New B&O ICE Power 1200AS2 Module @ Nord: 600W into 8Ohms 1200W into 4Ohms
- Thread starter Showroom Dummies
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tane0019
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The new ICE is 2 ohms stable ?
nc42acc
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norman1982
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- Nov 6, 2016
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Showroom Dummies
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- #85
Any more comparisons between these two?
mresseguie
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I'm hoping to compare my Mivera 1200as SE amp to one of Colin's NCore500 One up amps later this Summer or Fall. My 1200as is the one that AC member, Gregfisk, is babysitting (which you may have read about). Mike was not at all happy with my choice of babysitters. OTOH, I think I made a great choice in babysitters. :yahoo1:
I have not yet contacted Colin about this idea.
Michael
I have not yet contacted Colin about this idea.
Michael
Showroom Dummies
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- #87
Phil A
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Data sheet is here - https://icepower.dk/products/amplifier-power-modules/as-series/ 2.7 ohms nominal is the minimum - so it can handle a bit below 2.7 but not continuous at 2 ohms.
barrows
New member
I doubt there would be a problem with almost any speaker though... Remember, this spec is for full power (2400 watts @ 2 ohms!). It can probably deliver all the power one would actually need into 2 ohms. That is the nice thing about all that headroom... If one was really worried about it (what speakers are we talking about here, Apogee Scintillas?) one could do a dual mono version with two 1200 AS1 modules.
Phil A
Member
That's great news. After my amp breaks in (in a secondary system now) and I bring it over to a friend's later this week, I'll be trying it in the main system where hopefully it will outperform what I have and handle the impedance and I'll be very happy.
Showroom Dummies
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- #91
Will Gregfisk be giving his views on the 1200as? If he is do you have a link for AC?
mresseguie
Member
Greg had posted some of his impressions in Audiogon's forum, but the thread became 'contaminated' and was removed by Agon staff. I'll ask Greg if he'd like to register here in order to post his impressions. He really likes the 1200as amp sound. I think he said it's the best Class D amp he's heard in his system. He absolutely refuses to buy an amp from Mivera because of Mike's personality and unbusinesslike behavior.
Michael
Showroom Dummies
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- #93
I can't believe any amp can better my Nord - the sound it produces is unbelievable (listening to 'Middle of nowhere' by Orbital at the moment).
That's why I want to hear comparisons by owners of both.
That's why I want to hear comparisons by owners of both.
Showroom Dummies
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Has Greg heard a Nord?
I heard there was a thread that some folks were talking about the new 1200as2 boards over here so I thought I would take a look. I have been fortunate enough to have gotten several weeks with Michael's amp.
I'm in the camp that most likely many here are and that's the "I've never heard a class D amp I like yet" camp. That was me until I heard an amp which incorporated the 1200as2 board. This amp is really good, I don't mean really good for a class D amp but really good from what I have ever heard good. Yes, this amp was put together by Mike or BAVMIKE or BLIZZARD whoever you want to call him. He and his cronies got mad at me because when I wrote my review on Agon I didn't mention his name nor the name of his company. The reason is simple. Why would I promote a company I don’t believe in? There are several other companies selling these amps who appear to be professional in their dealings with customers. Nord is the company most people are familiar with, then there’s Rogue, Apollon and Bellissimo. Bellissimo is the only US Company if that matters and are back east. Apollon’s base price is the highest but starts out with better parts.
The other reason as someone else stated earlier in this thread, since there isn't anything to do to this amp to change it, like Op amps, fancy caps or good power supplies I don't think who makes it is important other than the craftsmanship. I personally would buy from one of the vendors I mentioned who have been around a long time and are reputable people. They all sell the same module. They also all will custom make them as you like and there prices are very competitive.
Showroom, regarding your comment as to which amp is better I know this. Nord and Rogue say the NC500 is better than the 1200as2, Bellissimo says they both have their strengths and weaknesses but hasn't spent much time with the 1200as2 board yet. He did say they were very close but the NC500 costs twice as much. So, I think you certainly could be right about the NC500 being better. The reason people think differently who haven't heard them is the guy who made Michael’s told everyone the 1200as2 was hands down better. And his excuse why Nord sells their NC500 amp for more than their 1200as2 amp is that they don’t want to lose money and are trying to get rid of inventory implying of course they will stop selling the NC500 once they deplete their stock.:rofl:
I do like the amp and will be buying one very soon, it just won't be from the company who made this one. I like many have never liked class D amps. They are cold and sterile to me, harsh on the top end and just didn't have any body to them. I guess thin sounding is a good way to put it. The 1200as2 is full bodied and even what I would call on the warm side. I have the amp paired up with a Lampizator Atlantic Dac with super clocks and volume control. I use a mac mini as a source with Audirvana Plus.
Something I found very interesting about a week ago. Another audiophile came over with his DIY 1200as2 in a Takachi case. He brought it over so we could compare it to Michael's SE. We didn't realize until we got together that the Takachi amp was balanced and Michael's SE was single ended. So an apples to apples comparison wasn't possible. My Lampi has both outputs but we elected to use the balanced output for our listening session with both amps. What came as a surprise is the Takachi amp sounded better than the SE amp even though the SE amp has upgraded connectors and wire and the case is a lot thicker. The conclusion we came up with is that the 1200as2 amp works a lot better using its balanced connection rather than its single ended connection. At first we thought it was because the guy who came over with the Takachi balanced amp brought a $5000.00 silver XLR interconnect. So, we swapped that for a Mogami XLR interconnect which was the same wire that's in my single ended cables. The Takachi cased amp still sounded a lot better than the single ended amp. We have no idea if the case, wire and connectors make a difference or not. What we do know is if they do make a difference it isn't enough to make up for using the balanced input on the amp.
I'm in the camp that most likely many here are and that's the "I've never heard a class D amp I like yet" camp. That was me until I heard an amp which incorporated the 1200as2 board. This amp is really good, I don't mean really good for a class D amp but really good from what I have ever heard good. Yes, this amp was put together by Mike or BAVMIKE or BLIZZARD whoever you want to call him. He and his cronies got mad at me because when I wrote my review on Agon I didn't mention his name nor the name of his company. The reason is simple. Why would I promote a company I don’t believe in? There are several other companies selling these amps who appear to be professional in their dealings with customers. Nord is the company most people are familiar with, then there’s Rogue, Apollon and Bellissimo. Bellissimo is the only US Company if that matters and are back east. Apollon’s base price is the highest but starts out with better parts.
The other reason as someone else stated earlier in this thread, since there isn't anything to do to this amp to change it, like Op amps, fancy caps or good power supplies I don't think who makes it is important other than the craftsmanship. I personally would buy from one of the vendors I mentioned who have been around a long time and are reputable people. They all sell the same module. They also all will custom make them as you like and there prices are very competitive.
Showroom, regarding your comment as to which amp is better I know this. Nord and Rogue say the NC500 is better than the 1200as2, Bellissimo says they both have their strengths and weaknesses but hasn't spent much time with the 1200as2 board yet. He did say they were very close but the NC500 costs twice as much. So, I think you certainly could be right about the NC500 being better. The reason people think differently who haven't heard them is the guy who made Michael’s told everyone the 1200as2 was hands down better. And his excuse why Nord sells their NC500 amp for more than their 1200as2 amp is that they don’t want to lose money and are trying to get rid of inventory implying of course they will stop selling the NC500 once they deplete their stock.:rofl:
I do like the amp and will be buying one very soon, it just won't be from the company who made this one. I like many have never liked class D amps. They are cold and sterile to me, harsh on the top end and just didn't have any body to them. I guess thin sounding is a good way to put it. The 1200as2 is full bodied and even what I would call on the warm side. I have the amp paired up with a Lampizator Atlantic Dac with super clocks and volume control. I use a mac mini as a source with Audirvana Plus.
Something I found very interesting about a week ago. Another audiophile came over with his DIY 1200as2 in a Takachi case. He brought it over so we could compare it to Michael's SE. We didn't realize until we got together that the Takachi amp was balanced and Michael's SE was single ended. So an apples to apples comparison wasn't possible. My Lampi has both outputs but we elected to use the balanced output for our listening session with both amps. What came as a surprise is the Takachi amp sounded better than the SE amp even though the SE amp has upgraded connectors and wire and the case is a lot thicker. The conclusion we came up with is that the 1200as2 amp works a lot better using its balanced connection rather than its single ended connection. At first we thought it was because the guy who came over with the Takachi balanced amp brought a $5000.00 silver XLR interconnect. So, we swapped that for a Mogami XLR interconnect which was the same wire that's in my single ended cables. The Takachi cased amp still sounded a lot better than the single ended amp. We have no idea if the case, wire and connectors make a difference or not. What we do know is if they do make a difference it isn't enough to make up for using the balanced input on the amp.
Showroom Dummies
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- Thread Author
- #96
@Greg F: Great write up
Randy Myers
Well-known member
I have never heard the 1200 or the NC500. I do own the new PS Audio M700's which use the 700 amps in mono. I have had several amplifiers in my system. A classic ARC, McIntosh, First Watt, Wyred 4 Sound, Son of Ampzilla, Quick Silver, Goldmund Job 225, PS Audio S300, etc. I have also had several friends from our local audio club over listening to several of these configuration. At this point we all agree, the M700's are the best sounding amps ever in my system. The separation, imaging, smoothness, dynamics, warmth, etc., are rather amazing. All of this was emphasized to an extreme amount when I got a T+A DAC8 DSD with HQPlayer. These amps obviously can show the subtleties that many cannot.
barrows
New member
One thing I would point out is that comparisons of the 1200 AS2 to amps using NC-500 modules does not seem fair. Most of the NC-500 builds being used for comparison are dual mono amps with completely separate power supplies for each channel. In my experience full dual mono designs have an advantage in terms of sound staging and often dynamics as well.
I am looking forward to seeing what happens when we get a true dual mono amp with two 1200 AS1 boards (or mono blocks, whatever) as this should be what is compared to the dual mono Nord amps (etc) based on two SMPS 1200 and two NC-500 modules.
I am looking forward to seeing what happens when we get a true dual mono amp with two 1200 AS1 boards (or mono blocks, whatever) as this should be what is compared to the dual mono Nord amps (etc) based on two SMPS 1200 and two NC-500 modules.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
Ah yes, the unease of the audiophile
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. The folks who correlate $$000's (Objective parameter) with subjective SQ, may scoff at such an idea, a "cheap" "class D" amp having no peer. Then insist, "but its all subjective anyway" LOL.
Ummm, if it's all subjective and no three audiophiles can agree on any one thing regarding "sound quality", who cares if there is the mystical beast of an amp that outdoes your Nord? Seriously. If that is the case, then you need to try every amp on earth!
Try enjoying the music and forgetting about the amps, fuse and lifters for a while. Some might say a $100k Solution or a 30's era vacuum tube design is "better" (and fully mean it in absolute terms), but that may merely be delusions of grandeur.
If it's "all subjective" that is....
cheers,
AJ
nc42acc
New member
AJ here is that mystical beast you speak of.
Ah yes, the unease of the audiophile
Maybe there is, maybe there isn't. The folks who correlate $$000's (Objective parameter) with subjective SQ, may scoff at such an idea, a "cheap" "class D" amp having no peer. Then insist, "but its all subjective anyway" LOL.
Ummm, if it's all subjective and no three audiophiles can agree on any one thing regarding "sound quality", who cares if there is the mystical beast of an amp that outdoes your Nord? Seriously. If that is the case, then you need to try every amp on earth!
Try enjoying the music and forgetting about the amps, fuse and lifters for a while. Some might say a $100k Solution or a 30's era vacuum tube design is "better" (and fully mean it in absolute terms), but that may merely be delusions of grandeur.
If it's "all subjective" that is....
cheers,
AJ