Randy Myers
Well-known member
I believe the new ICE modules are supposed to be very good. I do know of a few other manufactures that will be coming out with new amplifiers based on these new modules.
New B&O ICE Power 1200AS2 Module @ Nord: 600W into 8Ohms 1200W into 4Ohms
- Thread starter Showroom Dummies
- Start date
tane0019
New member
Am I the only one checking this thread and hoping for more thoughts, feedback and insights into the 1200AS2 vs NC500 based amplification?
I'm also waiting ................
What will be very interesting to see is how other providers (I won’t call them manufacturers) package the same module and try and differentiate. Perhaps casework becomes the cosmetic differentiation as without a buffer stage to tweak, there cannot be a hugely meaningful audio difference.
I personally would like dual inputs and a switch as I use an integrated today with unity gain bypass for the pre amp for home cinema and then standard mode for hifi (using the stereo speakers). I want to use my DAC as a pre, but that means still needing switching (and then why would I want another preamp stage).
I personally would like dual inputs and a switch as I use an integrated today with unity gain bypass for the pre amp for home cinema and then standard mode for hifi (using the stereo speakers). I want to use my DAC as a pre, but that means still needing switching (and then why would I want another preamp stage).
Randy Myers
Well-known member
There are huge differences between manufactures. The amplifier chip is one thing, but the implementation is also important. The input stage makes a huge difference, among several other things. All ICE amps do not sound the same.
These companies are true manufactures. There are some that build their own cases, created their own input stages, etc., etc. Companies like Bel Cantos, PS Audio, Wyred 4 Sound, etc., are indeed manufactures. Others are not. Some have one of these other "manufactures" actually build it for them.
These companies are true manufactures. There are some that build their own cases, created their own input stages, etc., etc. Companies like Bel Cantos, PS Audio, Wyred 4 Sound, etc., are indeed manufactures. Others are not. Some have one of these other "manufactures" actually build it for them.
Yes but it's this still the case with the 1200AS2?
It's not just an amplifier IC. It's a compete amplifier module from input to output.
Do we expect these companies to design their own modules loosely based on the ice edge design?
Are they even allowed to do so?
It's not just an amplifier IC. It's a compete amplifier module from input to output.
Do we expect these companies to design their own modules loosely based on the ice edge design?
Are they even allowed to do so?
I quite agree - but my point was the new 1200AS2 module is a system on board. Is there anything that will influence it’s performance (vs the nCore NC500 amps for example that allowed a buffer stage and sonic differentiation)?
It’s power cable
Signal cable
Power switch
Speaker cable
Connectors
Box
Maybe the led colour [emoji16] - I joke, but this is a primary question of whether system on boards like this will package performance for us.
Jack
Active member
To my knowledge there is only one member here who has both amps and he has given his opinion already. The rest are waiting on delivery, so we can't give opinions of products we don't have yet.
a.wayne
Well-known member
These ICE amps are fully built kits as delivered from B&O and only requires a power cord and chassis.....
Or to put in another way, these ICE amps doesn't need additional tickling to put a specific flavor on top of it. I have both the SI and Sparko Opamp for the Nords and you can season it based on the rest of the system. With these ICE modules you don't have that option and the performance depends on the rest of your upstream gears and the amps will never be the seasoning place or weak point.
And it is interesting to see that while the Nords have offered either the Hypex buffer or the lower tier modules all integrated with the PSU (the same concept as the 1200AS2) - that so many have opted for the Nord own buffer and OPA rolling to taste.
If the Icepower 1200 is truly transparent and there is no choice of buffer tweak - will it be all anyone needs? (And if so - why wasn’t the existing Hypex offerings).
That’s why we are all so keen on owners like you sharing your experiences if you are lucky enough to be able to play with both.
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This right here. I was thinking the same thing. Weren't we at this point with the NC400?
Did those that jump on the NC400 and then jump off do so prematurely if we are back to "the amp is transparent - color the sound with your source or speakers".
Unfortunately, all these talks about "why this" and "why that" is meaningless to me. A company or a manufacturer decides what's best in terms of engineering and sales - the Hypex NC1200 modules in many high priced amps is also full stock and has earned a great deal of reputation from audiophiles. Yes, I also had the Merrill Veritas in my system at one point. You can analyze all these logic to death (and off coarse without any outcome) or you can simply buy them and hear it out yourself. I preferred to do the later.
Jack
Active member
Other than the original "kit" purchasers there are no owners to give you listening impressions. Also this is an OEM only module just like the NC1200 and is not available for sale to DIY. The other kit owner impressions other than Dev's are on Audio Circle.
mocenigo
New member
Hi, any direct comparison?
mocenigo
New member
In terms of boards, a single Icepower 1200AS2 – giving you two channels – costs roughly as much as a single channel of a NC500 based amp (with stock Hypex buffer and SMPS). Then you have to add case, connectors, some cabling. Therefore it is not surprising that a 1200AS2 based amp should cost less than a NC500 based one. A final 15-20% cost difference is to be expected, if in both cases quality connectors/cabling/cases are used (decent quality, not inches thick worth of aluminium and all top Furutech stuff just because).
mocenigo
New member
By "I'd say about even" do you mean that it is fair that the 1200AS2 sits below top in the Nord hierarchy or that the two solutions are roughly equal in SQ?
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mocenigo
New member
For long time I wanted to buy a Ncore based amp, then recently there was the almost unbearable hype by Mike of Mivera audio. If you read carefully, the hype all comes from him, or by people that report his claims, or reported by him as comments from folks that bought from him and curiously had no good hypex implementations before. This is highly suspicious, but maybe it is true that he believes that this module has the best sound in the world.
I then ordered a 1200as2 based amp from an European manufacturer (Apollon), but because of Icepower delays they will be delivered not before March. The Icepower folks are clearly logistics amateurs: They told me that they have problems because of widespread allocation problems in the electronics industry, something that was actually known in advance in the first half of last year, when they were starting the buzz on the new module. But, if they are betting their future on this line, why did they not think about that before? It is clear that when Icepower was spun off from B&O they did not take the best logistics folks with them.
Therefore I changed my order to a NC500 based one, with custom buffers with SI discrete opamps and Sparkos regulators. Yes, more expensive, but at least the tech is proven and if it sounds as I expect it (mostly linear in response, fast bass, excellent timing, good staging and clear but not harsh highs), then I will be happy.
Still willing to compare myself Ncore vs the new Ice Edge based modules, but being a bit annoyed at Icepower I think this won't happen very soon. Since the Ice Edge chipset can support the processing for very, very high switching frequencies, maybe when they will have GaN or GaAs based output devices. Then a 3Mhz and beyond switching frequency can be attained and thus negligible phase rotations for several octaves beyond audible range.
I then ordered a 1200as2 based amp from an European manufacturer (Apollon), but because of Icepower delays they will be delivered not before March. The Icepower folks are clearly logistics amateurs: They told me that they have problems because of widespread allocation problems in the electronics industry, something that was actually known in advance in the first half of last year, when they were starting the buzz on the new module. But, if they are betting their future on this line, why did they not think about that before? It is clear that when Icepower was spun off from B&O they did not take the best logistics folks with them.
Therefore I changed my order to a NC500 based one, with custom buffers with SI discrete opamps and Sparkos regulators. Yes, more expensive, but at least the tech is proven and if it sounds as I expect it (mostly linear in response, fast bass, excellent timing, good staging and clear but not harsh highs), then I will be happy.
Still willing to compare myself Ncore vs the new Ice Edge based modules, but being a bit annoyed at Icepower I think this won't happen very soon. Since the Ice Edge chipset can support the processing for very, very high switching frequencies, maybe when they will have GaN or GaAs based output devices. Then a 3Mhz and beyond switching frequency can be attained and thus negligible phase rotations for several octaves beyond audible range.
barrows
New member
Still loving my NC-400 stereo amp build here. Although i have heard both the Merrill Veritas and Nord One Up in my system and both are a little better (barely) than my amps. Want to hear some 1200 AS modules... Even with the 1200 AS, my experience with the NC-400s suggests that all these amps are so clean and transparent that small implementation differences do change the sound. I have used Cardas wire for AC input, Speaker output (direct soldered to the board avoiding the brass terminal blocks), and signal input, and that helped the amp gain in body/weight and palpability. I also ended up using Herbie's tall/soft Tenderfoots, and with the NC-400 these resulted in a little smoother midrange than the various (harder) footers I tried (including Stillpoints Minis).
So, even with a complete module like the ICEPower 1200 AS, there is room for the manufacturer to tune the sound some, via wiring, and vibration control/chassis design...