New tube amp

Responding to meps' post #36 above.....Yes, really. I will explain one experience I had. At one point in time I had a PS Audio Lambda transport that I sent in to be modified with better parts. I think Mod Squad performed this work but not 100% sure. They upgraded the transport and a good part of the highs were gone when I got it back. The KEF speakers I had at the time were not heavy on the highs to begin with and I was expecting the transport to sound "better." It actually sounded better in my system before it was "upgraded" with better parts. After I sold the KEF'S and got the Maggies then it was fine as the Maggies can sound a bit hot depending on setup and if you put the tweeters inside or outside. So, in this instance with the KEF's it was better with cheaper parts. Cheers.
 
Responding to MichaelsMinute's post #37 above (can someone school this old fart on how to add in other folk's quotes? I click on each one and it doesn't add them, thanks) it By specs I mean watts, input and output impedence, similar topology and 20-20,000hz +/- .5db or something similar.
 
Responding to MichaelsMinute's post #37 above (can someone school this old fart on how to add in other folk's quotes? I click on each one and it doesn't add them, thanks) it By specs I mean watts, input and output impedence, similar topology and 20-20,000hz +/- .5db or something similar.

From one old fart to another:

Are you clicking on "Reply With Quote" at the bottom right of the post that you're replying to? That will quote the entire post, and below that you simply type your reply.

If you only want to quote a certain part, just copy and paste whatever you want.
 
Here is another instance where "better" parts didn't sound as good. I was tube rolling with a DAC I had many years ago. I bought some Telefunken Smooth Plates as they were supposed to be the "bee's knees." The Telefunken's just didn't have the drive and pace that the cheap Golden Dragons had. BTW, the Telefunkens tested very good on my tube tester so they weren't worn out. And another instance....My much cheaper Cardas speaker cables sound better than my expensive Tara Lab speaker cables. These examples have to qualified with the statement "in my system" as everything is system dependent. Cheers all.
 
It is widely thought that more expensive parts give you better sound. What if your system is really laid back and it needs a bit more highs? A lot of times cheaper parts will not sound as smooth as more expensive ones and have more highs so in this instance cheaper parts would be a better match for the system. This is why system matching is very important. For example....a bright speaker should be matched with a smooth (dark) amplifier. Agree?

No. Playing synergies against each other results in greater distortion. Better to have each part of the system stand on its merits rather than its weaknesses!

If the more expensive parts actually measure better then they can offer an improvement. The more feedback the amplifier uses, the more it can reject the effects of the various parts. Tube amps never have anywhere near enough feedback so the parts they use can really affect the sound because less distortion is being generated.

WRT ASR: The problem they seem to have over there IMO is that they've not figured out the link between measurements and how they affect the sound. I don't know if this is due to a lack of understanding how the ear/brain system works or what.

But the measurements are really important; if they are all there you can predict how the amp will sound without hearing it (certainly not how it was 30 years ago!). And ASR does provide most of the important bits. I find it strangely ironic.

After all these decades, it is still wise to heed the words of Daniel Recklinghausen: "If it measures good and sounds bad, — it is bad. If it sounds good and measures bad, — you've measured the wrong thing."

ASR seems to ignore this but its obvious that Mr. Recklinghausen had drawn the same conclusion that I have.
 
Ralph, I have read many dozens of your posts and I believe I have disagreed with you on very few occasions. But I don't agree with you here. If a system sounds better to me by matching dark sounding components with say, a pair of hot speakers then who cares about the measurements?
 
Ralph, I have read many dozens of your posts and I believe I have disagreed with you on very few occasions. But I don't agree with you here. If a system sounds better to me by matching dark sounding components with say, a pair of hot speakers then who cares about the measurements?

My point is that something dark isn't likely to be synergistic with something bright in an ideal way. The reason something can be bright might be due to unmasked distortion- higher ordered harmonics not masked by the 2nd and 3rd harmonics. We've all heard solid state amps with this problem! Since the brightness isn't caused by a frequency response error, putting such an amp on a 'dark' speaker might result in a dark sounding system that is still harsh and annoying.

The measurements in this case has to be the distortion spectra of the amplifier- if you only have 'THD' that's insufficient to make any kind of assessment, other than perhaps a really low THD figure might actually sound bad due to the only distortion it has being the higher orders. The ear uses the higher ordered harmonics to sense how loud a sound is, so its keenly sensitive to their presence and if they've been messed with!

The reason you can get into trouble with synergies is the ear assigns tonality to all forms of distortion: the 'warmth' of tubes for example is the 2nd and 3rd harmonic having this assignment by the ear. Similarly, aliasing of digital is also distortion (in the analog world might be called 'inharmonic distortion') and similar to higher ordered harmonics, the ear perceives that as brightness. These assignments exist independently of tonal colorations brought on by frequency response error.

Mind you this is only one reason to avoid synergistic effects. If you're spending hard-earned cash, you can spend the same amount on equipment that doesn't have the problems (bright or 'dark') and so does not need to seek synergy. You wind up with something that is more musical IME.
 
I don't know about distortion measurements and all that but I do know that every component is not neutral like each manufacturer claims. That's why all of us buy, sell and replace our components to find the ones that match the best. Unfortunately measurements will not do that for us.
 
I don't know about distortion measurements and all that but I do know that every component is not neutral like each manufacturer claims. That's why all of us buy, sell and replace our components to find the ones that match the best. Unfortunately measurements will not do that for us.

Yes- that's the way it was since the 1950s- the spec sheet really didn't tell you anything about how the equipment sounded. It should. The technology to do that has now existed for about 20 years, but one thing about that - I think a lot of manufacturers really don't want you to know how it sounds before you buy. The want you to know reputation and the message from the marketing department. An incomplete spec sheet has been an essential part of that.
 
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