PrimaLuna HP

I'd love to have one of those amps, especially with KT-150 tubes.
I'm sure it's wonderful.
 
Thus far, I am really impressed with this unit. I have had the PL Prolugue Two and then the Dialogue Two as well. Both nice little amps, but always felt they really needed more drive, transparency and dynamics with most average speakers. I bought mine with the EL34s as I have never had EL34s in the past and had always wanted to try them. I also already had a spare set of brand new KT-120s from when I had an ARC Ref 110. The really cool part is that with doubling the output power and updating the front end design and tubes, both Triode and Ultra linear modes sound great. In fact the KT-120s used in Triode mode sound amazing on piano music. This amplifier easily drives the Sonus Faber EVOs. I was a little concerned as the EVOs are supposedly harder to drive (86db) and average between 4-5 ohms for the vast majority of its range. Very impressive amplifier for the dough in my opinion.
 

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Jason...from the pics, looks like you have the EL34s in residence but clearly you've tried the KT-120s in there as well. Are the presentations noticeably different between the two tube types and how so if yes? Also, for the same tube type, how different is the Ultralinear vs. Triode modes? And, finally, I know this will be an unfair comparison but given that you just came from a Ref 10 pre and Ref 110 combo with the Olympica IIs vs. now the Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated with the SF Guarneri Evos, do you find that the "upgrade" in speaker is making more of a difference in your preferred SQ vs. the theoretically better amplification but driving "lesser" speakers? I know there are too many moving parts here but just curious how you would compare the two systems set-ups? I have always thought that the speaker is the component in the chain that has the biggest determinant factor on the sound produced so it begs the question, in a budget-constrained scenario, do you go for the best speakers first and upgrade the source and amplification over time (of course the best answer is to have equally capable components throughout the chain) but it just seems like you have reversed the equation going from ($40K at MSRP in amplification - Ref 10 pre and Ref 110 amp - driving $10K speakers - Olympica IIs - to a $4300 amp in the form of the PL Dialogue HP driving $20K speakers in the SF GEs) and you are in a good position to opine on this for us :D

Thanks.

PS: Do you know if the Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated accepts KT-150s and is this something you are going to try out? Thx again.
 
cmalak said:
Jason...from the pics, looks like you have the EL34s in residence but clearly you've tried the KT-120s in there as well. Are the presentations noticeably different between the two tube types and how so if yes? Also, for the same tube type, how different is the Ultralinear vs. Triode modes? And, finally, I know this will be an unfair comparison but given that you just came from a Ref 10 pre and Ref 110 combo with the Olympica IIs vs. now the Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated with the SF Guarneri Evos, do you find that the "upgrade" in speaker is making more of a difference in your preferred SQ vs. the theoretically better amplification but driving "lesser" speakers? I know there are too many moving parts here but just curious how you would compare the two systems set-ups? I have always thought that the speaker is the component in the chain that has the biggest determinant factor on the sound produced so it begs the question, in a budget-constrained scenario, do you go for the best speakers first and upgrade the source and amplification over time (of course the best answer is to have equally capable components throughout the chain) but it just seems like you have reversed the equation going from ($40K at MSRP in amplification - Ref 10 pre and Ref 110 amp - driving $10K speakers - Olympica IIs - to a $4300 amp in the form of the PL Dialogue HP driving $20K speakers in the SF GEs) and you are in a good position to opine on this for us :D

Thanks.

PS: Do you know if the Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated accepts KT-150s and is this something you are going to try out? Thx again.[/QUOTE

Hi Cyril,

I was wondering how long it would be until someone asked me this. There are a couple of reasons for the change. First, I love this hobby, am a little restless and thoroughly enjoy trying new stuff and combos.
The second reason is that my dedicated room is not large (11' X 15') with an angled wall on the right side just behind (3 ft) behind my listening position. ARC is known (accurately) for having a very large and spacious presentation. They make amazing gear. Period. Though in my room (especially paired with floor standers) it is simply overbearing. It sounds odd, but the sound picture doesn't make sense with the visual picture of my room. It is a weird mental conflict. Again, I know that sounds a little weird... Our home is three levels and I could have moved all my gear up to the main level - wife even said okay :-) but I have already placed room treatments all over my dedicated room and have dedicated 15 and 20 amp electric circuits installed for audio gear. Plus my listening room is MY room. It is not shared with my wife or our cats. So, basically I wanted to find something that was ideal for my existing space. I had good experience in the past with monitors I my space and really felt this was going to be the best way to go going forward. I've admired the EVOs for a couple of years and only recently realized they offered them in Walnut - which I very much like.

The main difference between Triode and UL is immediacy and a more midrange centered sound. You lose a little extension at both extremes, but the midrange is absolutely beautiful.
EL34 sound in General is basically like this to begin with, so Triode mode with EL34s is a bit too much of a good thing in my opinion. Triode with the KT-120s is glorious. Really a gorgeous, enjoyable sound. KT-120s are definitely the more accurate linear, accurate sounding tube, especially in UL mode.

Another thing of note, once I moved up to the ARC Ref 10/110 combo, there was a significant drop off in the amount and types of music I would actually listen to. Basically they are so high quality and revealing that unless the recording was exemplary, I wouldn't listen to it, I would only end up picking it apart, which kind of took the fun out of listening and actually made it stressful to me at times.

In my experience now, I would tell someone just starting out to buy the absolute best speakers they can afford and slowly upgrade the amplification chain as funds allow.

Sorry for the rambling post. Hopefully this makes some sense and answered your question.
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Jason...thx for getting back to me. It all makes sense. Enjoy the new system in good health. Absolutely gorgeous.

I am intrigued by the PL gear for its high value factor. I checked out that they have the Dialogue Premium HP amp in mono config and paired up with the Dialogue Premium Preamp, the combo can be had for $11K. The monos put out:

148 watts EL34 & KT88 (ultra-linear)
175 watts KT120 (ultra-linear)
85 watts EL34 (triode
89 watts KT88 (triode)
94 watts KT120 (triode)

The website says you can even put the KT-150s in there but does not give the output ratings with that tube type. Sounds like very high value offering to me.
 
Jason,

It makes perfect sense. I love the combo and I am so glad you are happy.
 
Thanks Jason !

I've got my eye on PrimaLuna for my second system in Georgia, I will be reading your thoughts as your new system breaks in.

:congrats:
 
cmalak said:
PS: Do you know if the Prima Luna Dialogue HP integrated accepts KT-150s and is this something you are going to try out? Thx again.
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The guys from Upscale told me, ProLogue Premium, DiaLogue, and DiaLogue Premium will take 150s; I gotta imagine the HPs fall into that camp.
 
Chris...on the Dialogue Premium HP Stereo/Mono page, it mentions you can use the KT-150 but I looked on the integrated page and it does not but if I were a betting man, I bet it should be able to also. Here's the link on the stereo//mono amps page: HP Power Amplifier

4th paragraph:

HP and how to get more power without more hassles

It's easy to get more power from a tube. Run it harder. You will see claims of up as high as 100 watts from a pair of KT120's. Initially, the customer is happy. More power is better, right? Well..talk to the same customer in a year. PrimaLuna amps are famous for long tube life, running cool, and being absolutely the easiest amplifier to own. What we've done is increase the power and output transformer size, designed and built a larger Adaptive AutoBias board, and all the supporting circuitry required to run eight power tubes instead of four. Doubling the power and increasing bass slam. Customers can use almost any tube on the market. And their new DiaLogue Premium HP can be shipped with EL-34's, Gold Lion KT88's, or Tung-sol KT120's. You can even use KT150's.
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Here's the state power ratings for Stereo and Mono amps with different tubes (but they don't list it out for KT-150)and Ultralinear vs. Triode:

Stereo:

72 watts x 2 EL34 & KT88(ultra-linear)
85 watts x 2 KT120 (ultra-linear)
42 watts x 2 EL34 & KT88(triode)
45 watts x 2 KT120 (triode)

Mono:

148 watts EL34 & KT88 (ultra-linear)
175 watts KT120 (ultra-linear)
85 watts EL34 (triode
89 watts KT88 (triode)
94 watts KT120 (triode)
 
Yes, to the best of my knowledge it can use KT-150s though Kevin mentioned it is a pretty tight fit due to the massive size of the KT-150s.
 
Not sure if I will try the KT-150s or not. Reviews have been very positive to be sure, though I don't really need anymore bass or any more smoothness in my current system. They are also ridiculously expensive IMO at $93 each.
 
Bavarian05 said:
Not sure if I will try the KT-150s or not. Reviews have been very positive to be sure, though I don't really need anymore bass or any more smoothness in my current system. They are also ridiculously expensive IMO at $93 each.
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Apparently I changed my mind...
 

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joeinid said:
So, how does it sound? Looks sweet!
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Hi Joe,

Really interesting tube. Not really anything I can compare it to. The closest analogy I can come up with is if you combined a EL34s mid band with a KT-120s bass, only the bass is bigger yet and more controlled. Cleaner bottom of note edges. The highs are similar to an EL34 but considerably more extended without any harshness. The dealer said the mids and highs are kind of like a 300B but I have never heard a 300B... The stage is bigger and the images seem to really be in the room compared to a KT-120 which in my opinion is no slouch in this department either. In the PL HP amp, you really get a sense of more power. This may not be a very good explanation, but in my fairly limited tube experience (only tried EL34, KT88, 6550 and KT-120) there really isn't anything that compares. Unique tube in my opinion.
if one has an amp that can utilize them, I would surely say give them a try. Pretty cool sound.
 
Hi Jason,

Makes sense. Thanks for your explanation. I am sure the PL HP amp is wonderful. I'll have to check one out. Maintenance looks soooo easy.
 
Bavarian05, thanks for posting your impressions of this amp. I currently have a Dialogue One with KT120s, and I really like it. But, I've moved to larger speakers, the B&W 803Ns. I have been thinking of moving up to the Dialogue HP, thinking it would be an overall better amp, plus it would have more power to "manhandle" the bass of these large speakers.

Since you had both a Dialogue and now a Dialogue HP, what do you think is the incremental improvement you hear as you've moved up in the PL line? The reality is that the HP is double the power... but also double the money. Is it anywhere near being doubly better than the Dialogue One/Two?
 
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