PFO Products of the Year

Thanks for the link Myles.

I was a little miffed at the section under the Emotiva amp. The paragraph under the pic basically skewers the product, and then the review link paints a whole other story.

I also like the review of the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.1 Line Stage since you may remember Bob brought my Counterpoint amp back to life when I got it.
 
Shadowfax said:
Thanks for the link Myles.

I was a little miffed at the section under the Emotiva amp. The paragraph under the pic basically skewers the product, and then the review link paints a whole other story.

I also like the review of the Backert Labs Rhythm 1.1 Line Stage since you may remember Bob brought my Counterpoint amp back to life when I got it.
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Really? Skewered? That's certainly not how I read it. Please reread it again especially with an eye toward someone who doesn't have a fortune to spend on audio equipment.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Really? Skewered? That's certainly not how I read it. Please reread it again especially with an eye toward someone who doesn't have a fortune to spend on audio equipment.
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I must be reading it wrong. He is saying that the XPA-1L is so much better than the XP2 and he would be getting rid of the XP2. Then in the review, the XP2 is all the rave. What am I missing?
 
No I read it as Tom simply couldn't the afford the Emotiva amp and was rationalizing to get out of buying it. No ulterior or subliminal messages involved.
 
The best of the best awards? Or the best of the year - or the best out of the 4 things the reviewer reviewed that year? I like a lot of the list mind you but as with Stereophile I always have issues with these lists. Saying something is the best of the year implies that the reviewer has heard EVERY single piece of gear on the planet at that price range. Laughable. It's the best thing the particular reviewer heard that year. And likely taking what he heard at shows to "count" in that grouping (as Stereophile does with their lists).

I take a bit more issue with Stereophile and TAS because the former is based on a point per vote system. So one speaker may be heard by only 4 reviewers - all four could give it first place votes calling it the greatest speaker of the year - while say my KEF LS-50 could have 12 reviewers hear it and all of them give it 3rd place votes - no one calls it the greatest of the year but it wins product of the year and class A because the total number of points is higher. Indeed, Art Dudley bought a Devore speaker for $12,000 that ranks as class B while another Devore at $3,000 is class A. So Art blowing $9,000 on a worse speaker has some implications.

Again - no problem with lists or awards or whatever, but it's the implications and wording of a lot of it that kinda bugs me. And I own Stereophile"s "2013 Product of the Year" -- it's the fourth best Standmount I own!!! So Product of the year when it's the 4th best one that I own is kind of laughable to me. But hey it's all good advertising for the manufacturers I suppose and that's who pays the bills.

I think it would be better for reviewers to simply list their system and their "dream system" so you know what they spend their own money on (I know it doesn't apply to TAS) and system two the spare no expense dream system.
 
A POTY list is pretty self explanatory for the same reason you don't begin every sentence with I (though many reviewers who don't have a clue about writing do that and it drives me insane). The reader knows who is speaking. Not to mention, it only counts if the product is heard in the reviewer's system.
 
RichardAusten said:
Art Dudley bought a Devore speaker for $12,000 that ranks as class B while another Devore at $3,000 is class A. So Art blowing $9,000 on a worse speaker has some implications.
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I think price may have a lot to do with the above ranking.

Best of lists aren't meant to be all inclusive, but rather products that standout in that year. I can think of one 11 year old product that still kicks the heck out of a lot of new products. [emoji6]

ImageUploadedByTapatalk1418865259.213215.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RichardAusten-You need to tone down the condescension just a tad. With regards to PFO, reviewers nominate what they feel are the best three components they have reviewed during the year-nothing more and nothing less. It doesn't mean they are the three best components on the face of the earth. If the components you love and hold in high esteem don't make the list, it's not a reflection of your choices. Maybe no reviewers reviewed the components you have during the year for whatever publication they write for. You need to put things in their proper context.
 
Mike said:
I think price may have a lot to do with the above ranking.
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Not according to John Atkinson - all Class A is better than all Class B regardless of price. Which is why Art's purchases makes no sense to me. Well it does make sense - there is the "magazine's selection" and the reviewer's selection. I'm sorry what I wrote seemed curt towards PFO when I actually found what they do a lot more sensible and reading it again it's the best of the year out of what they heard - fair enough I suppose IF you are a regular reader. I mean if you only reviewed four new items over 1 full year and you chose 1 as being the best - I still wonder about covering enough gear to make the selection noteworthy. It's like watching 10 movies all year and choosing one as "The best picture of 2014" when 450 movies came out. You kinda might of missed some. Still I like that EACH reviewer makes a choice so you know where each one stands. I also like the fact that Bob Neil who is now a dealer only recommended music so no conflict of interest.
 
dlb2 said:
Just an fyi... The class A Devores list for $8400.00, not 3k.

Sent from my HTC One.
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Art bought he O/96 at $12,000 (Class B)

Stereophile Class A:
Devore 0/93 ($8400)
Devore Gibbon 3XL ($3,700).

KEF LS-50 ($1500) Class A. According to JA himself - all class A products are better than the best class B product.

It's their system not mine - I just find it kind of funny over the obvious conflict between what the reviewer's give top place to and what they actually buy. I remember years back when the Sugden A21A was in a blind level match shootout against a whole slew of integrated amps. They chose a Roksan Kandy as the winner of the shootout awarding it their 5 star editor choice deal BUT if people bothered to read beyond the winner they actually said that the Sugden easily won on sound quality but it was only 20 watts, didn't have enough features or a remote etc etc so they awarded the 125 watt per channel but worse sounding amp.

I mean none of this probably matters to most regular posters who are experienced and would not be buying stuff based on recommended component listings. It's just a fun bit head scratching is all.
 
mep said:
RichardAusten-You need to tone down the condescension just a tad. With regards to PFO, reviewers nominate what they feel are the best three components they have reviewed during the year-nothing more and nothing less. It doesn't mean they are the three best components on the face of the earth. If the components you love and hold in high esteem don't make the list, it's not a reflection of your choices. Maybe no reviewers reviewed the components you have during the year for whatever publication they write for. You need to put things in their proper context.
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I'm not trying to attack them but words influence people and while regular readers of the magazine and experienced audiophiles will likely not be swayed - less experienced people could be swayed. Hey we're reviewers and part of it is to sway people to our way of thinking.

But here is their title "The 11th Annual Positive Feedback Writers' Choice Awards for 2014 - The Best of the Best!"

This implies that a large number of gear was sampled/auditoned critically and they chose the best of the best of it. When you say XYZ is best it doesn't imply anything but this is the BEST XYZ on the market. Does it mean "out of the things that just came out that year?" "The best out of the three things the reviewer happened to audition?"

Listen I have no dog in the hunt. I mean I own LS-50 - "Stereophile Product of the Year" and my AN E was chosen as "Loudspeaker of the Year" by Hi-fi News Asia and I'm pretty sure my Senn HD600s were chosen by someone as being headphone of the year. I guess I just feel the industry is a little too small BUT has very very very many products to be be putting out lists.

PFO is very good to quickly explain that each reviewer is making his/her own list of essentially favorite items over the year. I was a bit tired when I first read it and the "Best of the Best" kind of went in me like sour milk.
 
Price isn't what determines a ranking, it is how well it performs. My $2200 Bryston BDP-1 is ranked A+ in digital players, along with $100,000 gear. It doesn't mean that is equal to or better than the other gear, just that it works great for what it does compared to similar gear. Obviously, they can't review and rank everything, so don't worry about it. As the saying goes, "Nobody likes their baby being called ugly."


2014 Recommended Components Fall Edition How to Use the Listings
Sidebar: How to Use the Listings

The classes each cover a wide range of performance. Carefully read our descriptions here, the original reviews, and (heaven forbid) reviews in other magazines to put together a short list of components to choose from. Evaluate your room, your source material and front-end(s), your speakers, and your tastes. With luck, you may come up with a selection to audition at your favorite dealer(s). "Recommended Components" will not tell you what to buy any more than Consumer Reports would presume to tell you whom to marry!

Class A: Best attainable sound for a component of its kind, almost without practical considerations; "the least musical compromise." A Class A system is one for which you don't have to make a leap of faith to believe that you're hearing the real thing. With Super Audio CD, DVD-Audio, and Hi-Rez PCM and DSD files now available, we have created a new Class, A+, for the best performance in those digital categories. Class A now represents the best that can be obtained from the conventional 16/44.1 CD medium. We also created Class A+ categories for turntables and phono preamps, to recognize the achievements of the Continuum Caliburn and Boulder 2008, respectively.

Class B: The next best thing to the very best sound reproduction; Class B components generally cost less than those in Class A, but most Class B components are still quite expensive.

Class C: Somewhat lower-fi sound, but far more musically natural than average home-component high fidelity; products in this class are of high quality but still affordable.

Class D: Satisfying musical sound, but these components are either of significantly lower fidelity than the best available, or exhibit major compromises in performance—limited dynamic range, for example. Bear in mind that appearance in Class D still means that we recommend this product—it's possible to put together a musically satisfying system exclusively from Class D components.

Class E: Applying to "Loudspeakers," these are entry-level products.

Class K: "Keep your eye on this product." Class K is for components that we have not reviewed (or have not finished testing), but that we have reason to believe may be excellent performers. We are not actually recommending these components, only suggesting you give them a listen. Though the report has yet to be published in certain cases, the reviewer and editor sometimes feel confident enough that the reviewer's opinion is sufficiently well formed to include what otherwise would be an entry in one of the other classes, marked (NR).


2014 Recommended Components Fall Edition How to Use the Listings | Stereophile.com
 
Q
RichardAusten said:
I'm not trying to attack them but words influence people and while regular readers of the magazine and experienced audiophiles will likely not be swayed - less experienced people could be swayed. Hey we're reviewers and part of it is to sway people to our way of thinking.

But here is their title "The 11th Annual Positive Feedback Writers' Choice Awards for 2014 - The Best of the Best!"

This implies that a large number of gear was sampled/auditoned critically and they chose the best of the best of it. When you say XYZ is best it doesn't imply anything but this is the BEST XYZ on the market. Does it mean "out of the things that just came out that year?" "The best out of the three things the reviewer happened to audition?"

Listen I have no dog in the hunt. I mean I own LS-50 - "Stereophile Product of the Year" and my AN E was chosen as "Loudspeaker of the Year" by Hi-fi News Asia and I'm pretty sure my Senn HD600s were chosen by someone as being headphone of the year. I guess I just feel the industry is a little too small BUT has very very very many products to be be putting out lists.

PFO is very good to quickly explain that each reviewer is making his/her own list of essentially favorite items over the year. I was a bit tired when I first read it and the "Best of the Best" kind of went in me like sour milk.
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Richard start your own thread if you have a bone to pick with Stereophile. You are completely OT and polluting the thread that I started about PFO.
 
Thanks for the link Myles

I really don't get to overly excited with these "Best Of's, since I can't afford 80% of them. I personally do like to see measurements, when available along with these 'Best Of' selections too use as a tool for possible purchases at a later date budget permitting of course.

In a lot of these "test or listening sessions', normally the readers doesn't know about the room the reviewer is using which means he likes that equipment "Best" in his environment, which also could indicate it might not work that good in yours, but it's another tool as I noted above.

I have personally before this list ever came out had the Rogue products noted and the Schiit products in my home. Nice to see some of my choices were actually liked by someone else.
 
CPP said:
Thanks for the link Myles

I really don't get to overly excited with these "Best Of's, since I can't afford 80% of them. I personally do like to see measurements, when available along with these 'Best Of' selections too use as a tool for possible purchases at a later date budget permitting of course.

In a lot of these "test or listening sessions', normally the readers doesn't know about the room the reviewer is using which means he likes that equipment "Best" in his environment, which also could indicate it might not work that good in yours, but it's another tool as I noted above.

I have personally before this list ever came out had the Rogue products noted and the Schiit products in my home. Nice to see some of my choices were actually liked by someone else.
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Thanks for your feedback Chris. I like to think though there's a little bit of something for everybody in the choices. But as you say, there's no substitute for listening in one's system (most PFO reviewer's systems are up on the magazine's website). Too often, and it seems lately that everyone is in a hurry to be the first to post something on the net, that adage goes by the wayside. But that is getting harder and harder to do without purchasing.
 
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