Paradigm Persona 5F and 7F vs Salon 2s

steve59 said:
My problem with the salon2 was I couldn’t afford to power them. I know guys are using emotiva, but once I hear something I can’t unhear it and my h360 with 425/4 x2 wasn’t enough juice. My dealer told me to forget about the 7f, said I would need at least the 9h since I won’t use subs. So no 7f updates from me. I can talk about the ushers and the DSP8000’s if you want.
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The h300 integrated was flat and uninvolving with my salon2's but the h30 in stereo mode was plenty of power to make them sing in a 17x38 room. I also get great sound with 600w classe monos -- you should be able to find pretty good deals on used models of either amp brand.
Parker
 
Are you saying the 360 couldn't drive the Salons?

My friend used a 360 to drive Salon 2's and KEF Ref 5's, at different times, of course. Another friend who has an all Ultima home theater can drive the Salons into the ground with an ATI 3000, he has upgraded to the 6000 signature.

steve59 said:
My problem with the salon2 was I couldn’t afford to power them. I know guys are using emotiva, but once I hear something I can’t unhear it and my h360 with 425/4 x2 wasn’t enough juice. My dealer told me to forget about the 7f, said I would need at least the 9h since I won’t use subs. So no 7f updates from me. I can talk about the ushers and the DSP8000’s if you want.
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In fairness I am unfamiliar with the 360. The power specs on the 300 and 360 are only part of the story. The preamp section plays a big part as well. I originally replaced my 300 with the p30+h30 combo. An improvement, sure, but what took the system over the top was inserting a Soulution 520 pre (also decent used pricing now). I tried replacing the h30 with Soulution 501s, but those seemed unable to fill the Revel’s belly in a large room. At my mountain house I’m using an EMM Pre2 (also good used deals) with 600 watt Classes in a 23x36 room with great success. So it’s a combination of sufficient quality watts and the right pre to make the Salon2s come to life. IME Hegel preamplification vis the p30 and h300 can be noticeably improved upon. Whether this observation applies to hegel’s more recent integrateds I can’t say, but this could explain Steve’s dissatisfaction with the 360.
Parker
 
I know of a guy that loves the salon2's with his h360, but when I put red hot chili peppers on a boogie levels the thermal protection kicked in and I like my music dynamic and punchy. I've heard from both camps and it's probably room and music dependent. The h360 is a keeper but for Rock music in a large dead room the salon2' s need an arc welder to drive them. My Ushers are 6db louder at 55 than the revels were at 75 on the dial. The gent I sold my salon's to uses mc 601's and says they're peak lights are blinking as often as not.
 
I actually text Revel support and asked how much power they recommend for the salon and was told simply "500 watts". I need to clarify something in regards to the h360. I love it, I picked it among several others at the price because I found it to be the most musical, natural sounding product I could find and I replaced the A21 with it. The reason for my contribution to the thread was another poster recommending the A21 to drive the speakers and I know first hand that they(revels) would benefit from much more power.
 
I wonder if that 500 watts is 250x2? If not, ask them which of their amps put out 500 watts x2. I can't think of one unless maybe the 53 monoblocks.

The 532h is 300x2 and doesn't even double down and I know it drives the Salon 2's. Even at high volumes with reference label recordings.

Glad you chimed in, all input is welcome. I've just not seen the Salons be that difficult to drive. I do know the dealer wasn't as happy with the 585 driving them as the 532h.

Larry drove his Maggies with an A21, I'd be surprised if the Salons impedance dipped lower than those.

steve59 said:
I actually text Revel support and asked how much power they recommend for the salon and was told simply "500 watts". I need to clarify something in regards to the h360. I love it, I picked it among several others at the price because I found it to be the most musical, natural sounding product I could find and I replaced the A21 with it. The reason for my contribution to the thread was another poster recommending the A21 to drive the speakers and I know first hand that they(revels) would benefit from much more power.
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I was just curious, this is from J Atkinson's measurements of the Salon 2. Larry Green used Levinson amps, JA had some monster Musical Fidelity 750watts

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements

Sound Stage: The Salon2’s anechoic sensitivity is said to be 86.4dB/2.83V/m, and its impedance is rated at a nominal 6 ohms, with a low of 3.7 ohms at 90Hz. You’ll need a reasonably powerful amp to play them to appreciable volume levels, but you don’t have to go overboard. I used amps rated from 100 to 175Wpc with the Salon2s, and they worked just fine. No doubt you could use something bigger -- ideally, something rated at 250-300Wpc, if only for that ease and effortlessness that a really big amp can provide. Unfortunately, I had no such beast on hand.

Doug Snyder said the Salon 2 was the best passive speaker had reviewed to date. http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/equipment/revel_ultima_salon2.htm
 
Mr Peabody said:
I was just curious, this is from J Atkinson's measurements of the Salon 2.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/revel-ultima-salon2-loudspeaker-measurements
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The impedance is 4 ohms +/- over a wide swath, so the 86db +/- voltage sensitivity is really 83db/1watt (or 86db/2 watts).
I'd personally recommend an amp capable of 500w rms into 4 ohms to drive them in a larger room. Luckily, there are a number of sanely priced class D amps capable of doing just that. A Hypex NC500 based amp should do so handily.

cheers,

AJ
 
Watt=ampere x volts. Some speakers need more volts and others more ampere. Dipol speakers normaly need more ampere than volts. Hypex deliver more volts than ampere.

Greetz


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Ritmo said:
The Pass X350.8 does a great job driving the Salon 2s.
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A good quality amplifier with 150+ watts will drive the Salon 2s. For a regular (medium sized) room, several hundred watts would be fine. I have a dear friend driving his Salon 2s with the Pass X350.8 (he formerly had a Hegel H30) and the sound is outstanding in a room that's 20' X 30'.

I used to drive my Salon 2's with 450 watts/ch. I also know of people that have driven them successfully with Pass XA160.5s.

For a large room if playing super loud rock (party mode), definitely the more power the better. For a more normal size room to listen at moderate levels, no need to go overboard seeking "mega watts".
 
steve59 said:
Ever notice there’s no used h30 amps on the market?
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I thought that was because they get a little warm to the touch, so to speak

(if you follow some of the older shark threads on hegel - their amps burst into flames or have in the past which like even if its a low percentage i'd rather not have that happen)
 
Gryphon Diablo 300 should be able to drive Salon 2 reasonably well.
 
Skanda said:
I thought that was because they get a little warm to the touch, so to speak

(if you follow some of the older shark threads on hegel - their amps burst into flames or have in the past which like even if its a low percentage i'd rather not have that happen)
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Yea, I saw a you tube video on that! talk about bad luck huh? taking a video to show off a new piece of gear just in time to watch it burst into flames.
 
Haven’t been any h30s lately but used to come up on A’gon fairly often. Funny they’ve intro’d about 3 gens of integrateds since the flagship h30 came out.

With the Revels, can’t overlook amp/pre synergy. In my home system both the all-Soulution and all-Hegel systems were distinctly inferior to the Soulution 520/Hegel h30 combo. (And trying to improve on this Soulution/Hegel/salon2 system, in this room, is probably going to be the source of long-lasting regret). At my mountain place, replacing the class D ARC DS 450 with the Classe ctm 600s wrought a fantastic improvement in image width and depth with the Revels, even though I was using an ARC LS27 at the time.
Parker
 
I had considered adding a H20 with the h360 when they went on sale to horizontal bi-amp the salon 2's but the experts over there talked me out of it. I still don't understand why it wouldn't have helped my cause. Now that you mention it Hegel offered up those h20's pretty cheap a few months ago so maybe they're making room for a new line.
 
Finally got a listen to the Salons, today, for the FIRST time in my life. Great sound (driven by Levinson)! On all material. Can't really fault the speaker in any way. The shop wanted $30k Canadian petro-bucks for them. So in light of the 20% discount now offered on the Personas, the 9H and the Salon 2 are pretty much the same price.

BUT still not a single 9H to be auditioned in this town--Toronto--which is where these speakers are manufactured! Go figure.

So, still waiting to hear the 9H, preferrably next to the Salon 2s.

Probably a vain hope.
 
john grant said:
Finally got a listen to the Salons, today, for the FIRST time in my life. Great sound (driven by Levinson)! On all material. Can't really fault the speaker in any way. The shop wanted $30k Canadian petro-bucks for them. So in light of the 20% discount now offered on the Personas, the 9H and the Salon 2 are pretty much the same price.

BUT still not a single 9H to be auditioned in this town--Toronto--which is where these speakers are manufactured! Go figure.

So, still waiting to hear the 9H, preferrably next to the Salon 2s.

Probably a vain hope.
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Oh man, just get the Salon 2’s. Your ears will thank you.


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