My Munich Notes with Western Electric Lowdown and music

[bonzo]

1. Most rooms were disappointing
2. Western Electric was fabulous, but more on that in the next post
3. Vivid Giya G2 sounded very good, great bass, seamless crossovers, soundstaging, dynamics. Did Mahler 2 explosion open large scale without any problems. Backed by expensive CH Precision boxes and Techdas AF3
4. Lots of Techdas around. The TT has great density, weight, and texture. Throughout the show, TTs sounded better than digital.
5. Steinheim backed by CHP gear and Zensati cables sounded very good. They played an entire Ravel Bolero LP, where you could hear instrument by instrument, cluster by cluster, till it got into the large dynamics
6. TAD had a structured program where they played lounge music for the first 30 minutes. Like one guy commented, I felt like I am stuck in an elevator with a hifi system. But then they played Led Zep's Babe I am gonna leave you, so all is forgiven. Then they moved to classical. Those CR1 standamounts pack a lot
7. My favorite speaker Tune Audio Anima didn't sound good on Saturday, but opened up on today (Sunday). It was the only room WE aside that had no treatment and were just playing loads of classical and opera.
8. The 100k Live Act speakers at the other show in Mariott sounded good.
9. I should have listened to Blumenhofer more
10. MBL played lounge friendly elevator music.
11. Vox sounded creamy and buttery, but not very real

The WE pic

 

[bonzo]

Last year, they had brought the top of the line WE http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...l=1#post267218, this year they brought in the bottom of the line WEs. Still outdid all other hifi IMO. Listening to these speakers changes perspective. All other speakers sound like hifi - as other speakers get better, crossovers improve, things seem more seamless, but they all sound smooth. Some sound so smooth that the brass instruments sound like the flute or the clarinet. The Western Electric is real. The texture is to die for. The soundstage is deep, like a real stage. You can hear the imperfections in the crossovers,but they sound real, like those in a concert hall.

The smaller WEs, which are GIP labs reproductions of the WEs, were sitting flat on their base on the floor, you could feel the vibrations and all, yet they sounded magical

I have never heard violin before, anywhere like what I heard on the following LP in the WE room.

The following voice was to die for

I have heard Schubert's Winterriese live twice, but this vocalist was something else.

The two pianos sounded great on the smaller WEs.

Maria Callas' vocals were so raw and real

 

[bonzo]

The pricing for the GIP labs reproduction of WE ranges from 24k EUR to 200k EUR at least.

 

[bonzo]

Well, part of the reason I went to Munich was to listen to these WE speakers - I had done all the other speakers last year - so in two days I spent around 5 hours just listening to music in this room. The Tune Audio Anima also is not a hifi speaker, but I find the timbre very real. The brass, the violins...

The 15k EUR Schick TT was killing the Scarlatti everytime in this room. The Silbaton amps were monos, each WE valve costs over 10k

 

[Myles B. Astor]

Last year, they had brought the top of the line WE http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showth...l=1#post267218, this year they brought in the bottom of the line WEs. Still outdid all other hifi IMO. Listening to these speakers changes perspective. All other speakers sound like hifi - as other speakers get better, crossovers improve, things seem more seamless, but they all sound smooth. Some sound so smooth that the brass instruments sound like the flute or the clarinet. The Western Electric is real. The texture is to die for. The soundstage is deep, like a real stage. You can hear the imperfections in the crossovers,but they sound real, like those in a concert hall.

The smaller WEs, which are GIP labs reproductions of the WEs, were sitting flat on their base on the floor, you could feel the vibrations and all, yet they sounded magical

I have never heard violin before, anywhere like what I heard on the following LP in the WE room.

The following voice was to die for

I have heard Schubert's Winterriese live twice, but this vocalist was something else.

The two pianos sounded great on the smaller WEs.

Maria Callas' vocals were so raw and real

If you think the Decca reissue sounds good, you should hear the original SXL release or the TP 15 ips R2R release. I think though The RCA Heifitz release has the Bruch beat on performance and is as good sonically.

 

[Mike]

1. Most rooms were disappointing
2. Western Electric was fabulous, but more on that in the next post
3. Vivid Giya G2 sounded very good, great bass, seamless crossovers, soundstaging, dynamics. Did Mahler 2 explosion open large scale without any problems. Backed by expensive CH Precision boxes and Techdas AF3
4. Lots of Techdas around. The TT has great density, weight, and texture. Throughout the show, TTs sounded better than digital.
5. Steinheim backed by CHP gear and Zensati cables sounded very good. They played an entire Ravel Bolero LP, where you could hear instrument by instrument, cluster by cluster, till it got into the large dynamics
6. TAD had a structured program where they played lounge music for the first 30 minutes. Like one guy commented, I felt like I am stuck in an elevator with a hifi system. But then they played Led Zep's Babe I am gonna leave you, so all is forgiven. Then they moved to classical. Those CR1 standamounts pack a lot
7. My favorite speaker Tune Audio Anima didn't sound good on Saturday, but opened up on today (Sunday). It was the only room WE aside that had no treatment and were just playing loads of classical and opera.
8. The 100k Live Act speakers at the other show in Mariott sounded good.
9. I should have listened to Blumenhofer more
10. MBL played lounge friendly elevator music.
11. Vox sounded creamy and buttery, but not very real

The WE pic

What are those huge black boxes flanking the Western Electric speakers?

 

[bonzo]

What are those huge black boxes flanking the Western Electric speakers?

The black speakers are WE, and by flanking if you mean those things at either side, they are not boxes but Wings - flat things. Not sure what their purpose is.

The brown speakers are the GIP reproduction of WE, pricing given in my third post. 83k EUR for that pair.

These are the original WE they brought last year. Western Electric's first hifi speaker

 

[Mike]

 

[Audioseduction]

Mike, what's that black thing as your avatar? Looks kind of like a laser printer.

 

[Mike]

Mike, what's that black thing as your avatar? Looks kind of like a laser printer.

The Air Tight Statement amp.

 

[Audioseduction]

The Air Tight Statement amp.

Are they class A amps?

 

[Joe Roberts]

After hearing that Oistrakh SXL 5 million times at shows over the years, I pretty much prefer it to the Heifetz. Unforuntatly, only the rare original offers up the best sound. The Callas we played was British Columbia 1st pressing material. Here again the reissues just don't achieve the same excitement, but I bought the HD Tracks FLACs of the recent Warner remasterings and they are a reasonable second place (better than the CDs). The amp with the tubes worth more than my Volvo was a stereo WE 252A amp. The globe mesh 252As are $10000 each easy, if there are any but there aren't. This tube was the predecessor of the WE 300B and only used in the WE 59B amp c.1927-29. The 59B is not a great WE amp so we decided to build one to optimize for this tube. Actually, 300B is plug compatible and the matching amp had a pair of engraved 1930s 300Bs in it. We used the 300B version to run the GIPs. I really wanted to compare the two on the same speaker but oops I forgot in the haze of Bavarian bier...

 

[joeinid]

Welcome to the forum Joe, thank you for joining.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I found the WE room to be lacking this year, just a touch bland sounding on my reference track (Vanessa Fernandez), I preferred the Voxativ Arpeggio Duo and the Living Voice room. The WE just sounded a little too vintage movie theater to me. It was good on voice but still not up to the Living Voice room. Different strokes for different folks. Last year's WE system was far superior.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

After hearing that Oistrakh SXL 5 million times at shows over the years, I pretty much prefer it to the Heifetz. Unforuntatly, only the rare original offers up the best sound. The Callas we played was British Columbia 1st pressing material. Here again the reissues just don't achieve the same excitement, but I bought the HD Tracks FLACs of the recent Warner remasterings and they are a reasonable second place (better than the CDs). The amp with the tubes worth more than my Volvo was a stereo WE 252A amp. The globe mesh 252As are $10000 each easy, if there are any but there aren't. This tube was the predecessor of the WE 300B and only used in the WE 59B amp c.1927-29. The 59B is not a great WE amp so we decided to build one to optimize for this tube. Actually, 300B is plug compatible and the matching amp had a pair of engraved 1930s 300Bs in it. We used the 300B version to run the GIPs. I really wanted to compare the two on the same speaker but oops I forgot in the haze of Bavarian bier...

Actually the 15 ips TP R2R offers up the best sound. If you really want to hear the beauty of the violin that is though some feel it is a bit too spot lit. Larry where are you?

I sat just a couple of weeks ago listening to and comparing the two violin performances with Sid Marks and we both (Sid quite fervently) felt the Heifitz was clearly better musically. Different strokes for different folks. OTOH, I really like the Hindemith VC maybe a bit more.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Actually the 15 ips TP R2R offers up the best sound. If you really want to hear the beauty of the violin that is though some feel it is a bit too spot lit. Larry where are you?

I sat just a couple of weeks ago listening to and comparing the two violin performances with Sid Marks and we both (Sid quite fervently) felt the Heifitz was clearly better musically. Different strokes for different folks. OTOH, I really like the Hindemith VC maybe a bit more.

I agree that the Heifitz is better; and that is comparing a 15ips 1/4" dub of the RCA Heifitz to the Tape Project 15ips 1/4". but i'm no classical guru, just a fan.

 

[Joe Roberts]

I found the WE room to be lacking this year, just a touch bland sounding on my reference track (Vanessa Fernandez), I preferred the Voxativ Arpeggio Duo and the Living Voice room. The WE just sounded a little too vintage movie theater to me. It was good on voice but still not up to the Living Voice room. Different strokes for different folks. Last year's WE system was far superior.

What the heck does "too vintage movie theater" mean and how do you know?:snicker:

That said, I too preferred last year's large scale rig by a small margin and I will note that many liked this year's more. I sense that classical listeners may have been more biased toward this year's, while last year's 12A/13A played the hell out of Led Zeppelin and such...and was generally more dynamic.

Nobody has/can get any of these two systems so it is strictly academic anyway...

I did not hear the Living Voice but two trusted professionals told me it was off this year, when we all know they usually sound quite good.

Goes to show that internet reports are not worth the paper they are written on!~~~

Taste conquers all.

 

[Peter Breuninger]

I'll have my UHA deck after Newport and I can't wait to join the discussions!

 

[Peter Breuninger]

Sorry Joe, but I call em as I sees em.

You got the skin in this game, no disrespect intended.

 

[bonzo]

I found the WE room to be lacking this year, just a touch bland sounding on my reference track (Vanessa Fernandez), I preferred the Voxativ Arpeggio Duo and the Living Voice room. The WE just sounded a little too vintage movie theater to me. It was good on voice but still not up to the Living Voice room. Different strokes for different folks. Last year's WE system was far superior.

Of course it wasn't as good as the big ones from last year, as these were the bottom of the line WEs. I have posted the link to last year's in my second post on the thread. I have heard the Voxativs in a proper home set up (review on the site in my horn porn series) and they are too digital sounding from me. They soundstage well, are crossoverless and go down, but just not real. The Living Voice was too creamy and buttery, smooth, sure, but where brass sounds closer to a flute than to brass. The Tune Audio Animas I rate much better though they didn't sound good at the show.