The Int 60 is 30+ Watts class a so your speakers will be 100 dB in class a if they are average. The preamp section has adjustable gain if you need it. It does weigh more with better heat sinking and more power supply. We can't quite get 60 stereo Watts into a mono package yet but Desmond did get the meter.
Pass INT-60 & INT-250 Integrated Amps
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Thanks for joining Wayne. Great to see you here. I love my Pass gear too!
Myles B. Astor
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Hi Wayne!
MDP
Behavior Moderator (be nice police!)
Welcome to AS Wayne !!
Pass gear is great stuff.
Pass gear is great stuff.
The new INT-60 will be $9000 MSRP
(note, the new INT-250 will be $12,000 MSRP).
Audioseduction
Active member
Welcome Wayne! I've spoken to you a few times over the phone in the past. Pass is the gear for me!
Next week I will have an opportunity for a 2 wk home audition for one of these integrateds, to see if I want to replace my INT-150. I'm leaning towards the INT-60, which even though it has a little less power than my current amp actually has more gain (as does the INT-250, of course) and I'm not sure I need the extra power. Remember the INT-60's amp section is basically the XA-30.8. Which one should I choose?
a.wayne
Well-known member
Vote for the INT-250
The Most power , dynamic compression thingy ............
The 150 clips at 245 watts into 4 ohms , your speakers are rated at 90db/2.83v@6ohm/M or 88db when compared to nominal 8 ohm speaker. If your listening distance is 4 M then figure on 79db/2.83v without room gain, you will need all 250 and more for clean dynamic passages.
looking at the graph from the bench test , the sweet spot is actually 100 watts RMS , IME this is the min power i would ( INT-150) recommend for your setup , cant see how going to a smaller amp would be beneficial ....
Regards...
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I vote for the INT-60.
FWIW, Desmond Harrington last week at THE Show suggested the INT-60 for my speakers and room size (about 3200-3300 cubic feet). The INT-60 should have about 100 watts "peak power" (probably a bit more before clipping) into 6 ohms. Until I spoke with Desmond I was leaning toward the 250, but now I'm reconsidering.
a.wayne
Well-known member
I'm sure you will be able to decide when you try it, how far do you sit from the speakers? You might find this interesting ...
or not ..
Bob Cordell :
Most amplifiers have dynamic headroom of 0.5 to 3 dB. The PAPD will quickly give you an idea of this. When you just clip the amplifier you are using, you'll see the dynamic headroom power displayed. Compare this to the rated continuous sinewave power and you get a dB ratio that represents the dynamic headroom capability of the amplifier on real music.
A variety of music was used for this demonstration, but the musical cut with the highest crest factor we have found so far is Rickie Lee Jones' "Ghetto of my Mind" on her Flying Cowboys CD. Play this cut at even remotely realistic levels and monitor it with the Peak/Average Power Display and you will re-think how much power your amplifier needs to have. Of course, most music (unfortunately) is not this "bad" because of compression often added in the recoding process for the primary target market: car CD players and boom boxes.
This demonstration was a real "Wow" for the attendees. The Rickie Lee Jones (RLJ) cut was played at realistic, but certainly not unpleasant, levels in the relatively small hotel exhibit room on speakers with an estimated sensitivity of about 89 dB. The average power typically read 1-2 Watts, while the power on peaks often topped 250 Watts (the power display monitored only one channel, so these numbers should be interpreted as Watts per channel). On this cut, most peaks occurred with an aggressive "thwack" to a snare drum positioned dead center.
While it is true that the RLJ track has an unusually large dynamic range, this data still suggests that many listeners may be clipping their amplifiers more often than they think. This may especially be the case for those with tube amplifiers who are not using extraordinarily efficient speakers. The amount of clipping, and the way in which amplifiers handle clipping, may account for more of the perceived differences in amplifier sound than we realize. As an aside, it would be nice if all amplifiers had accurate and fast clipping indicators. It might be a real eye-opener. If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity?
http://www.cordellaudio.com/he2007/show_report.shtml
Personally i never go down ...... forward ever ...
or not ..
Bob Cordell :
Most amplifiers have dynamic headroom of 0.5 to 3 dB. The PAPD will quickly give you an idea of this. When you just clip the amplifier you are using, you'll see the dynamic headroom power displayed. Compare this to the rated continuous sinewave power and you get a dB ratio that represents the dynamic headroom capability of the amplifier on real music.
This demonstration was a real "Wow" for the attendees. The Rickie Lee Jones (RLJ) cut was played at realistic, but certainly not unpleasant, levels in the relatively small hotel exhibit room on speakers with an estimated sensitivity of about 89 dB. The average power typically read 1-2 Watts, while the power on peaks often topped 250 Watts (the power display monitored only one channel, so these numbers should be interpreted as Watts per channel). On this cut, most peaks occurred with an aggressive "thwack" to a snare drum positioned dead center.
While it is true that the RLJ track has an unusually large dynamic range, this data still suggests that many listeners may be clipping their amplifiers more often than they think. This may especially be the case for those with tube amplifiers who are not using extraordinarily efficient speakers. The amount of clipping, and the way in which amplifiers handle clipping, may account for more of the perceived differences in amplifier sound than we realize. As an aside, it would be nice if all amplifiers had accurate and fast clipping indicators. It might be a real eye-opener. If your amplifier is clipping, have you left the realm of high fidelity?
http://www.cordellaudio.com/he2007/show_report.shtml
Personally i never go down ...... forward ever ...
It's pretty unusual for any commercially released music to have a peak (even one) more than about 23-26 dB above average rms volume, so that would be what, about 100-200 x average power needed for peaks in those cases. In fact, even on excellent sounding classical music it's more like 17-18 dB above average, with correspondingly less power difference. Almost no non-classical music has peaks running more than 17-18 dB, and even that is extremely rare IME.
a.wayne
Well-known member
I cant agree on that regarding crest factor ( you must be using mostly digital to feel this way) and the recording in question is nothing special , as a matter of fact my experience over the years mirrors Cordell and for the most part when individuals select amplifiers , they are really selecting how an amplifier sounds while clipping and of course recovery, since most hi-fi systems are under powered .
With your 60 watt amp you will see clipping at 12- 15db peaks , with Cordells example...
Please pay attn to the power vs distortion curve, i posted earlier, remember the power is at 1%thd, at this point the amp is in run away distortion that's why you see the fast rise, this is what gives, it the "edge" or "hardness" some complain of. With toobs, this harshness takes place higher up the thd scale so no surprise when people claim toobs play louder with less power , the harmonic distortion trail is far more palatable than SS hard clipping .
An Easy experiment of power required for playback with live instruments , the next time you are playing at your usual listening level , have someone play an acoustic instrument , anything percussive, even an acoustic guitar , strum it or play along hitting the body, listen how much it takes over your system playing .
No accident or surprise to see those with high sensitivity Speakers starting to use larger amplifiers than in the past ....
Regards...
With your 60 watt amp you will see clipping at 12- 15db peaks , with Cordells example...
Please pay attn to the power vs distortion curve, i posted earlier, remember the power is at 1%thd, at this point the amp is in run away distortion that's why you see the fast rise, this is what gives, it the "edge" or "hardness" some complain of. With toobs, this harshness takes place higher up the thd scale so no surprise when people claim toobs play louder with less power , the harmonic distortion trail is far more palatable than SS hard clipping .
An Easy experiment of power required for playback with live instruments , the next time you are playing at your usual listening level , have someone play an acoustic instrument , anything percussive, even an acoustic guitar , strum it or play along hitting the body, listen how much it takes over your system playing .
No accident or surprise to see those with high sensitivity Speakers starting to use larger amplifiers than in the past ....
Regards...
a.wayne
Well-known member
Play Eagles hotel California (CD) check the applause peak at the end .... many examples
dlb2
New member
I vote for the INT-30A. Too bad that wasn't an option. :huh:
You don't think the .8 series is better than the .5 series?
Which CD mastering? Is there applause on a studio recording?
The most dynamic Eagles recording I can find is the DVD "Hell Freezes Over" PCM track (16/48), which does have percussion notes in places that run about 20-22 dB above the average level (much higher than any applause).