My lying ears!

Great thread Keith. A lot of this hobby is not what we think it is, and its always vaguely disturbing to pull back the veil on all our decision making....
 
a.wayne said:
You are taking Nelson out of context , dig deeper , the answer is closer than you think ...
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Really? Hardly! When the quote and contribution came directly from Nelson? No you need to dig out. And read the contributions from other noted designers too.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Really?
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Yes, really. If he truly believes "unknown" measures correlate to sounds, then he's either very lucky or an alchemist, for designing, engineering and manufacturing that "sound" into his products.
Having difficulty with that concept Myles?
Please feel free to give alternate explanations as to how these "unknowns" are deliberately designed, engineered and manufactured into electro-acoustic products then, TIA.

cheers,

AJ
 
Mike said:
Do you remember the magic rocks trick Bart played on the group? He told everyone the rocks he put on the amps improved the sound. Some even said "yeah, I can hear the difference!" We were laughing because he just grabbed them from his garden. That was funny.
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Don't remember, but that's still pretty funny.:D
You know, audio is supposed to be fun.
Can't say I haven't played a few fun tricks, including on myself.:lol:

cheers,

AJ
 
Geardaddy said:
Audio is ultimately alchemy by definition because of the X-factor....us....
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Quite true, though unrelated to electrical output of the device...and more the electrical activity of the brain.

Whats wrong with just subjectively liking the sound of something. Without any need of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo mystical magic BS objective explanations, as to why?
 
Wow, I leave for a couple days and you guys have all this fun without me. I thought it was in the bylaws that arguing existentialism (or nonsense) on AS was strictly forbidden without my involvement.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
"Measurements are helpful at illustrating the differences between design approaches, but they are certainly not the last word in audio. If they were, then numerous other approaches would sound as good or better."

Nelson Pass
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I revert back to my post in the beginning of the thread. All measurements certainly are NOT created equally. Some have tremendous value and some are largely meaningless. The low distortion car amp versus a Lamm amp with some wonderful second harmonic distortion being a perfect example. That certainly does not refute the importance of measurements however. It simply calls for reasonable discretion in using them as a tool.

FlexibleAudio said:
What's the old saying about "lies, damn lies and statistics." Stats or specs used in the wrong way are deceptive. Some measurements correlate very nicely to my sound preferences and I pay attention to them. Some don't and I generally ignore them.

A full band width, flat response curve for an integrated system and room is a good example of something important to me. SNR is another. Impedance matching is critical in matching sources, pre amps and amps etc.

Others stats like THD mean very little to me. I would rather have some distortion in an amp (particularly 2nd harmonic) than one with a loads of poorly executed negative feedback and super low distortion. Even power ratings like watts per channel aren't very telling. I would rather see peak outputs for voltage and amps if I had to choose just between the two.

I guess what I am saying, imo measurements matter if they matter and don't if they don't. I know that sounds silly but I think its mistaken to draw a conclusions about the entire concept, one way or the other. I thinks some tend to dismiss them dogmatically as being totally irrelevant to better sound. I think that works to there disadvantage. I think others hang there hats on irrelevant numbers and convince themselves they hear a difference. I know I have done both at one time or another.
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There is only one way to get live sound in your listening room. Hire a band to set up and play there. Everything else is a reproduction, a facsimile, and as such it is essentially an inaccurate copy of the original performance and will remain so no matter what choice of amplifiers, source components, DAC's, DSP, and speakers one chooses to assemble. There is only one "real" and it doesn't come on vinyl, silver discs, or data files.


sofar-sounds-slider.jpg
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Quite true, though unrelated to electrical output of the device...and more the electrical activity of the brain.

Whats wrong with just subjectively liking the sound of something. Without any need of pseudo-scientific mumbo jumbo mystical magic BS objective explanations, as to why?
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I guess nothing, but what if its placebo? My experience is if there is no logical basis for something in the physical world it likely doesn't exist in the physical world. That doesn't mean its bad, I guess, if it makes someone happy.


Quote Originally Posted by Rayooo View Post

............. In a couple months I'll know if changing the light bulb in the garage to an Audiophile Quantum LED one actually did improve the stereo as was suggested in the latest edition of Super Duper Audiophile Tweak Magazine.
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FlexibleAudio said:
Do you have a link for this magazine subscription? My garage appears to have cast a veil over my listening room, my witch doctor fell off her broom, and my HFT's aren't getting me quite there.

New Product: Synergistic Research HFT 2.0 & HFT X | Synergistic Research
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Double-D said:
There is only one way to get live sound in your listening room. Hire a band to set up and play there. Everything else is a reproduction, a facsimile, and as such it is essentially an inaccurate copy of the original performance and will remain so no matter what choice of amplifiers, source components, DAC's, DSP, and speakers one chooses to assemble. There is only one "real" and it doesn't come on vinyl, silver discs, or data files.


sofar-sounds-slider.jpg
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Exactly. I'm ok with my semblances and illusions created by my systems, but under no delusions as to the real thing when I go here. Even the recitals in the side practice rooms are quite humbling!

cheers,

AJ
 
Double-D said:
There is only one way to get live sound in your listening room. Hire a band to set up and play there. Everything else is a reproduction, a facsimile, and as such it is essentially an inaccurate copy of the original performance and will remain so no matter what choice of amplifiers, source components, DAC's, DSP, and speakers one chooses to assemble. There is only one "real" and it doesn't come on vinyl, silver discs, or data files.


sofar-sounds-slider.jpg
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While I agree with your sentiment, the "real thing" is still a facsimile of sorts that is created in part by cheap pro equipment and a room with dubious acoustics. But, if you are a weed-fueled hipster, its all good....
 
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