Preliminary Review: ARC Reference 6 vs. VAC Renaissance V

M

mulveling

Member
Joined
Nov 30, 2014
Messages
235
Swapping between high quality linestages is frustrating. In an absolute sense the sonic differences are small, but once your brain starts locking on to the varied nuances in the context of your personal system, they can feel huge, and often the "wins" don't pile up mostly in one unit or the other - i.e. you end up indecisive and frustrated for the choice! I've been enjoying the REF 6 for about 9 months - and along comes my dealer (not an ARC dealer) with a Renaissance V to lend. It's immediately apparent that these 2 preamps fall on opposite ends of the design spectrum.

VAC Renaissance V:

  • Motorized potentiometer volume control. Pure analog. Gives a nice feel for manual rotation, but offers less granular control from the remote when you're seated - not to mention, there's a complete lack of visual feedback as to where the knob is actually pointing. And try not to think too hard about how much better a premium Alps RK50 pot might sound (a $1000 part on its own, without custom motorization), because that's not what's inside this box.
  • Minimalist remote offers only volume up/down (analog) and mute buttons
  • Sleek and slim (height-wise) chassis; toggle switch front panel controls. There's no information to glean from the front display while seated, other than the glowing "VAC" logo. Looks great in the color of your choice (black or silver).
  • Simplified active circuitry, with only two 6922 tubes and Lundahl output transformers. If you've got a unit without the built-in phono stage, there's not much to look at under the hood! The previous Renaissance III had a lot more circuitry and tubes inside of it. Try not to think about cost margins, lol.
  • "Just enough" inputs and outputs. Maybe. You might run out, or wish for an extra phono input. If you do opt for the built-in phono stage, I can guarantee it will sound superb, as I truly believe VAC excels at these. I already own the full-blown Renaissance "Special Edition" phono stage, which I love to death!

Sound:​
This VAC is all about the midrange. Shockingly liquid and vivid, with stunning natural tonality and lifelike presence. Renders superb depth to the stereo image - truly holographic at times. Vocals and instruments can seem to pop out of the speakers into physical space. Bass and treble extension are quite good too, but the midrange is the real star. In short, the VAC sounds "beautiful". It takes the sonic attributes we primarily expect from a finely crafted tube linestage, and dials them up to 11. I've heard some describe Koetsu cartridges as "technicolor", and that's the same feeling I get here. But I'm not going to speculate on whether the VAC is actually editing the "truth" of the recording (whatever that is), or if its vivid midrange is actually a *more* accurate portrayal of the elusive beauty hidden in the grooves. I'm not an "ultimate truth" guy; I just want to experience the most immersively enjoyable sonic performance, over and over again. By the way, my girlfriend (an avid listener now) noticed the midrange's beauty right away, on the 1st track played, without any prompting from me.​


ARC Reference 6:

  • Digital volume control. The granularity of control offered by the remove, while seated, is amazing! Volume settings are 100% repeatable, so you can start to memorize the numbers for your favorite albums, as well as a "best" general level. I absolutely adore this volume control!
  • Full-function remote, including input switching, mono/stereo, etc. Love this!
  • Very imposing big box, with faceplate dominated by the digital display. Personally I think this new ARC design looks worlds better than their older preamps (ugh!).
  • The circuity is relatively complex, and certainly impressive to look at - quite a work of art in its own right. The amplification circuit features a sextet of high-tech 6H30pi tubes, and (I think?) some FETs in there too. Plus the two tubes in the PSU section. Lots of heat from this one! Definitely get the alternative metal top, so you don't have to look at any sagging heated acrylic while you listen.
  • "Lots" of inputs and outputs. If you need more than what's here, you're doing something wrong. No built-in phono stage option.

Sound:​
The REF 6 is perhaps more about balance - it has a crystalline, clean overall sound. The midrange isn't quite so vivaciously beautiful as with the VAC, but it's still a damn good midrange. Treble and bass extension are superb, slightly besting the VAC. There is indeed a slight feeling of forwardness to the REF 6; perhaps a minor elevation in the upper midrange to lower treble region, which can make it sound more aggressive than the VAC. But the REF 6 also excels at maintaining amazing control from top to bottom: perfectly smooth, grainless treble that never gets unduly harsh, and even stays clean at high volumes; powerful bass that remains perfectly defined and taut at all times. Some recordings will sound more restrained on the ARC, whereas the VAC will unleash its vivid midrange on the same material, with music flowing just beautifully. Soundstage, while very large on the REF 6, doesn't quite have the full 3D depth that the VAC can renderer (especially towards the back of the stage). But it's not all wins for the VAC. When the music gets really hard and heavy, the REF 6 cruises through like it's no more trouble to render than the simplest of audiophile (read: boring) arrangements - there's no softening of detail, no blurring, and no getting sloppy at any point. This is the preamp to get your adrenaline flowing with high-volume hard rock and heavy metal! Unfortunately I'm finding this kind of "adrenaline" material - which I love, and listen to quite a bit - to be the VAC's weakness. It simply softens up too much, falling a bit limp & flat, losing its usual vivacity of midrange and 3D image along the way.​


During my listening last night, I found myself aligning records according to which preamp played them better:

  • Edward Sharp and the Magnetic Zeros "Person A", Beatles "Magical Mystery Tour" (from the 2104 Mono box), and Gilbert O'Sullivan "Himself": These records were simply enthralling on the VAC, where the midrange really shines. The ARC sounds no less than excellent on these same albums, but I'm seriously digging the sheer beauty and new perspective of the VAC's performance here.
  • Avantasia "Metal Opera Pt 1" and Iced Earth "Incorruptible": These heavy metal albums, on the ARC, really get my adrenaline flowing every time. Not as much from the VAC, unfortunately. A lot of my most treasured music is from these guys, and I don't think I can give that up.
  • Klaatu "Klaatu": This is where it becomes a mixed bag, because this album has a mix of heavier parts, slower parts, and interesting effects. Each preamp gets its chances to shine. I'm declaring this one a draw for now.

So now I'm left a bit in limbo. The VAC has an addictive quality for the material it excels at. BUT I simply can't give up the ARC's rendering of fast & heavy music. The smart money would be for me to stick with the ARC. But in a dream world, I'd keep both and be able to (somehow) flip a switch between them on a per-record basis. Or perhaps, explore higher into the ARC and VAC preamp lines. I'll be doing some soul-searching over the next few days, and hopefully come to a decision that doesn't involve me keeping two very expensive preamps :P

Tweaks disclaimer: Over time, I've tweaked the REF 6 with the following: Herbie's tube dampers on all 6H30pi tubes. GE 6550 in place of the Sovtek 6550. Electro Harmonix gold-pin 6H30pi cryo-treated tubes (Uscape Audio) in place of the ARC supplied Sovteks. Audioquest Hurricane power cord. I have now a total of almost 1300 hours on the counter - I acquired this unit used, with a total of 520 hours at that time. The Renaissance V line stage is being used completely stock, with "just" an Audioquest NRG 1000 cord (not as good as the Hurricane). I don't know how many hours, but it should be run in by now. This unit has been furnished with the built-in phono stage, which I bypass.

Here's my full 2ch system, as I've been using it for these sessions:

  • Niagara 7000 power conditioner; Audioquest Hurricane power cords on every component except the Renaissance V
  • Rack: Critical Mass Systems Maxxum (3-shelf for turntable, phono stage, line stage)
  • Source (turntable only; no digital): Clearaudio Master Innovation table, Graham Phantom Supreme arm, Koetsu Coralstone Platinum cartridge
  • Bob's Devices Sky 40 step-up transformer (I prefer it to the Lundahls in my phono stage)
  • VAC Renaissance "Special Edition" phono stage. Stock tubes.
  • ARC Reference 6 or VAC Renaissance V line stage; Audioquest NRG 1000 cord on the Renaissance V, because the 20A Hurricane on the REF 6 doesn't fit
  • Rogue Apollo "Dark" tube monoblocks, stocked with my personal NOS "holy grail" small-signal tubes. Russian KT120 for power tubes.
  • Tannoy Canterbury GR speakers
  • Cables (all Audioquest): WEL Signature LP, Wild Blue Yonder RCA, WEL Signature XLR, Kilimanjaro speaker cables in a full double-biwire (total 9 AWG solid silver)

Older system pic that I need to update with a better one, but it does show the system very close to its present state:
T14D4Ei.png
 
Great write up by the way. I couldn’t disagree with you. Excellent system. Thanks for sharing and posting.
 
yes thanks for write up , also great you focussed on the control of the volume . it is so important to be precise and good control , especially when listening so some radio stations which insist on having adverts louder than the tracks so you have to adjust regularly

the vac does sound like an incredible amp though , one i would love to hear . when i had my arc ref 5se my wife also noticed how incredible it was and its the only bit of kit she didn`t want me to sell . the spooky realism of this pre makes your hair stand up so i can only imagine the ref 6 must be in another league
 
hifinutt said:
yes thanks for write up , also great you focussed on the control of the volume . it is so important to be precise and good control , especially when listening so some radio stations which insist on having adverts louder than the tracks so you have to adjust regularly

the vac does sound like an incredible amp though , one i would love to hear . when i had my arc ref 5se my wife also noticed how incredible it was and its the only bit of kit she didn`t want me to sell . the spooky realism of this pre makes your hair stand up so i can only imagine the ref 6 must be in another league
Click to expand...
Agreed - I wish VAC could focus more on this; they have yet to make a preamp with even a good precise indication of the current volume level, much less precise control. The bigger knobs on their top preamps at least have a couple of angular carvings, but for the Renaissance V, there's almost no chance to locate the tiny indent on the volume knob from your seated location. For now I've cut an "arrow" pointer from a sticker and pasted it on the knob, lol. But we also do a lot of in-the-dark listening, so I'd need a flashlight handy to even see the pointer. Here again ARC shines, with its dim-able digital displays. I get the all-analog philosophy of sticking to a motorized pot, but at least look into some circuitry to precisely read its current position as a digital number?

The REF 6 is indeed awesome. I have a local audiophile buddy who bought one and then raved endlessly about it - otherwise I wouldn't have considered an ARC preamp, as my dealer doesn't carry ARC (and was none too pleased seeing it suddenly appear in my system, heh). Part of me really wants to buy the Renaissance V, but I don't think there's any way I could let go of the REF 6 either.

Certainly, there is something special about the elevation in your system's performance when you upgrade to that next level of preamp. I love my system; so much great listening has been had with it so far, and this should continue for a long time - totally worth the (huge!) cash outlay for me.
 
Mulveling, do you know which brand 6922's are in the VAC? Might be able to tilt the sonics somewhat by a tube change.
As you have discovered with the ARC, tube rolling will influence the sound. Many great and different sounding 6dj8/6922/7308 tubes out there.
 
jadedavid said:
Mulveling, do you know which brand 6922's are in the VAC? Might be able to tilt the sonics somewhat by a tube change.
As you have discovered with the ARC, tube rolling will influence the sound. Many great and different sounding 6dj8/6922/7308 tubes out there.
Click to expand...
Yes, I'm a big tube roller and I've been considering that, but in my experience the sonic differences between these two preamps is still greater than what can be bridged by rolling. I also don't like to fight or try to change the "nature" of a component too much. These 2 preamps really are very different beasts. And I haven't peeked inside because I'd simply rather not open up a unit that I don't own - but VAC lists "Russian" 6922 on their site for replacement tubes, so I'm pretty sure what's in there.

Also in my experience, VAC tends to voice their amps very beautifully around the stock tubes, and I haven't found much joy in rolling their 12AX7 & 12AU7 tubes to my NOS collection (much to my chagrin) - this is in direct contrast to Rogue gear, for which I can effect some nice performance gains (their tube gear sounds fairly "solid state" with stock small signal tubes). But the 6922 is a funny tube, quality really matters, so there may in fact be improvements to be gleaned even in the VAC. I already have some nice gold-pin West German Siemens and gold-pin Holland Philips E88CC tubes.

There's also a "Special Edition" version of the Renaissance V, again a few $K more money (as with the phono stage), and to be honest the thought of the V SE model with some premium European 6922 and a Hurricane cord has me salivating a bit. But at that point, I definitely can't afford to keep both preamps - and wonder if even the hot-rodded VAC can satisfy my frequent need for hard & heavy metal? Would the volume control issues eventually drive me insane? Would my REF 6 loving friend disown me? :lol:
 
Same results in a short session last night - I'm swimming in music and totally in love with the VAC Renaissance V, until it hits choppy waters (heavy metal), and then I can't even make it through a side. It simply sounds far too slow and gets a bit sloppy in bass :( By the way, I listen to melodic and symphonic heavy metal like: Tobias Sammet's Avantasia (Metal Opera), Stratovarius, Iced Earth, Megadeth, old Metallica, Rage - not the screamy black/death metal stuff ;)

The 2ch system with REF 6 actually sounds an awful lot like my headphone system: Stax SR-009 and 009S headphones with a custom T2 amplifier. It too is ever so slightly forward, does a generally awesome job with all genres, and an amazing job with heavy metal. Never blurs edges, smooth details, or gets sloppy in bass no matter how hard & fast the music gets.

So this experiment is still equal parts fun and frustrating. Given one, I can probably live best with the REF 6 at this point, but man I'd really miss that beautiful VAC midrange coming through my Tannoys like I've never heard it before. I'll try some tweaking this weekend: I've avoided the Lundahl SUT in my VAC phono stage because it sounded to lean and bright with the REF 6, but hey maybe that's just what's needed with the Renaissance V? I can also swap the Mazda silver-plate 12AX7 in my Rogue amps for silver-plate 5751 - the latter is extremely fast and clean sounding, but also has been a bit too zingy up top when paired with the REF 6. Maybe there's a balance to be struck.

Mike - in your experience, do the higher-end VAC preamps (Signature, Master) start to solve the lack of "rock out"?
 
mulveling said:
Same results in a short session last night - I'm swimming in music and totally in love with the VAC Renaissance V, until it hits choppy waters (heavy metal), and then I can't even make it through a side. It simply sounds far too slow and gets a bit sloppy in bass :( By the way, I listen to melodic and symphonic heavy metal like: Tobias Sammet's Avantasia (Metal Opera), Stratovarius, Iced Earth, Megadeth, old Metallica, Rage - not the screamy black/death metal stuff ;)

The 2ch system with REF 6 actually sounds an awful lot like my headphone system: Stax SR-009 and 009S headphones with a custom T2 amplifier. It too is ever so slightly forward, does a generally awesome job with all genres, and an amazing job with heavy metal. Never blurs edges, smooth details, or gets sloppy in bass no matter how hard & fast the music gets.

So this experiment is still equal parts fun and frustrating. Given one, I can probably live best with the REF 6 at this point, but man I'd really miss that beautiful VAC midrange coming through my Tannoys like I've never heard it before. I'll try some tweaking this weekend: I've avoided the Lundahl SUT in my VAC phono stage because it sounded to lean and bright with the REF 6, but hey maybe that's just what's needed with the Renaissance V? I can also swap the Mazda silver-plate 12AX7 in my Rogue amps for silver-plate 5751 - the latter is extremely fast and clean sounding, but also has been a bit too zingy up top when paired with the REF 6. Maybe there's a balance to be struck.

Mike - in your experience, do the higher-end VAC preamps (Signature, Master) start to solve the lack of "rock out"?
Click to expand...

No. They all have the same sonic signature and they’re perfect for my type of music. I’m not playing heavy metal, other than the occasional AC/DC for fun. VAC is voiced with a lot of Jazz, female vocals, classical, etc. I don’t ever see Kevin banging out to some Megadeath.

90591f1243e4b9e10ff8e98b2aef7a22.jpg


Suggestion: throw a Winged-C or NOS 6550 (RCA, Mullard, etc) in the REF6. Will give you some midrange warmth while retaining the dynamics and bass control. Give any new 6550 about 20 hours to break in.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
hifinutt said:
yes thanks for write up , also great you focussed on the control of the volume . it is so important to be precise and good control , especially when listening so some radio stations which insist on having adverts louder than the tracks so you have to adjust regularly

the vac does sound like an incredible amp though , one i would love to hear . when i had my arc ref 5se my wife also noticed how incredible it was and its the only bit of kit she didn`t want me to sell . the spooky realism of this pre makes your hair stand up so i can only imagine the ref 6 must be in another league
Click to expand...

It is, but the Ref 5SE is still a great pre. I owned the Ref 5SE and replaced it with the Ref 6. I did a preliminary review of the Ref 6 when it first came out for PF and I compared the differences between the Ref 5SE and the Ref 6.
 
Mike said:
No. They all have the same sonic signature and they’re perfect for my type of music. I’m not playing heavy metal, other than the occasional AC/DC for fun. VAC is voiced with a lot of Jazz, female vocals, classical, etc. I don’t ever see Kevin banging out to some Megadeath.

Suggestion: throw a Winged-C or NOS 6550 (RCA, Mullard, etc) in the REF6. Will give you some midrange warmth while retaining the dynamics and bass control. Give any new 6550 about 20 hours to break in.
Click to expand...
Great info - thanks Mike! If only these were two phono stages, it would be far easier to keep both and switch on the fly between them (since I already have 2 arms, with a 3rd waiting in the wings). :lol:
 
Bit of a rough night for the VAC Renaissance preamp last night - I wanted to listen to harder stuff, and even on softer stuff the ARC was pretty much nailing it. I think it's more probable I'll stick with the REF 6 at this point. But I'd like to mention that I didn't find any music genre tradeoffs with the Renaissance phono stage (I've had both the standard and now Special Editions) - I think it's an absolutely amazing phono stage for all genres, and I love mine!
 
Very interesting read. I wish I could write like that.

Right now I have a Octave pre and power amp on loan. I think the pre amp would drive you crazy. Remote control has only two buttons up and down for volume. No real indication on the volume knob. The pre amp as configured now only has 2 inputs with a max of 3 and switching inputs takes 30 seconds.
 
Mordante said:
Very interesting read. I wish I could write like that.

Right now I have a Octave pre and power amp on loan. I think the pre amp would drive you crazy. Remote control has only two buttons up and down for volume. No real indication on the volume knob. The pre amp as configured now only has 2 inputs with a max of 3 and switching inputs takes 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

That’s insane. Seriously, you have to wonder what some of these companies are thinking.
 
mulveling said:
Same results in a short session last night - I'm swimming in music and totally in love with the VAC Renaissance V, until it hits choppy waters (heavy metal), and then I can't even make it through a side. It simply sounds far too slow and gets a bit sloppy in bass [emoji20] By the way, I listen to melodic and symphonic heavy metal like: Tobias Sammet's Avantasia (Metal Opera), Stratovarius, Iced Earth, Megadeth, old Metallica, Rage - not the screamy black/death metal stuff [emoji6]

The 2ch system with REF 6 actually sounds an awful lot like my headphone system: Stax SR-009 and 009S headphones with a custom T2 amplifier. It too is ever so slightly forward, does a generally awesome job with all genres, and an amazing job with heavy metal. Never blurs edges, smooth details, or gets sloppy in bass no matter how hard & fast the music gets.

So this experiment is still equal parts fun and frustrating. Given one, I can probably live best with the REF 6 at this point, but man I'd really miss that beautiful VAC midrange coming through my Tannoys like I've never heard it before. I'll try some tweaking this weekend: I've avoided the Lundahl SUT in my VAC phono stage because it sounded to lean and bright with the REF 6, but hey maybe that's just what's needed with the Renaissance V? I can also swap the Mazda silver-plate 12AX7 in my Rogue amps for silver-plate 5751 - the latter is extremely fast and clean sounding, but also has been a bit too zingy up top when paired with the REF 6. Maybe there's a balance to be struck.

Mike - in your experience, do the higher-end VAC preamps (Signature, Master) start to solve the lack of "rock out"?
Click to expand...

Were you able to score a NOS Tung-Sol 6550 to try? The RCA 6550 is the same damn tube (made by Tung-Sol for RCA). Let me know if you need a picture of the box. Just remember, these old tube still need a good 10-30 hours to break in.
 
Mike,
Not yet on the RCA/Tung-Sol 6550, but I look forward to the potential upgrade soon. I was disappointed to not find any on the tubeworld express site, which I thought would be an easy place to find a strong single. I'm already running the GE 6550 (I think late 70s? white label).

You got any opinions on the 1970s/80s 6H30 DR "super tubes" in the REF 6? Sourcing a good single for the power supply doesn't seem too bad, but sourcing a matched sextet for the amplification circuitry is a much tougher ask!

I think I'm going to stay quite happy with the combination of REF 6 preamp and Renaissance SE phono stage.
 
Mike said:
That’s insane. Seriously, you have to wonder what some of these companies are thinking.
Click to expand...

To be honest I really don't mind. I'm willing to sacrifice some luxury for good sound. One of the best pre-amps I've heard was a First Sound pre amp not so user friendly but a great sound.
 
"They all have the same sonic signature and they’re perfect for my type of music. I’m not playing heavy metal, other than the occasional AC/DC for fun. VAC is voiced with a lot of Jazz, female vocals, classical, etc. I don’t ever see Kevin banging out to some Megadeath."


This is valuable info to have...Thanks. I don't play Megadeth ever or 3 Chord AC/DC monotonous rock too much BUT its good to know I can scratch VAC off the list of components to try for Rock N Roll. Please let me know what other Brands I can remove from the "audition" list because they cant rock out. You will save me a small fortune in experimentation!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top