OK, I had to ask ....

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Froggy, I deleted your post. We do not talk politics on this forum,in any way, shape, or form. Please abide by our rules.

Please everyone, lets not let this topic stray into political garbage.
 
It is a shame that the media skews things the way they do, but Big Brother is in total favor. Big Brother is who wants to keep the racial lines divided, not the common people. Also, BB WANTS the media to do this so as to keep the focus of the masses off of real issues that effect all of us like Syria and Snowden and others previously mentioned. Hopefully that is not too political.

For the case itself, GZ should have never gotten out of his car after calling the police. Period! He did so because he was carrying and felt big and bad, even though he was an outa shape wannabe cop. I would be willing to bet that if he was not packing, he would not have followed TM.

I also think that ANYONE accused of a crime should be forced to take the stand and be cross examined. If he did nothing wrong and had nothing to hide, there would be no reason not to do so.

The biggest travesty in the whole case was that TM called a Latino a "Cracker".

Now, on another site, Froggy was allowed to post a link to a video about the facts. 2/3rds of it was relevant and informative but then strayed greatly out of context. In that video, it was stated that GZ only followed him to make sure of the street names because the frequently change. What kind of neighborhood frequently changes the names of it's streets? Everyone's address would keep changing also so that makes no sense.

As much as I hate gun violence, this case does help those that have permits to carry be less scared of going down for murder if only defending one's own life.
 
Shadowfax said:
Now, on another site, Froggy was allowed to post a link to a video about the facts. 2/3rds of it was relevant and informative but then strayed greatly out of context. In that video, it was stated that GZ only followed him to make sure of the street names because the frequently change. What kind of neighborhood frequently changes the names of it's streets? Everyone's address would keep changing also so that makes no sense.
Click to expand...
That video did stray towards the end but it did lay out some pretty good background on the players, the crime(s), and the laws involved.

My read/interpertation on that "change the street names" thing is that over the entire length of a street it may have several names, not like every few months it gets renamed.

It may start as First street and late be named differently, say start out as First street and up the road become Broad Street, or some such. I know a few in our area that do that and, IIRC, that "gated community" was quite large so it's not out of the realm of possibility.
 
This isn't being posted to stir up a hornets nest. It's to answer a question/accusation I've been hearig for the past week or so.

I've heard it asked several time since the verdict was rendered, "What would have happened if a black man shot an umarmed white teenager , supposedly in self defense?"

Well, it happened in 2009 in Rochester, NY. Read this link for the result. Please note the kid didn't even touch Scott.

It's too bad the media and our country won't let Zimmerman have the same life as it did Roderick Scott. You might want to google that name. You'll find almost no hits for that person.

As you may have noticed, not media coverage, either before, during, or after the trial, no calls for lynchings, or changes in the law. Just the quiet acceptance that the legal system worked. ...just like it should have been for the Zimmerman case.

Now, for a pretty good ananysis of why it didn't happen, read this link in the American Thinker.
 
I enjoyed big time president Obama's comments on the subject of race in America, directly from his heart, and all unexpectedly, nothing scripted, but just his sincere feelings as a human being.

This was totally awesome!

And Florida has to review some of their own laws; including the Stand Your Ground one. ...And America too.
And interestingly enough, this was primarily important in the final verdict from the six jury's team. ...Ha!

And that lady serving a twenty-year sentence for firing a warning shot at his abusing and dangerous husband!

* Virginia, regarding private sex by citizens in their own homes?!!!? ...Gimme a break for god sake!

There are some big problems with people in power and voting for laws that go against human's equilibrium in America.
And cops (many of them) should take courses in which they learn to respect ALL people; from any color or race!
 
This is an important subject, it is HUGE! ...It has nothing to do with politics, religion, sex, or drugs. ...But with decent ways of living, respecting, all people; and racism in America, our justice system, our laws, our jail's systems, and what drive some people to kill, defend themselves, and all that right and/or wrong jazz....

I'm surprised to not see more comments here from the intelligent members who comprised this exceptionally friendly audio website; AudioShark.

This is a social issue, and it affects ALL of us. It is up to all of us, citizens in America to demand laws that are fair for everyone, not just for some.

If we cannot be civil in our ways of living in all among us, then we ought to try much harder than this!

Trayvon Martin was not a criminal; he was just a 17-year old kid like all of us, and that was forgotten in all that judicial system and theatrical farce from the wrong laws and instructions given to the jury, and displayed in that Florida's court! ...Trayvon was not only killed once in real life, but he was also killed twice some more in court!

George Zimmerman; people like him, should follow and respect the instructions of the police. ...He did not! ...And for that he should burden a certain degree of responsibility.

Nobody's perfect, but we should all be accountable for our actions. ...And prevent at any cost any eventuality where someone might get killed.
- Don't provoke others, by 'stalking' them, or even with bad words, because you never know how they might react!
And that first action (profiling, pursuing, following, stalking, verbally insulting, ...) might degenerate into an unforgiving situation, a deadly tragedy!

I was certain that I would hear much more comments here. ...Deep human comments, on better understanding how the black people communities feel deep down in America, our country to us all.
 
Once again - we aren't following the facts of the case. He was not instructed to do anything. They said "you don't have to do that". They didn't say "stay in your car and wait for the police."

Read the facts.

An astounding 402 calls to 911 from George's neighborhood the previous 12 months. According to all reports, George was a caring person. He loved to help. He wanted to make his neighborhood safe.

Read the facts.

One party was nearly 6 feet tall, the other 5', 7".

Read the facts.

One party was obsessed with martial arts and according to "....one eye-witness statement given the night of the shooting describes "a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help." The witness said that the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style." Source: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Trayvon_Martin

Read the facts.

Legal cases are tried in the legal system, not on CNN or in public opinion polls.

For the President of the country to come out and influence the case before it started by stating if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon, is paramount to attempting to influence the jury pool and could have denied George due course of law. Plain and simple.

This case has morphed into something it is not: a race motivated crime. It was self defense - plain and simple.

However, in my opinion, if America wants to start talking about race problems, then America needs to stop talking about race! Huh you say? Let me explain..........Every Government form I fill out - asks my race! Bank forms - ask my race! Health forms - ask my race! The media lumps everyone into "a race". Media reports on race for almost everything. Every media report says stupid things like "blacks are twice as likely to do X than whites." Everything is race, race, race.

Bob - you know the laws in Canada prohibit these kinds questions and reporting about race. Can you imagine the outcry in Canada if the CBC came out and said, "blacks are twice as likely to do X than whites?" There would be anarchy!! It's not to say that some people in Canada aren't racist - but it seems like there is much less of it - I believe - BECAUSE - we don't talk about race, race, race for everything.

My point is that we are all being programmed into thinking about different races - instead of one race - the human race.

We are all created equal and should be all considered equal. We are all members of the human race - and should treat each other with the same compassion and respect regardless of our degree of skin color. End of story.
 
That's good Mike; all I want right now is to listen to what ALL the people have to say. ...I'm REALLY open.

Yeah, I live in Canada, but my heart is also in America. ...Legally I am not a U.S.A. citizen, but in spirit, heart & soul I am!

Many many many things; laws, criminal irresponsibility, corruptions, and injustices I'm totally outraged at, and all over the world (Lac-Megantic, in Quebec, for example with that train derailment and fifty dead people!), but this thread is about Trayvon, George, the law, the judge, the prosecution's team, the lawyers, the justice system, the legal system, racism in America, the right to defend yourself (not just for George but for Trayvon too!), that sucked law! (Stand your Ground) which was introduced to the jury into their deliberation!!!, yes it was sir, and that's also a fact, and the media circus, and the population's opinion, in particular the black communities all across the globe.

It is not what one person thinks (the president or whoever), but what everyone thinks that make this world turns the way it does!

Mike, I fully agree with your previous post; but I also want to explore all avenues, if you know what I mean.
I side with no one; only the righteous side.

And like I said when I started this thread; I believe that George acted rightly at this last moment of struggle.
...He was fighting for his life indeed. I saw all the videos, interviews, ...

I also believe that the black people (many of them) are expressing their deep emotions from the last one thousand years (and more), through this case. ...I feel for them, but I hope too that they don't forget that when I was a young white child, I too was followed by the police for no good reason, and I too was treated like a scum by the so-called higher authorities! I can give you several examples (even recently) where I was mistreated by the local authorities, by my neighbors, by the police, by my employers, only for them to discover that I was giving a friendly hand to people in distress! Yes sir, that too is a fact; so not just in the black communities, but also in the white communities all across North America!

Once a mother called the police on me, and I was in court accused of having sex with a minor! ...I was 18 at the time, and she was 17. We never had sex, and the only reason why I was with her is because she asked for my help (she was drug overdosed). ...Soon they found out the real facts (in court, with the judge, the prosecution, and my lawyer), the case was instantly dismissed. ...And the charge automatically eradicated, with no dossier judiciaire to my name. The mom of that young lady cried in court when she realized that, and even my lawyer!

I can tell you other more tragic incidents in my life, where things got all screwed up; and it is generally attributable to drugs. It happens all the time, and not only to black people but to white people as well. Man, there are truly some real bad people out there (black, white, red, yellow, drug cartels, sex sales, killers of all types, rapists, bombers, radicalists, supremacists, anarchists, terrorists, weird clans, obscure cults, controllers, you name it...) and those are the ones at who the police should be after. ...And also after the corruption reigning at the highest level of our governments, the police themselves, and in the high echelons of our politicians!
...The banks, the insurance companies, Wall Street, the brokerage firms, the big companies of black gold (oil), the polluters, the price fixers (technologies), etc., etc., etc.
Start cleaning at the top first, then you won't have so much to waste time to at the smaller echelons.
It's always the top who influences all the rest!

But this ain't about me, or all the other stuff going on good or bad in the world, it's about Trayvon and George. ...Me I simply have some experience to help me relating.

I am pissed! ...About that 20-year jail sentence for that young black women because she only fired a warning shot to her abusive husband (she was afraid for her life, and she emotionally reacted as a perfect human being).
And for what? TWENTY YEARS in JAIL!!!

I'm pissed at my own government! I'm pissed at the lack of security in the railroad industries! I'm pissed at the corruption at all levels and in all the cities of my country! I'm pissed at people who lost their sense of integrity, and think of their own self-served interests, financial or/and others.

And I'm pissed because Trayvon is dead and not here to have the right to defend himself too!

But I'm glad that America is having this discussion right now. But then, I'm not optimist, I'm realistic that things will never change. ...They can only change starting by me.
 
NorthStar said:
That's good Mike; all I want right now is to listen to what ALL the people have to say. ...I'm REALLY open.

Yeah, I live in Canada, but my heart is also in America. ...Legally I am not a U.S.A. citizen, but in spirit, heart & soul I am!

Many many many things; laws, criminal irresponsibility, corruptions, and injustices I'm totally outraged at, and all over the world (Lac-Megantic, in Quebec, for example with that train derailment and fifty dead people!), but this thread is about Trayvon, George, the law, the judge, the prosecution's team, the lawyers, the justice system, the legal system, racism in America, the right to defend yourself (not just for George but for Trayvon too!), that sucked law! (Stand your Ground) which was introduced to the jury into their deliberation!!!, yes it was sir, and that's also a fact, and the media circus, and the population's opinion, in particular the black communities all across the globe.

It is not what one person thinks (the president or whoever), but what everyone thinks that make this world turns the way it does!

Mike, I fully agree with your previous post; but I also want to explore all avenues, if you know what I mean.
I side with no one; only the righteous side.

And like I said when I started this thread; I believe that George acted rightly at this last moment of struggle.
...He was fighting for his life indeed. I saw all the videos, interviews, ...

I also believe that the black people (many of them) are expressing their deep emotions from the last one thousand years (and more), through this case. ...I feel for them, but I hope too that they don't forget that when I was a young white child, I too was followed by the police for no good reason, and I too was treated like a scum by the so-called higher authorities! I can give you several examples (even recently) where I was mistreated by the local authorities, by my neighbors, by the police, by my employers, only for them to discover that I was giving a friendly hand to people in distress! Yes sir, that too is a fact; so not just in the black communities, but also in the white communities all across North America!

Once a mother called the police on me, and I was in court accused of having sex with a minor! ...I was 18 at the time, and she was 17. We never had sex, and the only reason why I was with her is because she asked for my help (she was drug overdosed). ...Soon they found out the real facts (in court, with the judge, the prosecution, and my lawyer), the case was instantly dismissed. ...And the charge automatically eradicated, with no dossier judiciaire to my name. The mom of that young lady cried in court when she realized that, and even my lawyer!

I can tell you other more tragic incidents in my life, where things got all screwed up; and it is generally attributable to drugs. It happens all the time, and not only to black people but to white people as well. Man, there are truly some real bad people out there (black, white, red, yellow, drug cartels, sex sales, killers of all types, rapists, bombers, radicalists, supremacists, anarchists, terrorists, weird clans, obscure cults, controllers, you name it...) and those are the ones at who the police should be after. ...And also after the corruption reigning at the highest level of our governments, the police themselves, and in the high echelons of our politicians!
...The banks, the insurance companies, Wall Street, the brokerage firms, the big companies of black gold (oil), the polluters, the price fixers (technologies), etc., etc., etc.
Start cleaning at the top first, then you won't have so much to waste time to at the smaller echelons.
It's always the top who influences all the rest!

But this ain't about me, or all the other stuff going on good or bad in the world, it's about Trayvon and George. ...Me I simply have some experience to help me relating.

I am pissed! ...About that 20-year jail sentence for that young black women because she only fired a warning shot to her abusive husband (she was afraid for her life, and she emotionally reacted as a perfect human being).
And for what? TWENTY YEARS in JAIL!!!

I'm pissed at my own government! I'm pissed at the lack of security in the railroad industries! I'm pissed at the corruption at all levels and in all the cities of my country! I'm pissed at people who lost their sense of integrity, and think of their own self-served interests, financial or/and others.

And I'm pissed because Trayvon is dead and not here to have the right to defend himself too!
Trayvon too was a caring person, and cannot be accused to have been six-foot tall! ...And to have learned about martial arts! ...And to have smoked pot! None of that is a true crime, it's just the way life is.
[- Man, don't follow me when I mind my own business, because me too I'll beat the crap out of you somehow! ...I hate stalkers, profilers, and rats!]

But I'm glad that America is having this discussion right now. But then, I'm not optimist, I'm realistic that things will never change. ...They can only change starting by me.
Click to expand...
;;;;;;; Just start reading from the highlight section; "And I'm pissed because Trayvon ..."

* I simply added inadvertently; accidentally, by clicking on Reply With Quote, instead of clicking on Edit Post.
 
I have an idea ...

It may sound harsh to some (my deepest thoughts on this case), but my heart is with everyone, no exception.
I blame no one, I sympathize with everything in life, because that's the way we were created; imperfect humanity.

Every little action culminating to bigger and more tragic action has to be examined more profoundly. ...I think.

I believe that everything that men and women are doing today affects tomorrow's outcome.
And that, is the way to move forward from yesterday.

No one truly knows what's in the heart of another person, but only in his own heart.
And if you truly respect what's in your heart, you respect what's in other people's heart too.

The more we learn about it, the more we listen, the more we realize that we're all different inside.
...And by the same token we also aspire to similar goals. ...But so many of us we lose the real touch along the way ....

I think it starts right at the beginning; from our parents, from our education, and from real life. ...The system we created.
Kids go to school (some don't), then to Universities, then find jobs that pay very well, or if you are physically talented and fit, you can do very well too.

But here's the problem in many sections of our societies: Corruption infiltrate all sectors, rich and poor, the power of controlling, drugs, sex, medias, ... money becomes the wrong drive for many, it's the devil by which they imprisoned themselves, becoming slaves of their own lifestyle. ...Crimes abound, in all shapes, forms and even not defined yet.

Yes, every country has its own system, and America has its own too. ...And they say that it's the best they have.
...Is it really?

I have an idea ... an ideal.
 
Mike said:
Once again - we aren't following the facts of the case. He was not instructed to do anything. They said "you don't have to do that". They didn't say "stay in your car and wait for the police."

Read the facts.

An astounding 402 calls to 911 from George's neighborhood the previous 12 months. According to all reports, George was a caring person. He loved to help. He wanted to make his neighborhood safe.

Read the facts.

One party was nearly 6 feet tall, the other 5', 7".

Read the facts.

One party was obsessed with martial arts and according to "....one eye-witness statement given the night of the shooting describes "a black male, wearing a dark colored 'hoodie' on top of a white or Hispanic male who was yelling for help." The witness said that the black male was throwing punches "MMA [mixed martial arts] style." Source: Shooting of Trayvon Martin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Read the facts.

Legal cases are tried in the legal system, not on CNN or in public opinion polls.

For the President of the country to come out and influence the case before it started by stating if he had a son, he would look like Trayvon, is paramount to attempting to influence the jury pool and could have denied George due course of law. Plain and simple.

This case has morphed into something it is not: a race motivated crime. It was self defense - plain and simple.

However, in my opinion, if America wants to start talking about race problems, then America needs to stop talking about race! Huh you say? Let me explain..........Every Government form I fill out - asks my race! Bank forms - ask my race! Health forms - ask my race! The media lumps everyone into "a race". Media reports on race for almost everything. Every media report says stupid things like "blacks are twice as likely to do X than whites." Everything is race, race, race.

Bob - you know the laws in Canada prohibit these kinds questions and reporting about race. Can you imagine the outcry in Canada if the CBC came out and said, "blacks are twice as likely to do X than whites?" There would be anarchy!! It's not to say that some people in Canada aren't racist - but it seems like there is much less of it - I believe - BECAUSE - we don't talk about race, race, race for everything.

My point is that we are all being programmed into thinking about different races - instead of one race - the human race.

We are all created equal and should be all considered equal. We are all members of the human race - and should treat each other with the same compassion and respect regardless of our degree of skin color. End of story.
Click to expand...

Read the facts correctly Mike: An unarmed man stood his ground using his right to defended himself. As he stood his ground the initiator of the incident used a weapon to get himself out of a position he put himself into.
 
still-one said:
Read the facts correctly Mike: An unarmed man stood his ground using his right to defended himself. As he stood his ground the initiator of the incident used a weapon to get himself out of a position he put himself into.
Click to expand...

What was TM defending himself from? Nothing. He was the aggressor. The initiator was TM, not GZ. He hid and then jumped GZ and GZ defended himself. This is the evidence we have. Could things have happened differently? Sure - but the jury had to deal with facts. Even they asked "why didn't TM just say 'I'm on my way home'"? Then nothing would have happened. To suggest that GZ jumped/attacked TM is not only to ignore the facts, but to suggest an improbability.
 
Mike said:
What was TM defending himself from? Nothing. He was the aggressor. The initiator was TM, not GZ. He hid and then jumped GZ and GZ defended himself. This is the evidence we have. Could things have happened differently? Sure - but the jury had to deal with facts. Even they asked "why didn't TM just say 'I'm on my way home'"? Then nothing would have happened. To suggest that GZ jumped/attacked TM is not only to ignore the facts, but to suggest an improbability.
Click to expand...

Actually Mike we don't know all the exact facts of that; only what George told the police.
And that is the main reason why he was acquitted; the jury after deliberating for sixteen hours voted unanimously believing his story, and without any real proof. ...No proof, you must acquit. ...The prosecution had nothing! ...Just puffs of air.

____________________

* It's a very tricky case because just think at what could happen now!
- You have a gun, you kill someone (anyone), and you can claim self-defense if you're smart enough and know just what to do!

** That black woman doing twenty years; she would have been better off killing her abusive husband than just firing a warning shot!
 
Mike said:
What was TM defending himself from? Nothing. He was the aggressor. The initiator was TM, not GZ. He hid and then jumped GZ and GZ defended himself. This is the evidence we have. Could things have happened differently? Sure - but the jury had to deal with facts. Even they asked "why didn't TM just say 'I'm on my way home'"? Then nothing would have happened. To suggest that GZ jumped/attacked TM is not only to ignore the facts, but to suggest an improbability.
Click to expand...

It is laughable that anyone would believe he lay in wait for Zimmerman. If someone is following you for no reason the first rule of self defense is either exit or act first. If GZ had not followed or had he stayed in his vehicle TM would not have felt threatened. GZ actions wrote a check his ass couldn't cash without pulling a gun.
 
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