CPP
Active member
This is going to be a awesome unit
MQA now on Tidal
- Thread starter Mike
- Start date
This is going to be a awesome unit
Unfortunately, I just tested that Tidal does not send 24-bit MQA streams to Esoteric N-05 network input. Even if you selected a 24-bit stream from Tidal favorite, Tidal chooses the 16-bit alternative for you.
Right now, your only option to test Tidal MQA is to use the USB input.
justubes
Member
- Joined
- Jul 19, 2014
- Messages
- 76
Hi Rhapsody,
Does the MSB renderer module feature MQA as setting up using Upnp will allow tidal streaming direct to the MSB Dac or is this a feature only available to the Quadrate usb module?
In which for Tidal streams, then Aurender as a tidal streamer would not be need?
Does the MSB renderer module feature MQA as setting up using Upnp will allow tidal streaming direct to the MSB Dac or is this a feature only available to the Quadrate usb module?
In which for Tidal streams, then Aurender as a tidal streamer would not be need?
Yep, you WILL be able to eventually use the MSB renderer module in any of the MSB DACS (Analog, V or SelectII), then you would not need an Aurender. You would control the Upnp set up with an Ipad and JRivers, or other controller app.
The MQA for the Renderer is not available quite yet. When MSB announces the overall Renderer MQA support it will be an elegant solution. There is not a hard timeline yet, but stay tuned. Expect something special when complete.
The Aurender set up is just so easy and right now being able to use the work around of saving the Masters' files on the Tidal Desktop app and then refreshing the Aurender app and having them show up and play in MQA and more importantly pass through the MQA'd file ready for the MSB MQA/USB module to HW decode and play the file is all rock solid and sounds great, so it's a good solution for the moment.
I now have the MQA/USB module installed in the MSB Select II Dac. My initial listening hours were a bit confusing. Prior -I was using the MSB Select Dac but doing the SW unfolding in the Tidal desktop app as the MSB was non MQA'd until today when I installed the latest MQA/USB module.
The 24/96 SW unfold into the Select II sounded great, I loved it.
When I put in the new MQA/USB module today, my regular Tidal HiFi sounded better than what I had been hearing with the SW 24/96 unfold. ??? The performance just jumped. The new MQA/USB gave a significant boost on regular streaming Tidal tracks which I did not expect.....especially music that hits the spot for me and happens to be nicely recorded as well. That was the first stun of the day.
Confusion came from the fact that I also did a FW update to the Select so that it could run the new MQA/USB module. A lot of times the FW upgrades from MSB make a very noticeable difference, so not sure if it was the MQA/USB module or the FW update or most likely a combination of both.
Up to this point today I was doing all listening to HiFi Tidal via the Aurender but with the new MSB MQA/USB input module. This provided a significant sonic overall difference prior to new usb/mqa module and Select FW update.
The hallowed experience-
Listening to MQA HW unfolded on the Select II is something that whatever I would say would not come close to how natural and how holographic it sounds, with escalated resolution as well. The resolution seems like X2 as the voices and instruments have so much density to each image. Textures and harmonics emerge like never before in my systems.
It does not just sound better than unfolding the SW in Tidal, with the Select Dac it is a totally different sonic experience. Say you had a $10K TT….. very nice set up. But you brought in a new $100K TT set up. If all set up properly it would be an different and elevated experience.
That is what going from the SW unfolding to the HW decoding in the Select is like for me. I don’t even have a handle on how good it sounds yet. All I know it’s like an entire new system, it made that kind of difference…..in all sonic attributes. I know it should for what the Select costs, BUT at least it does deliver and it's not always that way.
Of course it's TOTALLY recording dependent. I would personally take a track/album that I love that is recorded well and listen to it on non MQA Tidal/16/44.1 BECAUSE the new MQA/USB module brought regular USB/regular Tidal to such a strong sonic level that I don't even need the SW unfolded MQA or the HW encoded MQA. It has a LOT to do with the Select DAC, really anything that I play through it sounds very good. Good enough to get totally absorbed into the music.
To describe the full effect of the HW decode on the Select II is hard to describe. This is just personal but I can find vinyl that sounds better than tape and visa versa depending on recording. I never would have compared my digital to tape or vinyl. Now, if you play a really well recorded album say Duke's Afro-Bossa with the HW MQA decoding.....for me it will stand up sonically against a very good vinyl or R2R selection.
I should throw in native DSD as well to the vinyl and tape comparisons. Now, it's vinyl, tape, native DSD or high res pcs and the HW MQA.....each one with a great recording could be preferred to the others.
I am not saying it's better or really any comparison, just that it is in the same sonic league.
Take into account that the Select II MQA'd DAC has a lot to do with what I am saying.
Crazy ramblingsJ Back to probably six more hours of HW encoded MQA listening, that’s after already listening for 10 hours off and on today……it’s like Xmas when you were a kid and got a new toy that you really wanted and when you got it you couldn’t get enough of it.
The 24/96 SW unfold into the Select II sounded great, I loved it.
When I put in the new MQA/USB module today, my regular Tidal HiFi sounded better than what I had been hearing with the SW 24/96 unfold. ??? The performance just jumped. The new MQA/USB gave a significant boost on regular streaming Tidal tracks which I did not expect.....especially music that hits the spot for me and happens to be nicely recorded as well. That was the first stun of the day.
Confusion came from the fact that I also did a FW update to the Select so that it could run the new MQA/USB module. A lot of times the FW upgrades from MSB make a very noticeable difference, so not sure if it was the MQA/USB module or the FW update or most likely a combination of both.
Up to this point today I was doing all listening to HiFi Tidal via the Aurender but with the new MSB MQA/USB input module. This provided a significant sonic overall difference prior to new usb/mqa module and Select FW update.
The hallowed experience-
Listening to MQA HW unfolded on the Select II is something that whatever I would say would not come close to how natural and how holographic it sounds, with escalated resolution as well. The resolution seems like X2 as the voices and instruments have so much density to each image. Textures and harmonics emerge like never before in my systems.
It does not just sound better than unfolding the SW in Tidal, with the Select Dac it is a totally different sonic experience. Say you had a $10K TT….. very nice set up. But you brought in a new $100K TT set up. If all set up properly it would be an different and elevated experience.
That is what going from the SW unfolding to the HW decoding in the Select is like for me. I don’t even have a handle on how good it sounds yet. All I know it’s like an entire new system, it made that kind of difference…..in all sonic attributes. I know it should for what the Select costs, BUT at least it does deliver and it's not always that way.
Of course it's TOTALLY recording dependent. I would personally take a track/album that I love that is recorded well and listen to it on non MQA Tidal/16/44.1 BECAUSE the new MQA/USB module brought regular USB/regular Tidal to such a strong sonic level that I don't even need the SW unfolded MQA or the HW encoded MQA. It has a LOT to do with the Select DAC, really anything that I play through it sounds very good. Good enough to get totally absorbed into the music.
To describe the full effect of the HW decode on the Select II is hard to describe. This is just personal but I can find vinyl that sounds better than tape and visa versa depending on recording. I never would have compared my digital to tape or vinyl. Now, if you play a really well recorded album say Duke's Afro-Bossa with the HW MQA decoding.....for me it will stand up sonically against a very good vinyl or R2R selection.
I should throw in native DSD as well to the vinyl and tape comparisons. Now, it's vinyl, tape, native DSD or high res pcs and the HW MQA.....each one with a great recording could be preferred to the others.
I am not saying it's better or really any comparison, just that it is in the same sonic league.
Take into account that the Select II MQA'd DAC has a lot to do with what I am saying.
Crazy ramblingsJ Back to probably six more hours of HW encoded MQA listening, that’s after already listening for 10 hours off and on today……it’s like Xmas when you were a kid and got a new toy that you really wanted and when you got it you couldn’t get enough of it.
still-one
Active member
I am glad that you now have the opportunity to hear what hardware decoded MQA can sound like. I have heard the Select II twice, once at a local dealer with a prototype unit. That produced the best standard PCM I had heard to date and gave up nothing to DSD. The second time was the Select MQA unit at RMAF. Not the best room or ancillary gear but the MQA files were amazing. I will say that my 808v6 gives up little to any digital device I have tried in my system or heard elsewhere. That said it is not in the Select II's league. I wish cost was no consideration.
I will continue to play MQA versions when possible but I would still rather play the music I enjoy and really do not worry about whether it is streamed from Tidal , off my server or the rare CD I play. I think with the Select II you are at that point too.
PS: Rhapsody, I apologize but I do not know your name.
I will continue to play MQA versions when possible but I would still rather play the music I enjoy and really do not worry about whether it is streamed from Tidal , off my server or the rare CD I play. I think with the Select II you are at that point too.
PS: Rhapsody, I apologize but I do not know your name.
Hi Jim, it's Bob
You summed it up perfectly. I am at that point. I listen to the music I want to listen to and it all sounds good through the Select.
radioactive
New member
if the Tidal App's "unfolded" sound of Phil Collins' "In The Air Tonight" get's better, then wow....I compared it to all my hi-rez copies including the HDTracks release in 24/96 of the same remaster and the drum entry just sounds so much better on Tidal's version. It's day and night. Just like other's, I've found some tracks are incredible compared to standard hi-rez versions, and some are utter dud's. But "Face Value" is done right by Tidal.
RDSChicago
Member
Thanks for the info about Phil. An old favorite of mine. I assume your DAC is not MQA?
radioactive
New member
[sorry, long answer] No, it's not. I'm using the Tidal desktop program -- Windows on my CAPS PIPELINE through USB to my dCS Debussy (I have a WW Platinum USB 1M cable for that connection and it's worth the $550+ it lists for). Listening to the whole album, you can't help but wonder if they spent additional time on the sound of his drums. This is about as close to vinyl that I've heard on my system. Smooth, dynamic, and easy on the ears. The HDTracks exact album ("Face Value Remastered, 2015" in 24/96) is not anywhere as good. Tida's Master version, which unfolds to 24/96 is crazy good, by an order of magnitude good, it's that good.
For anyone following dCS's support for MQA: I just got word that only the Vivaldi (through the upsampler) and Rossini will support MQA and that date is "sometime in 2017" -- quite ambiguous. An update for the Debussy is "still pending" slated to be released "before summer". It's not clear what they're updating (most updates they push out support another format or sampling rate, etc. -- the Debussy supports just about everything now), but it was said that MQA would not be part of the Debussy update.
My take on MQA: MQA has not made it yet. There needs to be more market penetration with material and more hardware support. I've been told that hardware support is a significant effort for manufacturers. To date, a couple of those I've spoken with have not seen enough (sounds arbitrary to me, but it's not like they have to explain the logic behind their business decisions to everyone) to support the effort/investment of MQA adoption. Not to mention those who claim they will never support it. This large release of MQA mainstream albums is great for audiophiles and early adopters -- hopefully it will be the spark that gets the fire started. And hopefully MQA will stand out as a consistent improvement; there are still odd cases where some albums are said to sound better than the MQA Master version. Could this be a DAC issue? Does MQA have better results with some tracks due to the "template" they use for the ADC (assuming it's not a core MQA issue)? Perhaps it's even as simple as improper documentation by the Label (like Warner saying they used ADC #1 when they really used ADC #7)? So many potential causes. Then there's the issue of audiophiles having to repurchase albums for possibly the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. time. I'm one of those who like to have a copy on my own drives (I own over 300 SACD's about a hundred DVD-AUDIO's, and thousands of CD's, then I got into downloads, but I still by silver discs) -- I'm not always connected to the Internet and like to make playlists for things like my ipod mini (just example cases) It's a no-brainer for streaming though. No matter the early adoption bugs and other issues, what I assume is the Application's 2nd unfold, can sound incredible even on a non-MQA DAC. I could be convinced to purchase any music going forward to being the MQA version as I've heard what it's possibilities are -- as long as Roon will support MQA playback of stand alone files on a disc or SAN in my case.
For anyone following dCS's support for MQA: I just got word that only the Vivaldi (through the upsampler) and Rossini will support MQA and that date is "sometime in 2017" -- quite ambiguous. An update for the Debussy is "still pending" slated to be released "before summer". It's not clear what they're updating (most updates they push out support another format or sampling rate, etc. -- the Debussy supports just about everything now), but it was said that MQA would not be part of the Debussy update.
My take on MQA: MQA has not made it yet. There needs to be more market penetration with material and more hardware support. I've been told that hardware support is a significant effort for manufacturers. To date, a couple of those I've spoken with have not seen enough (sounds arbitrary to me, but it's not like they have to explain the logic behind their business decisions to everyone) to support the effort/investment of MQA adoption. Not to mention those who claim they will never support it. This large release of MQA mainstream albums is great for audiophiles and early adopters -- hopefully it will be the spark that gets the fire started. And hopefully MQA will stand out as a consistent improvement; there are still odd cases where some albums are said to sound better than the MQA Master version. Could this be a DAC issue? Does MQA have better results with some tracks due to the "template" they use for the ADC (assuming it's not a core MQA issue)? Perhaps it's even as simple as improper documentation by the Label (like Warner saying they used ADC #1 when they really used ADC #7)? So many potential causes. Then there's the issue of audiophiles having to repurchase albums for possibly the 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc. time. I'm one of those who like to have a copy on my own drives (I own over 300 SACD's about a hundred DVD-AUDIO's, and thousands of CD's, then I got into downloads, but I still by silver discs) -- I'm not always connected to the Internet and like to make playlists for things like my ipod mini (just example cases) It's a no-brainer for streaming though. No matter the early adoption bugs and other issues, what I assume is the Application's 2nd unfold, can sound incredible even on a non-MQA DAC. I could be convinced to purchase any music going forward to being the MQA version as I've heard what it's possibilities are -- as long as Roon will support MQA playback of stand alone files on a disc or SAN in my case.
CPP
Active member
Interesting
so adding a $18k and a 20K is going to help the MQA cause, what for a few people. I just don't get it.
What's needed is a total software solution and a whole lot music from more than one label.
Whatever Tidal is doing now, it is doing something very right. The SQ from Tidal seems to have improved dramatically recently and this is not necessarily MQA-related. I have listened to both MQA and non-MQA material and the SQ is equally impressive and in some albums, the non-MQA ones do sound superior to MQA. All this from my non-MQA dac via ethernet over powerline.
It appears that Meridian have spruced up the whole Tidal streaming process. This is a boon for audiophiles and Tidal looks like it is here to stay with or without MQA and of course, MQA is here to stay with or without Tidal.
I very much look forward to SW encoding of MQA via a firmware update for my dac.
JMHO.
It appears that Meridian have spruced up the whole Tidal streaming process. This is a boon for audiophiles and Tidal looks like it is here to stay with or without MQA and of course, MQA is here to stay with or without Tidal.
I very much look forward to SW encoding of MQA via a firmware update for my dac.
JMHO.
radioactive
New member
Couldn't agree more. It's more like $61K and $24K -- the Vivaldi upsampler is around $18K and the Vivaldi DAC is $43K I believe. The Rossini is around $24K and that's without the clock and also the DAC-only version, not the disc player + DAC + clock version. The Rossini DAC + clock is about $31K. You'd probably get a better deal getting Jim's Meridian 808v6 at under $23K 
Getting a $4-8K MQA-enabled DAC is going to be slim pickings. If you go cheaper, those doing reviews are not happy with the results. The Explorer DAC is under $500 but all reports say it sounds not-so-good. The MyTek DAC's are in the entry-level to medium-to-high range, but I've not heard a thing about them. A SW Player would at least be dependent on the quality of the DAC to some degree and we'd all be where we are now. The question is "when" are they going to release one?
Getting a $4-8K MQA-enabled DAC is going to be slim pickings. If you go cheaper, those doing reviews are not happy with the results. The Explorer DAC is under $500 but all reports say it sounds not-so-good. The MyTek DAC's are in the entry-level to medium-to-high range, but I've not heard a thing about them. A SW Player would at least be dependent on the quality of the DAC to some degree and we'd all be where we are now. The question is "when" are they going to release one?
.....Gulp!
.....Double Gulp!!
http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/mytek-brooklyn-mqa-compatible-dac/
http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2016/07/the-host-with-the-most-mytek-digitals-brooklyn/
http://positive-feedback.com/reviews/hardware-reviews/the-mytek-brooklyn-dsd-dac/
http://www.stereophile.com/content/...essorheadphone-amplifier#QHsWFqCUzBTuKLLE.97
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/732-mytek-brooklyn-dac-preamp-review/
http://www.audiostream.com/content/mytek-brooklyn-dac-0#pTL2g6dR4QZMbZck.97
Any so-called high-rez format has not made it yet. And this will always be the case. Remember the great hopes for SACD? It never made it "yet" either. I always knew it would be a failure and fortunately have never bothered with it -- one of my best decisions in audio. In the meantime CD quietly has become ever better. On the best DACs it is now so good that it produces a sound quality that until a few years ago was considered to be principally obtainable only with 'hi-rez'. That CD story is the only one that counts, because that's where all the music is. Everything else is just a confusion and distraction.
RDSChicago
Member
To say you have to spend north of $20,000 to get a great-sounding DAC strikes me as jaded to put it mildly.
radioactive
New member
That's not quite what I said, but I can see where you can get that impression when I agreed with Chris' comment about adding $20 will solve people's MQA woes. I spoke specifically about dCS and later attempted to add in other manufacturers that are less expensive but which have had mixed reviews. What I said was, If you want a dCS that does MQA, then the entry cost of MQA support is anywhere from $24K (Rossini w/out the clock, which most people will get the clock for $7-8K) to $68K (Vivaldi DAC with the Upsampler which you need because all the necessary functions to modify are in the Vivaldi upsampler, not the Vivaldi DAC).
As proof I believe you can get a great DAC under $20K, I have a dCS Debussy and at $12,000 it's perfect for me. I know it gets better and the tech needs an update -- which is supposedly coming in some fashion but it's not going to support MQA if you believe dCS.
I wish there were more DACs available which support MQA, so market competition would drive prices where they should be. Right now, since there are around 10 available, prices are inflated and even low-end DAC's start at $2,000.
There are plenty of incredible sounding DAC's available for $5-12K. Keep in mind where I'm coming from and what my system is (see my signature bar). Whatever DAC I end up replacing my Debussy with will need to have better resolving power than my Debussy and be a good fit with my system. Hopefully it's going to start at around $7.5K and go up from there when I make that decision in about a year from now.
So if you want to quote me as saying "you need to spend at least $x to get an incredible sounding DAC", I believe that number for non-MQA DACs is about $7.5K. And there are always outliers. For MQA DAC's, I don't think there's enough supply or market stability to even go there with such a statement at this time. Now that MQA music is available (somewhat) DAC's are going to have an increase in sales, and prices may even go up if supply goes down.
@AI M.: As as for insufficient supply of listening material and "making it", I agree partially about SACD, but they still occasionally release a new album in SACD. It's a wasn't a bad idea, but its final spot in the marketplace was unclear until a couple years later. If you don't remember, SACD and DVD-AUDIO were marketed as multichannel hi-resolution music. The majority of SACD's released in the early days were multichannel. It wasn't until a few years later that people realized it could be a great media for 2-channel hi-resolution and so SACD won and DVD-AUDIO quickly fell off the radar.
As for "24Bit downloads", in FLAC or WAV -- there are a large amount of albums available. The target sales audience is audiophiles. Lots of new albums are coming out in 24Bit weekly and the sales companies are profiting enough to keep their doors open. I'd say it's made it. What's your metric for whether or not a format has "made it"? I hope we can at least all agree that DVD-AUDIO has gone the way of the dinosaur.
Bryan
As proof I believe you can get a great DAC under $20K, I have a dCS Debussy and at $12,000 it's perfect for me. I know it gets better and the tech needs an update -- which is supposedly coming in some fashion but it's not going to support MQA if you believe dCS.
I wish there were more DACs available which support MQA, so market competition would drive prices where they should be. Right now, since there are around 10 available, prices are inflated and even low-end DAC's start at $2,000.
There are plenty of incredible sounding DAC's available for $5-12K. Keep in mind where I'm coming from and what my system is (see my signature bar). Whatever DAC I end up replacing my Debussy with will need to have better resolving power than my Debussy and be a good fit with my system. Hopefully it's going to start at around $7.5K and go up from there when I make that decision in about a year from now.
So if you want to quote me as saying "you need to spend at least $x to get an incredible sounding DAC", I believe that number for non-MQA DACs is about $7.5K. And there are always outliers. For MQA DAC's, I don't think there's enough supply or market stability to even go there with such a statement at this time. Now that MQA music is available (somewhat) DAC's are going to have an increase in sales, and prices may even go up if supply goes down.
@AI M.: As as for insufficient supply of listening material and "making it", I agree partially about SACD, but they still occasionally release a new album in SACD. It's a wasn't a bad idea, but its final spot in the marketplace was unclear until a couple years later. If you don't remember, SACD and DVD-AUDIO were marketed as multichannel hi-resolution music. The majority of SACD's released in the early days were multichannel. It wasn't until a few years later that people realized it could be a great media for 2-channel hi-resolution and so SACD won and DVD-AUDIO quickly fell off the radar.
As for "24Bit downloads", in FLAC or WAV -- there are a large amount of albums available. The target sales audience is audiophiles. Lots of new albums are coming out in 24Bit weekly and the sales companies are profiting enough to keep their doors open. I'd say it's made it. What's your metric for whether or not a format has "made it"? I hope we can at least all agree that DVD-AUDIO has gone the way of the dinosaur.
Bryan
radioactive
New member
Thanks Jon,
Lots of good reviews about the Mytek Brooklyn. And at $2,000 it's not a crazy-expensive entry price
Does Esoteric plan on entering the MQA battle?
Lots of good reviews about the Mytek Brooklyn. And at $2,000 it's not a crazy-expensive entry price
Does Esoteric plan on entering the MQA battle?
Bryan, no news yet about HW. I am just hoping for a SW upgrade.