Need help to choose the right Lumin

S

skbe

New member
Joined
Nov 14, 2019
Messages
177
Location
France
Hi there music lovers and specialists,

I would like to have your advice to choose the right Lumin. I have been doing a lot of research these days. First I thought I need a T2 but basically, I think I need a Lumin D2 or a Lumin U1 mini. But here is the whole story.

My system is modest compared to what you might have but I think it's a decent system:
- Bowers & Wilkins CM8 powered by a Marantz PM6004 amp;
- A Marantz ND8006 (which I use as a DAC only because I really don't appreciate Heos);
- Headphones Sony Z1R powered by a Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone DAC-amp (please note that I will always use this Sony DAC for my headphones).

So now of course I need a Lumin to stream my music.
- 1st scenario I get a Lumin D2 and I use it as a DAC for my CM8 speakers instead of my Marantz ND8006. I will use its coaxial out to run my Sony headphone as a DAC-amp for my Sony headphones.
- 2nd scenario I get a Lumin U1 mini and I use it as a transporter to run my Marantz ND8006 and Sony headphone DAC-amp (most likely via USB for these 2 DACs).

So what's your advice here? A Lumin D2 or a Lumin U1 mini?

Some miscellaneous questions here to help you advise me the right device:
- In the Lumin U1 mini, is it possible to use the 2 USB outputs at the same time? Is there any interference when using 2 USB outputs? Is it preferable to use one USB output and one other output than USB eg. optical or coaxial?
- What is the most recent device? U1 mini or D2? Are the 2 devices well updated and well supported by Lumin?
- Is the Lumin D2 too small? What about the avoidance of electrical interferences in this device? D2 has the same size than U1 mini but it has also a DAC in it.
- Are the 2 devices equally quick to read HiRes music, connect and play Airplay music, connect and play NAS music?
- When the Lumin U1 mini is used to decode MQA music, is the signal that it will send to the Marantz ND8006 already in HiRes-like format and will the Marantz ND8006 handle it as a HiRes-like format (Marantz ND8006 does HiRes of course but not MQA)?

A big thank you for your help.
Best,
skbe
 
Thank you very much Mike. But I would really appreciate some detailed answers to my questions if by chance you have the time to do so. The input of Peter would also be greatly appreciated. Best
 
skbe said:
Hi there music lovers and specialists,

I would like to have your advice to choose the right Lumin. I have been doing a lot of research these days. First I thought I need a T2 but basically, I think I need a Lumin D2 or a Lumin U1 mini. But here is the whole story.

My system is modest compared to what you might have but I think it's a decent system:
- Bowers & Wilkins CM8 powered by a Marantz PM6004 amp;
- A Marantz ND8006 (which I use as a DAC only because I really don't appreciate Heos);
- Headphones Sony Z1R powered by a Sony TA-ZH1ES headphone DAC-amp (please note that I will always use this Sony DAC for my headphones).

So now of course I need a Lumin to stream my music.
- 1st scenario I get a Lumin D2 and I use it as a DAC for my CM8 speakers instead of my Marantz ND8006. I will use its coaxial out to run my Sony headphone as a DAC-amp for my Sony headphones.
- 2nd scenario I get a Lumin U1 mini and I use it as a transporter to run my Marantz ND8006 and Sony headphone DAC-amp (most likely via USB for these 2 DACs).

So what's your advice here? A Lumin D2 or a Lumin U1 mini?

LUMIN D2

Some miscellaneous questions here to help you advise me the right device:
- In the Lumin U1 mini, is it possible to use the 2 USB outputs at the same time? Is there any interference when using 2 USB outputs? Is it preferable to use one USB output and one other output than USB eg. optical or coaxial?

Yes you can.

- What is the most recent device? U1 mini or D2? Are the 2 devices well updated and well supported by Lumin?

Both came out about the same time.

- Is the Lumin D2 too small? What about the avoidance of electrical interferences in this device? D2 has the same size than U1 mini but it has also a DAC in it.

Hey man, at this price point, trade off’s have to be made. The PSU is internal. Don’t worry about electrical interferences. Just don’t stack it on another power supply or power conditioner.

- Are the 2 devices equally quick to read HiRes music, connect and play Airplay music, connect and play NAS music?

Yes. Same speed. Fast.

- When the Lumin U1 mini is used to decode MQA music, is the signal that it will send to the Marantz ND8006 already in HiRes-like format and will the Marantz ND8006 handle it as a HiRes-like format (Marantz ND8006 does HiRes of course but not MQA)?

It will be 2/3 of full unfold MQA. In this scenario.

A big thank you for your help.
Best,
skbe
Click to expand...

See my answers above. Are there no Lumin dealers in France?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike said:
- When the Lumin U1 mini is used to decode MQA music, is the signal that it will send to the Marantz ND8006 already in HiRes-like format and will the Marantz ND8006 handle it as a HiRes-like format (Marantz ND8006 does HiRes of course but not MQA)?

It will be 2/3 of full unfold MQA. In this scenario.
Click to expand...

Mike thanks again. Can you please be more precise about this.
What 2/3 of full unfold means?
We are in scenario 2 ie Lumin U1 mini as a transporter and Marantz ND8006 as a DAC. You say that full MQA decoding is better in D2 than U1 doing it and sending it already decoded and prepared to Marantz ND8006?

Thanks!
 
skbe said:
Mike thanks again. Can you please be more precise about this.
What 2/3 of full unfold means?
We are in scenario 2 ie Lumin U1 mini as a transporter and Marantz ND8006 as a DAC. You say that full MQA decoding is better in D2 than U1 doing it and sending it already decoded and prepared to Marantz ND8006?

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You need to research MQA. Tidal does first unfold. Computer/Lumin does second unfold. Your Marantz will not do the third and final unfold. The Lumin D2 will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Mike said:
You need to research MQA. Tidal does first unfold. Computer/Lumin does second unfold. Your Marantz will not do the third and final unfold. The Lumin D2 will.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Thanks. I think you answered the question undirectly. U1 mini does not do full unfold (ie the last third unfold in your example) of MQA ready to be read by the Marantz. You confirm?
 
skbe said:
Thanks. I think you answered the question undirectly. U1 mini does not do full unfold (ie the last third unfold in your example) of MQA ready to be read by the Marantz. You confirm?
Click to expand...

Confirmed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Question to all. What is the importance of this 3rd unfold?
Does it really matter?
 
Well Lumin U1 mini it will be
Qobuz 1 - Tidal 0
France is the champion!!! :) (in soccer too!)
 
skbe said:
Question to all. What is the importance of this 3rd unfold?
Does it really matter?
Click to expand...

It’s the most important. It takes you to the highest res of the MQA album.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
skbe - For full MQA decoding the final unfold is DAC specific, so a device like the U1 Mini which is effectively a digital transport is unable to provide the final unfold. Here's a good basic explanation of the MQA process, including MQA Core and Rendering. Of course everything matters in audio, and without the third unfold you will not recover the full resolution of the digital file as detailed in the link provided. Hope this helps!
 
Between the D2 and U1 MINI, I also think D2 is perhaps better for you.

- U1 MINI: Only one USB output is active at any time. When USB audio output is being used, the other coaxial / toslink / AES should not be used.
- U1 MINI is newer than D2. All Lumin models receive firmware updates.
- Both devices are functionally similar in terms of HiRes, Tidal, Qobuz, Spotify Connect, AirPlay, Roon Ready and how they're controlled for playback from NAS.

For the MQA, I'll use the official MQA terminology so it'll be different.

D2 does full MQA decoding to analog outputs.

For D2 BNC-SPDIF output and U1 MINI all digital outputs, Lumin can perform MQA Core decoding (first unfold) to output 88.2kHz or 96kHz, which can be fed into another non-MQA DAC (or a MQA Renderer DAC).

This is because the final MQA rendering can only be done to analog outputs that is optimized for individual DAC hardware implementation profile. As for Core decoding vs full decoding: the Core decoding recovers the musical information embedded in the MQA format, and the final rendering gives you more MQA sound signature than no rendering.

If you primarily use Qobuz and don't subscribe to Tidal, and have no MQA CD rips, then this does not matter.

Note that for playback of MQA and DSD, D2 analog output and BNC-SPDIF output are not simultaneously active. Only one can be used.
 
As it happens, we have a D2 right next to an ND8006. Since you haven't described a need for the different digital output options of the U1 Mini, the D2 essentially lets you use it as both a streamer with digital out to the ND8006 or as a streaming DAC. In other words, the D2 provides more functionality at a very modest cost.

Specifically with respect to your two scenarios, the ND8006 and D2 sound different. So ideally you might bring your ND8006 in to a Lumin dealer to compare the DAC between the two. Or having both the ND8006 and D2, you would be able to switch back and forth as desired, and perhaps you have use for other ND8006 functionality like the CD player.
 
Roon does my first unfolding and my Lumin D2 does the second. I'm also using an Sbooser BOTW MK II linear power suppler and it really enhances the openness and bass extension of the D2.
 
Tubes said:
Roon does my first unfolding and my Lumin D2 does the second. I'm also using an Sbooser BOTW MK II linear power suppler and it really enhances the openness and bass extension of the D2.
Click to expand...

By default with no DSP configured, Roon would let D2 perform both MQA Core decoding and MQA rendering.

With Roon MQA Capabilities for Lumin D2 set to "Renderer Only", then Roon will do the Core decoding and the D2 will do the MQA rendering.

(Which steps are done where can be checked in the Roon signal path display.)

Have you compared both methods or did you hear a difference?
 
Yes Peter, I have tried both configurations and I prefer it when my D2 is set to renderer only.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top