My cheapest phono stage setup is the best ? what gives !

ohbythebay

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Many of you know I have been on an MC phono stage quest. BUDGET is an object for me so I have gone up to several hundred dollars but in the end..my very best sounding phono stage ? An AT630 SUT (avg used price $70) into my $39 ART DJ PRE II...SERIOUS

I have tried
NAD 1130
Pro-ject Tube Box
Cambridge Audio Azure 640p
HTMCPS (a custom designed op amp type PS)

And from the beginning (and now) the above AT to ART combo sounds the best. I am not kidding.
No Hum or Hiss - check
Beautiful detail and separation - check
Imaging and soundstage - check
Bass sounds like instruments not booms - check

So basically, should I just call it good? I mean I have looked at a $299 phono stage (the Vista) and a $500 (The Jasmine) but what if I like my setup better ? I would be wasting money...

And I am NOT going to spend $1000 or more on a phono stage

I looked at the NANO and saw some reviews that concerned me.

So am I too picky...should I leave it be? Why can't they make an great sounding and INEXPENSIVE MC stage like they do MM..?

Sigh
 
This is your best bet IMO:

http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/mus_surr_pgs/mslsurr_PhonomII.html

Phonomena II
($600)

The sequel to the original Michael Yee design, the Phonomena II is based on the latest discrete circuitry of the top-flight Nova Phonomena, minus the battery pack. It’s supremely flexible and easily adjustable via rear-panel gain and loading DIP-switches.

Like the original Phonomena it exhibited wonderful bass extension, with a kind of gravity that fleshed out the bottom octaves—a characteristic unique among the products reviewed in this survey. It was a bit cooler and brasher on brass fortissimos, but its sound was alive with dynamic energy. The bloom from bass drums was stunning in extension and decay. Warnes’ vocal during “If It Be Your Will” was slightly chilly at peaks, but the detailing and focus of the hard-panned acoustic guitars were exhilarating. Though I found the Phonomena II’s perspective slightly forward, during Holly Cole’s rendition of “Take Me Home” it produced a thrillingly wide vocal image—a standout in this group—revealing every nuance in Cole’s expressive voice. It wasn’t as butterscotch-smooth as the JR Transrotor seems to be, but some may prefer the Phonomena for its greater transient speed. It also might be the quietest phonostage of the group. Personally I would have liked to hear a little less brightening of the massed string sections during the fourth movement of Solti and the Chicago Symphony’s rendition of the BeethovenNinth [Decca], but this is a quibble.

There’s no limit to how far a lot of money can take you in the high end; superior dynamism and low-level resolution do exist. But for balance and value the Phonomena II is a stunner.
 
I tried the ART to track down a hum in my vinyl rig, turns out it was the cart.

My impressions, it didn't sound terrible, but very flat. As if there were no dynamics and the separation wasn't anything special.

I use a Jolida phono pre with upgraded filter caps, loading caps and resistors. Even stock, it should sound leaps and bounds better than the ART, without any of the negatives you stated above.
 
Rob I asked Boris today when I was talking to him about you wanting to run on battery power. He said that it was possible to run the Vista on dual batteries he would just need to know when it was ordered. You might want to just e-mail him and see what he has to say. Plus pm Den on the other site or at AC, as he has owned all of the ones you are looking and talking about.
 
Thanks guys...

Once again Jeff comes to my rescue as he has one for me to try...

Thanks Mike, Thanks Jack...Face...you sort of prove my point though..You have a modified Jolida and it SHOULD be leaps and bounds over the ART ..look at the differential in price....I don't find the ART flat at all...

Recently, some folks who rated the ART as "ok" went back and revisted with a variety of carts...they really had second (better opinions). It is an MM phono stage, but with the AT SUT in front of it..wow...synergy for my MC cart...and I truly wonder if that is why I have had issues with other low to medium priced stages...they are not treating the cart right up front...

Anyway, I think that anything doable under $500 and is awesome sounding is rare and this is such a key piece of the vinyl analog experience...

Hoping the VIsta works out..if not, I may pull up my big boy pants and try Mike's suggestion...

Thanks to all...

Know what would be cool? A list of phono stages(MC/MM) say from $200 to $2000? List their qualities...
 
Rob, I'll be getting the MS Phonomena II to go with my Concept. Of course I have nothing to compare it to but I'll let you know how it sounds anyway. Stay tuned...:baby:
 
I had a bit of this same feeling with my little, humble, used, DB-systems DB-8. While more money than the ART (which I have not heard) it's still relatively humble in the world of phono stages. It certainly beat every built in stage in my vintage gear, including tube stuff like an ARC Sp-3a1. And then I bought a Marantz Reference SC-11s1 preamp with a nice built in phono stage. At first I thought the DB unit was better but the more I listened to the Marantz, what it did grew on me and then when I tried to go back to the DB it sounded veiled and lacked detail. I eventually got an Klyne preamp which was noticeably better and much more adjustable than the DB (and Marantz, all around), then a Juicy Music Tercell II tubed phono pre that was better, in some ways, than the Klyne. Still, the other day I found myself with a Plinius Hautonga integrated on loan, and when I compared the excellent stage in the Plinius with the DB...it still held up relatively well. Its a very nice unit for the price that has been part of some of my favorite vinyl setups here. I never have any thought of getting rid of it, because it would cost more money to have a capable back-up around here. I use a Dynavector SUT with it when running LOMC. I'd like to hear the ART with some of my carts. Its certainly cheap enough to try.
 
I had a bit of this same feeling with my little, humble, used, DB-systems DB-8. While more money than the ART (which I have not heard) it's still relatively humble in the world of phono stages. It certainly beat every built in stage in my vintage gear, including tube stuff like an ARC Sp-3a1. And then I bought a Marantz Reference SC-11s1 preamp with a nice built in phono stage. At first I thought the DB unit was better but the more I listened to the Marantz, what it did grew on me and then when I tried to go back to the DB it sounded veiled and lacked detail. I eventually got an Klyne preamp which was noticeably better and much more adjustable than the DB (and Marantz, all around), then a Juicy Music Tercell II tubed phono pre that was better, in some ways, than the Klyne. Still, the other day I found myself with a Plinius Hautonga integrated on loan, and when I compared the excellent stage in the Plinius with the DB...it still held up relatively well. Its a very nice unit for the price that has been part of some of my favorite vinyl setups here. I never have any thought of getting rid of it, because it would cost more money to have a capable back-up around here. I use a Dynavector SUT with it when running LOMC. I'd like to hear the ART with some of my carts. Its certainly cheap enough to try.

John...first .glad you made it over.

Compared to what you are using, the ART may be below..but certainly in the range I have been testing, my best combo has been SUT to the ART. So you would want to use it with your dynavector SUT for a LOMC or just straight up for a MM. I like the 100pf setting on mine

It is certainly better than the built in phono of my Marantz SR4023, better combo than a lot.

And I would really try a $600 phono stage but if disappointed, would want an option to return easily (Amazon is the only one really good about that) but I really hate doing that ...anyway...will try what Jeff sends and will report back !!!

Oh...when you try the ART, pay close attention to the detail of the instruments..how they sound like instruments and nut blurred..like the bass drum, snare, guitar type , tambourine...
 
I wish you lived closer Rob...lots of toys here to compare and contrast with not a care as to what they cost or didn't. I was running that Dual I got from you this morning with the Shure V-15vmr into the Juicy Music Tercell II thinking "I could really live with this and be happy" despite having yet another turntable on its way here, to add to the stack/museum (Sansui SR-929). I'm as happy with the Dual as I was the VPI/Zyx combo. I'm starting to become one of those horrid TT guys that things the phono stage is more important than the table :). The Tercell II is that good. The Dual 721/Shure into that is much better than the VPI/Zyx into the Accuphase E303's phono stage, though the VPI/Zyx is better when they're both on the Tercel, by a bit and not by as much as I'd like given the relative cost differences involved. So much of it is system/cart/arm/stage synergy.

Its been a fun day here...have about $3500 worth of toys on loan from the shop my friend owns, just so I can audition a line-stage pre on a level playing ground, haha.
 
I wish you lived closer Rob...lots of toys here to compare and contrast with not a care as to what they cost or didn't. I was running that Dual I got from you this morning with the Shure V-15vmr into the Juicy Music Tercell II thinking "I could really live with this and be happy" despite having yet another turntable on its way here, to add to the stack/museum (Sansui SR-929). I'm as happy with the Dual as I was the VPI/Zyx combo. I'm starting to become one of those horrid TT guys that things the phono stage is more important than the table :). The Tercell II is that good. The Dual 721/Shure into that is much better than the VPI/Zyx into the Accuphase E303's phono stage, though the VPI/Zyx is better when they're both on the Tercel, by a bit and not by as much as I'd like given the relative cost differences involved. So much of it is system/cart/arm/stage synergy.

Its been a fun day here...have about $3500 worth of toys on loan from the shop my friend owns, just so I can audition a line-stage pre on a level playing ground, haha.

John..I am SOOO happy you like the Dual...I told you it was pretty amazing...probably one of their finest models and the V15 is a perfect match (they used to ship with that)....You should really post pictures of how you mounted it in a console. I think its incredibly ingenious...

I have been working with Jeff of A/V Solution (awesome awesome guy) and he is going to let me try the Vista he had lying around. He too though seconds Mike's pick of the phenomena II http://www.musicalsurroundings.com/m..._PhonomII.html

And when these guys speak, I listen...LOL

Know what I like about this place ? $500 system or 50k system, they have no guile and no snobbery...just a love of all stuff audio...peaceful...LOL

Hey...HAVE FUN WITH THE TOYS...I love those days....Like Christmas in May for Big Guys...:exciting:
 
Yeah, its always Christmas here living upstairs from a hi-end store and being friends with the owner. Its like I have a closet full of gear I don't need to pay for...but the catch is, I like some of it and pay for it.

I've never heard a bad thing said about the Phenomena, in any varient. While I haven't heard it more than for a few minutes in an unfamiliar system, it was high up the list of candidates for my stage here based on word of mouth from those with ears that I respect. I still might go for one, as I'm trying to rid my system of tubes. I just don't have luck with them despite my liking parts of their sonic presentation.

I'm looking forward to your remarks about it (especially outside of the confines of that -other- forum).
 
AWESOME FIND JOHN AND GANG

I just tried something on a whim. The ART (like many PS's) uses a walwart AC to 12VDC. Well, I just happen to have an end and 12V rechargeable I was using on another experiment. Hooked it up and OMG...The detail and widened soundstage...incredible. I would describe the overall sound as robust, clear , very well balanced on all levels (lows, highs and mid) but what floored me was the soundstage coming at me from each side (as if I had speakers to the left and right of my ears)

Cool experiment...
 
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