the professor
Well-known member
- Thread Author
- #1
Myth of Continual Improvement
- Thread starter the professor
- Start date
Melbguy1
Guest
- Joined
- Sep 14, 2016
- Messages
- 900
I agree almost 100% with Jeff's comments. I'd just suggest that not every superseded component could or should be described as a "classic". I'd like to think my Magico S5 Mk2's + SPods have what it takes to join that exclusive club, but only time will tell..
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,111
I understand the point Jeff was trying to make, but it doesn't change the fact that there is real continuous improvement in this hobby. That doesn't mean that the newest gadget will make the one it replaced "sound broken" as Jeff said, but it damn sure could sound considerably better.
Mark, you nailed it. Subsequently, when I was Joe Consumer, I hated when I called a dealer and he would say "you own XYZ? That's sh!t." I'm so careful now to never criticize anyone's choice in gear. I JUST got off the phone with a guy who has PrimaLuna (very good stuff) and Legacy speakers (not my cup of tea). He wanted to talk turntables, phonostages and cartridges. He has been stocking up on Music Matters Blue Note reissues (a man after my own heart) and has nothing to play them on. When someone has invested real time and real money into putting together a system, the last thing they want to hear is that you don't care for their speakers, amp or whatever. Find something nice to say. I said, "those sure are big speakers and I always see Legacy at the prominent shows in the U.S." His tone changed from one of cautious reserve to happiness.
I remember when the S3 mk2 was announced. There was much flapping here. Some cried fowl. Others were ready to throw the baby out with the bath water. I reminded those that the S3 mk1 is still one heck of a good speaker. I see the S3 mk2 as a more refined speaker, yes, but so is the 2017 BMW M4 over the 2014 BMW M4. But the 2014 M4 is still a blast to drive.
There are always areas for improvement in ones system and progress is always being made by the manufacturers. Hang around them and you will see they are passionate and nerdy. They are always thinking of ways to improve their products - it's natural instinct.
There are very few times I could say the next model made the previous model sound broken (I can think of one: VAC phi 200 vs Signature 200iq --- I owned both and I'm sorry, there's NO CONTEST. The Sig 200iQ is light years better.) I've heard from several people the upgraded D'Agostino amps are quite a bit better than the originals. But the list is ultimately pretty short.
the professor
Well-known member
- Thread Author
- #5
I agree Mike.
It is very fun to listen to some 20-30 year old gear and realize that it really is pretty good. I think it's easy to think that because it's so many versions ago that it's not as good as it is. Of course, there is also a lot of older gear that sounds pretty rough compared to what is available today.
It is very fun to listen to some 20-30 year old gear and realize that it really is pretty good. I think it's easy to think that because it's so many versions ago that it's not as good as it is. Of course, there is also a lot of older gear that sounds pretty rough compared to what is available today.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
The vintage guys must be smiling.
I say buy whatever makes one happy, even if it makes no audible difference at all.
I say buy whatever makes one happy, even if it makes no audible difference at all.
mep
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2013
- Messages
- 5,111
I can guarantee that if you buy a new pair of speakers or a new phono cartridge there will be an immediate audible difference. If you switch from tubes to SS or SS to tubes, there will also be an audible difference.
AJ Soundfield
Well-known member
I believe that the biggest changes are in the digital/electronic components and speakers.
Electronics like CD players, DACs, and digital preamps experience the most changes as digital technology keeps changing. They will also lose the most value as a result. And come to think of it CD Players are actually becoming obsolete as more folks go the streaming route!
Speakers have experienced a fair amount of changes and will likely continue to do so. Speaker manufactures push for new shapes/designs and use of new materials (graphene anyone?). Yet, even for speakers, don't expect a major change from a mark I to a mark II, despite what manufacturers want you to believe. If the changes were so drastic, they would have called it something else!
Amplifiers, analog preamps, and turntables are likely to experience the least amount of changes (Linn has been selling the LP12 for 40 years!). A good amp is a good amp, physics has not changed!
There is a lot of hype in this hobby. Customers just need to be aware.
Electronics like CD players, DACs, and digital preamps experience the most changes as digital technology keeps changing. They will also lose the most value as a result. And come to think of it CD Players are actually becoming obsolete as more folks go the streaming route!
Speakers have experienced a fair amount of changes and will likely continue to do so. Speaker manufactures push for new shapes/designs and use of new materials (graphene anyone?). Yet, even for speakers, don't expect a major change from a mark I to a mark II, despite what manufacturers want you to believe. If the changes were so drastic, they would have called it something else!
Amplifiers, analog preamps, and turntables are likely to experience the least amount of changes (Linn has been selling the LP12 for 40 years!). A good amp is a good amp, physics has not changed!
There is a lot of hype in this hobby. Customers just need to be aware.
a.wayne
Well-known member
Does streaming Redbook sound any better than a CDP, doubt that alot ! streaming is about convenience, same as it was for the CDP vs the TT and the TT is still here, some 40 yrs later ...
In my system streaming CD quality music (Tidal) and playing the same music with my CD Player sound equally good. I personally cannot tell a difference when going through the same DAC.
There is a difference between playing/streaming music and playing the same music with a TT.
Jack
Active member
In my system it is TT, CDP then streaming in that order all tested with the same titles and releases. I don't compare original issue vinyl to remastered versions in other formats or remastered vinyl to other formats.
Bobvin
Active member
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2013
- Messages
- 1,068
And it is interesting that Fremer points out, in his Alexx review, Wilson is using doped paper cones vs newer exotic materials (graphene!). And the silk convergent synergy tweeter! It is still fundamentally intriguing that as much as we've considered tech to have advanced everything, needles still track grooves to produce a wee-little-bit of current, which runs through a vacuum tube (if you are so persuaded), to move a coil in a magnet to make sounds. And those sounds I often find very pleasing indeed.
KeithR
Active member
That's interesting Mike - as I had the Phi 200 and it didn't last but a few weeks in my system. Quite frankly my Mac 601s sounded better and possibly even more tube-like. It was really weird.
I also think that the newer ARC gear is *much* improved over the past 10 years of whitish/SS sound.
I do not agree with the above statement at all.
If you buy lost of music and never listen to it you are a collector. Nothing wrong with that.
But someone who has 100LPs and a 100k audio system can be a music lover just as well as someone who own a 100k albums and 100$ system.
If someone is really into some niche music. Then don't expect them to buy lost of music.