Music Formats: What's hip and what's not?

Golucid

Golucid

Taking a break
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There's lots of discussion as to what audio mediums are here to stay and what is now perhaps past. We have a googol [not google] of formats, to name a few:

78, 45/7", 12", EP, LP, 8-Track, Cassette, CD, SACD, MP3, AAC, WAV, RA/RAM, RM, Midi, OGG, DSC, ALAC, FLAC, APE, AIFF, WMA, AIFF, ALAC, DAT, DSD/DFF/DSF, DXD

So, what's here to stay? Or perhaps, what is temporarily to fade and perhaps come back. We thought vinyl had died but apparently, it has made a come back, yes? Or, maybe it never did die.

The current argument is that CD is fading fast, or is it? Will it vanish or evolve into what has become that Vinyl Niche market and someday make a comeback as our vinyl friends have?
 
For me, it's DSD, R2R and Vinyl. High res PCM is hit or miss I'm finding. I'm also finding some of my latest CD's sounding absolutely superb.

With my T+A PDP 3000 HV soon shipping, I'm super excited to be spinning some of my latest CD and SACD's, not to mention its world class DAC.


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A this point, I'm a hard medium user (vinyl, CD's). I use some streaming for background music when I'm on the computer in the office, but not for enjoyment.
Some form of file medium is the wave of the future, although I've yet to be convinced as to what is best.
One small anecdote. I recently had the opportunity to work on a Sony HAP Z1ES. Pretty decent machine. There were a number of file formats on the hard drive including 24/192, redbook, and DSD. I thought I would give a listen to the various formats and compare them as best I could. DSD was consistently the worst. One song was so bad, I had to go put an LP on to clear my head.
This was strictly an unscientific experiment, with far too many variables, but I heard what I heard.
 
blackdog said:
A this point, I'm a hard medium user (vinyl, CD's). I use some streaming for background music when I'm on the computer in the office, but not for enjoyment.
Some form of file medium is the wave of the future, although I've yet to be convinced as to what is best.
One small anecdote. I recently had the opportunity to work on a Sony HAP Z1ES. Pretty decent machine. There were a number of file formats on the hard drive including 24/192, redbook, and DSD. I thought I would give a listen to the various formats and compare them as best I could. DSD was consistently the worst. One song was so bad, I had to go put an LP on to clear my head.
This was strictly an unscientific experiment, with far too many variables, but I heard what I heard.
Click to expand...

Something was seriously wrong with the DSD files you heard.
 
This question is really what physical formats will remain. I think at some point in the future CDs, DVDs, and Blue Rays will vanish. After all, they are simply a storage medium for a file type, and exist only to distribute those files. Those same files can also be downloaded, and stored on some other format, which then eliminates the need to physically distribute them.

In so far as vinyl, Myles has the answer for that. However, he has been quiet lately. Is he on a trip?
 
Cd,s are hip and with over 1000 redbook only cd,s it should last me long enough till i leave this earth :) AIFF files for my computer room very good for background music BUT for the serious music cd,s only thank you the faster cd,s vanish the faster whe will find heavy hitter cd players at reasonable prices on the used market.:)
 
blackdog said:
No doubt. However are all DSD files created equal. Could it have been the source of these files.
Click to expand...

See, and here I thought that 1bit > 1bit DSD files (bit perfect as its being sold) were all the same. Are there variables with true DSD files?
 
Mike, based on what I have read on multiple forums, and magazines, at the end of the day it is the mastering of the recording that is important, not whether it is on vinyl, CD, SACD, FLAC, or DSD files. A well recorded and mastered song will sound fantastic on any format.
 
I agree, no matter what format it is in crap mastering and engineering sounds like crap. Several overpriced re-issues have proven that.
 
DSD, PCM, WAV, and the lossless bitstream AV formats , LP 12" 33.3/45rpm, 1/4" R2R tape. These best of the best digital and analog formats will stay.

The lossy AV bitstream formats will also stay until realtime lossless decompression processing technology comes of age. Then we will probably see new digital audio formats to replace the above.

Lossless realtime compression technologies will become an environmental consideration in the future.

FLAC will remain as an archiving format IMO until it then dies a slow death.

I also agree with Bud, optical discs will cease to become a distribution medium this generation. But there will be new optical technology and it will change the way the world thinks about storage, transmission and replication everywhere.
 
mep said:
Something was seriously wrong with the DSD files you heard.
Click to expand...

It seems more likely that something was seriously wrong with the DSD converter you heard, if DSD was consistently the worst. That's the main problem comparing DSD and PCM. I don't believe DSD is inherently superior, and I can't see anyone making a convincing case that there is more information in a DSD format. However DAC converting is inherently simpler in DSD, and allows to do away with a lot of the complexity inherent to PCM converting.
 
Musically, I don't think CDs are over. The results I get with our best CD-players are a match for anything I've heard. But from a realistic market point of view, it is being obliterated in lower end and there is no manufacturer for high end parts anymore, so I don't see how audiophile CDs will survive, absent audiophile CD-players (we only have a few left to make...).

The question then becomes: do we have a new generation of audiophiles that does not carry the legacy of their 10,000 LPs and therefore don't have them as a prerequisite?

Setting up my new showroom (sorry, Music Room), I am actually satisfied to be able to build one that is NOT packed with physical supports (CDs and LPs) wall to wall and yet has tons of awesome music. I also think this is quite the argument for all audiophiles who have to make compromises at home; and for those of us who live in places where real estate is so ridiculously expensive than even owning a washing machine makes no economical sense.

Consequently, I also don't think PCM is doomed and that DSD is inherently superior. But as I just said, because good DSD converting is easier, there is an opening in high end there for that format. A lot of the DSD enthusiasm, that said, I attribute to poor PCM converting -- not unlike BluRay players give worse results on DVDs than DVD players, same with SACD and CD... But now that I heard the Lumïn I believe there is something "free-sounding" about DSD that is exciting and harder to achieve with PCM.

The idea that one format is inherently superior doesn't make sense, but it's all about what it takes to do it well. In that case I think the boom in vinyle is mostly about the medium range turntables: they are a very affordable way to achieve a lot of good music. The other day at a dealer, a little 1,000€ Rega turntable was in some ways as enjoyable than things out of the PS Audio Direct Stream, something that is like 8 times the price when you factor in the digital source.
 
BlueFox said:
Mike, based on what I have read on multiple forums, and magazines, at the end of the day it is the mastering of the recording that is important, not whether it is on vinyl, CD, SACD, FLAC, or DSD files. A well recorded and mastered song will sound fantastic on any format.
Click to expand...

Yeah, but that great mastering job will sound better played back through vinyl or DSD over any form of PCM.
 
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