Negative Reviews of Audio Components

Well , going to check out your channel, get to know the reviewer so to speak :)





Zero said:
Paul - Cheers. :)

Wayne - In an ideal world, rave reviews would be reserved for the rare product that truly does challenge a performance standard.

Personally, I think rave reviews should be supported by something tangible. If you're going to stand up and claim that whatever you own or just reviewed is the best darned thing that X amount of dollars can buy, then you better have something to back that claim up. You need credentials.

So if you go ahead and claim that there are a pair of $1,500 loudspeakers that can beat everything else within the same price point, I want to know where the heck you're coming from. For anybody to take that kinda claim seriously, there needs to be verifiable evidence to support what you've owned, what you've heard, and whether or not you were able to hear all of those competitive products under ideal circumstances. And by ideal, I'm talking about in a good room, with matching electronics, with everything set up in accordance to each products unique demands. Then and ONLY then should these kind of bold claims carry any merit.

Now if there were a way to enforce this kind of standard, then I think we'd be in good shape. Alas, it's all a pipe dream. My own version of a pipe dream, to be precise..
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Mike said:
For all those bitching about reviews, try writing one yourself one time. Will give you a whole new perspective and shall I say, appreciation.
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Good advice Mike.
Not bitching here, but I have tried, more than once. On records I found it not so difficult somehow and I used to do record reviews for the local scene years ago.
On gear though, not anywhere near easy! I tried a few times just to myself and did not like what I wrote at all. It made almost no sense. it seemed like just a bunch of random thoughts. I have no desire to be a gear reviewer. I will occasionally give my opinion from my ears as a consumer when asked or something of course if I have had any experience or ownership of said piece, but that is far different from an actual review.
There is a lot more that goes into reviewing gear than just writing. One has to be set up for it (good room, ease of swapping, time, etc)and have at least basic knowledge of electronics and acoustics. Me? I have decent knowledge of physics, but not electronics and I do not have a good room or the ability to easily swap gear and I don't have the time either, nor can I write worth a damn. In fact, the only thing I have is knowledge of physics, understanding of music and a pair of ears and that is not enough in my opinion and certainly lacks any qualification to review gear.
 
I wasn't referring to you. Those that want to see a product absolutely thrashed should beg, borrow or buy a product and review it for themselves. You will quickly learn that although no product is perfect, very few are absolute rubbish. What I prefer to look at is value. Is this $24,000 pair of KT88 (yawn) amps worth it? Is the VPI Classic 3 a great value? Are these the best speakers you've heard under $10,000?

Aside from maybe my deHavilland Tape preamp, I can't think of a product that was absolute rubbish and even then, I would argue that I simply had a bad unit and despite attempts to fix the problem, it never worked.

I would love to review some curious/interesting or even suspect products like Meridian's $65,000 powered speakers or the $90,000 MSB DAC.

My expectations of power handling of $500 Magnepan MMG speakers vs $66,000 Raidho D3's is completely different. Cost helps keep expectations in perspective and that's something every reviewer needs to take into account.
 
Mike.......Good post. Although cost does help keep expectations in perspective and is relevant to any review, I like to also consider how a particular priced item, a speaker for conversation's sake, might stand up to one costing twice as much and one costing half as much. In my experience, cost alone is not a truly accurate measuring tool of quality or performance. It can be close at times, and it can just as easily be a manufacturer's pipedream. There are some exciting products out there that stand amazingly close to ultra premium products at substantially less cost. The price to performance ratio would favor these products in many enthusiast's minds. Making a definitive statement on a component's value is subjective at best.

The reviews that drive me crazy are the ones where an individual uses words like "crushes", "destroys", "demolishes", "creams", "stomps on', etc., some other similar component. Those types of descriptors cause me to immediately discount the reviewer's credibility. It turns a review into a comedic event for me.
 
Mike said:
I wasn't referring to you. Those that want to see a product absolutely thrashed should beg, borrow or buy a product and review it for themselves. You will quickly learn that although no product is perfect, very few are absolute rubbish. What I prefer to look at is value. Is this $24,000 pair of KT88 (yawn) amps worth it? Is the VPI Classic 3 a great value? Are these the best speakers you've heard under $10,000?

Aside from maybe my deHavilland Tape preamp, I can't think of a product that was absolute rubbish and even then, I would argue that I simply had a bad unit and despite attempts to fix the problem, it never worked.

I would love to review some curious/interesting or even suspect products like Meridian's $65,000 powered speakers or the $90,000 MSB DAC.

My expectations of power handling of $500 Magnepan MMG speakers vs $66,000 Raidho D3's is completely different. Cost helps keep expectations in perspective and that's something every reviewer needs to take into account.
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Uh oh, I know you weren’t referring to me Mike, I was just sayin.
I agree with what you said here. It’s plain sense.

Yes, I think there is very little out there that are rubbish. I ran across two pieces at Show that I considered to be at least teetering on rubbish if not straight out, but that’s two out of hundreds just there alone. Add the overall number of products and the ratio gets microscopic.

There is a plethora of fine audio products out there that would be great for anyone, not just the uber pricey stuff, but we are starting to see more and more high-end products that are affordable and at high quality. Some makes are starting to get a clue which will increase their business which will continue to lead to better and better products.

Also if only good products are reviewed then what is the point in asking for a negative review? I think if some reviewers only reviewed what is known to be rubbish, then one would expect the reviews to be negative.

What something is worth is in the eye of the beholder. I was talking to someone about speakers last week and the question was posed to me: “so what flavor of ice cream do you like?” What he was saying is that no speaker or any piece of audio gear is perfect, no matter how much money is invested in it or paid for it. It comes down to, what do “you” like. Some folks will think a Maserati is worth every penny because they want fast and powerful while others will think a Ford Focus is worth every penny because they want good mileage and certain features.

What is really amazing to me are the real surprises in keeping things in perspective. A great example are the ELAC Andrew Jones Debut speakers. That is a true, but extreme example. (One has to hear those to believe them).

There is fabulous gear in all ranges and of every walk in my opinion.
 
Double-D said:
Mike.......Good post. Although cost does help keep expectations in perspective and is relevant to any review, I like to also consider how a particular priced item, a speaker for conversation's sake, might stand up to one costing twice as much and one costing half as much. In my experience, cost alone is not a truly accurate measuring tool of quality or performance. It can be close at times, and it can just as easily be a manufacturer's pipedream. There are some exciting products out there that stand amazingly close to ultra premium products at substantially less cost. The price to performance ratio would favor these products in many enthusiast's minds. Making a definitive statement on a component's value is subjective at best.

The reviews that drive me crazy are the ones where an individual uses words like "crushes", "destroys", "demolishes", "creams", "stomps on', etc., some other similar component. Those types of descriptors cause me to immediately discount the reviewer's credibility. It turns a review into a comedic event for me.
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Not only could I not agree more Dan, but I have experienced it.
 
Mike said:
Fremer hammered the Mark Levinson No. 53's and absolutely killed the product. I remember that one.
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Me too! When it came time to trade mine I had to practically give them away. To my ears they were a superb sounding pair of amps. In the end that was all that mattered. I enjoyed them while I had them.

Cincy
 
Cincy2 said:
To my ears they were a superb sounding pair of amps.

Cincy
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I thought so too. I heard them drive Raidho D5's with amazing grip and clarity. And with Salon 2's (the speakers they were voice with), they were exceptionally good.
 
a.wayne.. Nooooo I haven't begun posting my higher quality videos yet!! *le embarrassed*
 
a.wayne said:
So why sell them ...?
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I am a long time Dan D'Agostino fan. Owned almost all of his Krell amps back in the day. He was in limbo the last time I upgraded so a went with Levinson. Once the Momentums were out and in production for a year or two, I went back to him. Fabulous product.

Cincy
 
I have posted a few less than positive reviews on my website. But I always try really, REALLY hard to find the good in a component if I don't like it, and focus on that (just like in real life). I have a letter grade rating on my site, and I think the lowest I have ever scored a product was a 'C', and that was only because the vendor refused to work with me in the efforts to make things better.

If something is truly horrible, I usually won't review it. Especially if it is a small/boutique/independent manufacturer where one negative review can take food off their table. Thankfully this happens very rarely.
 
I totally agree with the view that if a product does gets reviewed and published, it can't be too bad.
 
My mind keeps returning to this single point. A review, whether good, bad, or ugly, is just one individual's opinion. It is about one person playing with one component or pair of speakers, then offering one opinion. In addition, a reviewer's point of view is skewed by many variables unassociated with the reader's situation. A reader is highly unlikely to ever duplicate such things as a reviewer's system components, room acoustics and furnishings, interconnects, speaker cables, racks, isolation, nor the overwhelming subjectivity of hearing that plays into a reviewer's conclusions. Reading audio opinions is entertaining at best and might even pique a person's curiosity, but a printed article is absolutely no substitute for a personal audition of components or speakers, especially in your own sound system if possible. I give zero weight to one writer's opinion over another beyond their individual cleverness to clearly convey thoughts and keep my interest high enough to actually finish reading a review. No matter who puts words to print, it is still a subjective opinion from a single individual, nothing more, nothing less. I don't hang my hat on other people's opinions without a personal audition. Proof sourcing is not opinion based. A perspective audio purchase must please me, not someone else. For me, audio magazines are strictly entertainment. I am not influenced by a glowing report anymore than I am by a mediocre one. When I shop for audio gear my ears are the decision makers, not someone else's published opinion. This may or may not fit your idea of a review's actual worth but it is mine.

That and $12.00 will get you lunch. :cool:
 
Double-D said:
My mind keeps returning to this single point. A review, whether good, bad, or ugly, is just one individual's opinion. It is about one person playing with one component or pair of speakers, then offering one opinion. In addition, a reviewer's point of view is skewed by many variables unassociated with the reader's situation. A reader is highly unlikely to ever duplicate such things as a reviewer's system components, room acoustics and furnishings, interconnects, speaker cables, racks, isolation, nor the overwhelming subjectivity of hearing that plays into a reviewer's conclusions. Reading audio opinions is entertaining at best and might even pique a person's curiosity, but a printed article is absolutely no substitute for a personal audition of components or speakers, especially in your own sound system if possible. I give zero weight to one writer's opinion over another beyond their individual cleverness to clearly convey thoughts and keep my interest high enough to actually finish reading a review. No matter who puts words to print, it is still a subjective opinion from a single individual, nothing more, nothing less. I don't hang my hat on other people's opinions without a personal audition. Proof sourcing is not opinion based. A perspective audio purchase must please me, not someone else. For me, audio magazines are strictly entertainment. I am not influenced by a glowing report anymore than I am by a mediocre one. When I shop for audio gear my ears are the decision makers, not someone else's published opinion. This may or may not fit your idea of a review's actual worth but it is mine. That and $12.00 will get you lunch. :cool:
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Dan I couldn't have written that any better. My feelings exactly.
 
Agreed, well said Dan.

By the way, has anyone ever seen some of the rooms of some of the reviewers? I'll post some pics later. Scary stuff.
 
Mike said:
Agreed, well said Dan.

By the way, has anyone ever seen some of the rooms of some of the reviewers? I'll post some pics later. Scary stuff.
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Feel free to post pictures of my room. I have nothing to hide. As for Dan's comments, reading reviews is like reading the news. It's always best to get as many different view points as you possibly can and hopefully the truth can be ascertained. If I was shopping for a component that I knew I wasn't going to be able to hear before I purchased it, I would seek out as many reviews as possible to read. If all the reviewers said the component was bass shy, or recessed in the midrange, or the highs were bright, you might have something to go on. Ditto for good things they had to say about the same aspects of performance. It's a tough gig as you know Mike.
 
mep said:
Feel free to post pictures of my room. I have nothing to hide. As for Dan's comments, reading reviews is like reading the news. It's always best to get as many different view points as you possibly can and hopefully the truth can be ascertained. If I was shopping for a component that I knew I wasn't going to be able to hear before I purchased it, I would seek out as many reviews as possible to read. If all the reviewers said the component was bass shy, or recessed in the midrange, or the highs were bright, you might have something to go on. Ditto for good things they had to say about the same aspects of performance. It's a tough gig as you know Mike.
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Thanks Mark! I did enjoy my visit to your place. Truly impressive set-up.


Digital front end-----

955%20-%20hikikomori%20neet%20room%20trash.jpg


Listening ("sweet") spot------

941%20-%20hikikomori%20neet%20room%20trash.jpg

We really had a good time. I know sometimes we tease each other a bit here on the forum but he really is a gentleman and knows his stuff.
 
mep said:
Feel free to post pictures of my room. I have nothing to hide. As for Dan's comments, reading reviews is like reading the news. It's always best to get as many different view points as you possibly can and hopefully the truth can be ascertained. If I was shopping for a component that I knew I wasn't going to be able to hear before I purchased it, I would seek out as many reviews as possible to read. If all the reviewers said the component was bass shy, or recessed in the midrange, or the highs were bright, you might have something to go on. Ditto for good things they had to say about the same aspects of performance. It's a tough gig as you know Mike.
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Mark.......No slight on your reviewing prowess intended. I would agree that a three to five review consensus of performance characteristics by unassociated reviewers could be considered a certain level of proof source. I also place value on opinions from known and trusted individuals whom I have experience with and know that their audio notions tend to parallel mine. Still, nothing beats a live audition to determine how new gear sounds, preferably in your own system. That is where the rubber hits the road.
 
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