Pass X1 preamp

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Mechnutt

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I received my X1 today and have been listening to it for about 1 hour or so. Here's the short story-

Do I like it-yes, Am I a little disappointed-yes. Does it sound better than my Van Alstine Ultra Plus hybrid tube preamp- In some ways yes and other ways no!

Here is the long story- I recently upgraded from an Parasound A21 amp to a Pass X250. I found the Pass to sound better but at the expense of some resolution on strings, horns and piano. So I decided to pick up a used X1 preamp thinking that I would gain some of this back and that there would be some synergy with the X250. Well I did get back some of the inner detail and the sound is more liquid, transparent with a slightly wider sound stage. However, the X1 is not as musical. It smooths things over like the X250 and the music has lost some of its texture. And even though there is a slightly wider sound stage, the spacing between instruments is not as great as with the Van Alstine if that makes sense. Bass is similar with the VA being a little tighter. Vocals are smoother with the X1 but more real with the VA. On one song that I was listening too, finger snaps were more real and more forward with the VA. The X1 has a tube like sound and a warmer sound but it is laid back. Treble sounds more realistic with the X1 however.

I have heard that the X1 needs to be powered on for 24hrs to reach its peak sound. I will reassess the sound in 24hrs and do some tube rolling in my Van Alstine Ultra Plus hybrid DAC. I have a feeling that I will have a dilemma. Do I keep the X1 with its smooth, liquid airy sound or the Van Alstine with its more visceral not as refined, but more musical sound? Hearing the X1 makes me appreciate the VA preamp a liitle more as it cost $1799 about 4 years ago and then I added another $450 in upgrades through Van Alstine. It certainly can compete with the $6000 X1 although it is an older model and probably is a bit long in the tooth.

Other issue's with the Pass. The remote can be used as a weapon. It is wide as a brick and feels like it weighs about 2 pounds. The user interface is odd and you have to scroll through a menu to get the mute to work and the remote is just too big. Lastly, the volume control knob is odd looking, although the VA preamp won't win a beauty contest either as it has that 1970's heath kit look as all the VA gear still has.
 
Hi, I have the X1 also. You're going to want to let it stay plugged in for 48 hours minimum before "passing" judgment.
I've heard other preamps that might do this or that a bit better - including the XP-10 - but the X1 has excellent synergy with the XA30.5 and my DeVore Nines, and I'm not ready to move on just yet.
 
While I like the sound of the X1, I miss the midrange and slight warmth of tubes. Yesterday I took home (on Loan) the new all tube version of the FET Van Alstine preamp to compare and review for Mr. Frank Van Alstine. I live 3 minutes from him and have done reviews for him before. So far the FET has a wider sound stage and has a fuller midrange with better texture without losing transparency or air. The X1 has a little more resolution and slightly tighter bass but not deeper. But the FET is just as musical and dynamic as the X1. I feel that cymbals are more real with more air than the X1 but the difference is not dramatic. The FET is a great buy at just under $2K and compares well to the X1. The X1 is more accurate but the FET is more pleasing to listen too.

I guess I just expected more from the X1 since it sold for $6K new and some reviewers stated it was the best preamp that they have heard in their systems.
I will keep the X1 for now but ultimately I will look for a used BAT, CJ 17LS or ARC LS25 or 26. I could upgrade my current Van Alstine Ultra Plus preamp to a FET but I want XLR's to take advantage of the X250.
 
Speaking of sweethearts, the whole Pass Labs staff are great.

I just got my X1 back after requesting a check up and gain reduction, and they returned it with a beefed up power supply, with enough capacitance to run both the X1 plus other units like the Xono and XVR simultaneously... but since I don't have any other two-chassis product, the lil ole X1 has the juice all to itself. Which has translated to a bit more speed and transient snap, bigger (huge) soundstage, increased bass texture, and some increased detail retrieval.

Not bad support for a 10+ year old "discontinued" product, I'd say!
 
Yes, there is something about tube midrange, isn't there? It's really about synergy in the long run, no absolutes.

I did move from an all-tube system to an all-Pass system, and while I don't have that midrange magic, the Pass gear brings other goodies to the table, like lower noise floor, better detail retrieval balanced with smoothness and linear response. Oh and the bass.

I do agree that the treble extension could be better, but at the same time, you never go into cold/harsh territory with the X1, and the tweeters on the DeVores are very extended, so this is a possibility that I have to watch out for. Since the DeVores tend to the lean side, the fuller bass of the X1 is a nice complement to the XA30.5 slight midrange-forward presentation.

Since my speakers are an easier load on amps, I have had tube amps with the X1, and it has sounded magical, but ultimately, I'm finding fewer compromises in my current setup.
 
I am sure that the X1 would be a good match with a tube amp. I like the combination of tubes and SS. I recently bought a used X250 amp and the X1 which is an upgrade from my Parasound Halo A21 amp and my Van Alstine Ultra PLus Hybrid tube preamp. I still have tubes in the chain with my Van Alstine Hybrid tube DAC. With some tube rolling in my DAC with an NOS RCA Clear top 6FQ7/6CG7 with out the center shield, I was able to get back some of that tube midrange but the bass can be a little overwhelming on bass heavy music. I tried about 10 different 6CG7's in the DAC before I found one that would give me back some of that tube midrange.
 
watercourse said:
Yes, there is something about tube midrange, isn't there? It's really about synergy in the long run, no absolutes.

I did move from an all-tube system to an all-Pass system, and while I don't have that midrange magic, the Pass gear brings other goodies to the table, like lower noise floor, better detail retrieval balanced with smoothness and linear response. Oh and the bass.

I do agree that the treble extension could be better, but at the same time, you never go into cold/harsh territory with the X1, and the tweeters on the DeVores are very extended, so this is a possibility that I have to watch out for. Since the DeVores tend to the lean side, the fuller bass of the X1 is a nice complement to the XA30.5 slight midrange-forward presentation.

Since my speakers are an easier load on amps, I have had tube amps with the X1, and it has sounded magical, but ultimately, I'm finding fewer compromises in my current setup.
Click to expand...

I too switched from tubes into Pass and concur with your statements. I thoroughly enjoyed my Conrad Johnson tube gear, I had both tube preamp and monoblocks. I really wasn't looking to change, it was one of those putting something new in the system causing a big chain effect. I had Krell before CJ, I find the Pass a nice spot between the prior two extremes and I personally am able to better enjoy a wider variety of my music collection. Maybe it's using the XP10 or my speakers but highs are perfect to my ears and piano rings crystal clear. There are so many variables that can effect our response though.
 
I have the XP10 in house to compare with the X1 right now. I agree that after it had burned in, the highs are very extended and clean. Noise floor is phenomenal, which allows amazing 3D soundstaging and the best low level performance I've had. Bass is punchy, and the system is dazzlingly high resolution.
The pairing with the XA30.5 and Devores walk on the lean side however, a bit too much for my taste. Not a knock on the XP10 though, in a different room with different speakers the pairing would likely be just perfection.
 
watercourse said:
I have the XP10 in house to compare with the X1 right now. I agree that after it had burned in, the highs are very extended and clean. Noise floor is phenomenal, which allows amazing 3D soundstaging and the best low level performance I've had. Bass is punchy, and the system is dazzlingly high resolution.
The pairing with the XA30.5 and Devores walk on the lean side however, a bit too much for my taste. Not a knock on the XP10 though, in a different room with different speakers the pairing would likely be just perfection.
Click to expand...

Are you attributing the leanness to the XP-10? That's a very interesting observation. I'd love to hear an X1 and compare it to a ARC LS17SE or a BAT. I might stop by BAT tomorrow and see if they have a loaner program.
 
Jack,
I wouldn't say the XP10 is lean per se, it's the combo with amp and speakers. And my preferences. To me, a fuller sound - even if it loses some top end energy and isn't as detailed - is preferable to a fast, detailed sound that doesn't "bloom".
Likely the best way to describe the XP10 is that it is more transparent to the source. During the down time of waiting for my X1 to be tweaked, I was able to reacquaint myself with the Bel Canto DAC3 by directly driving the amp sans preamp. Between the XP10 and X1, the XP10 is more transparent, adding a bit of smoothness and depth to the BCD's sound, but pretty much giving an honest portrayal.
The X1 has much more body, weight, and greater tonal color - but some might say slower and more colored.
Since all of this discussion is synergy- and preference-related, I'd suggest giving both a listen before assuming how they would sound in your system.
HTH!
 
WC, I find in interesting that you find the X1 full. I find it a little thin in the midrange. I think that the X250 plays a role in that. From what I have read is that the 0.5 series X amps have a nice midrange and more tube sound.
 
Mechnutt: First a warning that this posting is very dense and maybe too long. But possibly useful to you.

A very good friend had the X1 and X250, with DIY speakers. I didn't get the impression in his system that the mids were thin at all. In fact, at the time I heard his setup, I had been running an all-tube system and switching between a Class D amp and SET monos or an EL84 push-pull. My pre was a Juicy Music Peach with 6H30 supertubes.

After I heard his X1/X250, I thought, "I gotta have that midrange!" Actually, in his system, the X1/X250 combo was very linear, detailed, yet organic. In retrospect, I wanted more linearity. So my first Pass setup was the X1/X150.5, which I had for about two years.

Having heard his system and mine over a few years, the X250 did sound more "SS" to me than the X150.5 I had, meaning that the X.5 was warmer. However, I would not say that the X.5 amp is tubey at all. It is very neutral, not warm, not overly smooth, not SS, not tube. Probably more linear and neutral than the XA series. But check out the next paragraph.

After a few years with the X150.5, I ended up longing for more of the midrange that tubes bring. Although the X150.5 was very linear, I perceived the mids to be recessed, probably in relation to tube amps. And maybe given the vast superiority in freq extension that the Pass amps provide compared to the tube amps. If you have tube amps as references, you might be experiencing what I did recently, which led me to start seeking out an XA.5 amp.

The XA30.5 does have slightly more prominent mids, better microdynamics, fuller upper/mid bass than the X150.5, and more texture and tonality overall. In trade, the X150.5 has better macrodynamics, and better bass control and treble extension, as well as the linearity and neutrality I mentioned earlier. You might be better served with an XA.5 amp is my guess?

But back to the X1. The X1 had much better mids than the Peach with every amp I had on hand, and the Peach is an excellent pre. I had the Dodd battery preamp prior to that, running 6922s, which was handily beaten by the Peach for all those things that we enjoy tube preamps for (texture, warmth, ease, refinement). The Peach was a little faster than the X1, but this is because of its very simple SET circuit. In every other way, I felt the X1 was an improvement. I don't think I've ever felt the X1 was lacking midrange body, even prior to the PS performance-enhancing update.

Have you paired up the X1 with the other amps you have in your sig? If so, is this how you are exploring the character of the X1?
 
I think that my problem with the X1 is that I have been comparing it to my Hybrid Tube preamp which has a fuller midrange. And let me reiterate, I like the X1 put it did not live up to expectations. I guess I just prefer a tube preamp. My comment about the X0.5 amps being more tubey is just from the pro-reviews that I have read. I have never heard one.

I plan on trying the X1 with both my A21 and CDA254 amp's.

For now I will keep the X1 until I can find a good deal on a used BAT.
 
Yup, the best way to nail down whether you like the X1 or not is to pair it up with other amps. If it's still not giving you what you want, I'd say it's time to move on.
 
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