MQA Discussion

[still-one]

Bob, If you have Roon, you don't need to change anything in the Tidal app -- it has nothing to do with any of this unless you're using the Tidal program on your PC to play back music on your Rossini over USB.

You really should connect your Rossini to your network. Once you do that, you'll just need to add it as a playback source in your Roon DB and there are NO settings for MQA,etc for the Rossini in Roon this way.

When you have a DAC like the Rossini or one of the meridian you let those DACs do all of the unfolding and rendering. That is why you pass are supposed to check the pass through option. If you have a DAC like the Berkeley then you must let the Tidal do the first unfolding.

 

[Kuoppis]

And even easier with the DS with the Bridge II as it's all in one box. Congrats on the Brinkmann looks like a great piece. Has it become a permanent piece of the chain? If so that's a pretty complete set-up you have put together lately.

The Brinkmann does that also. It’s a streamer and a Roon endpoint as well, so it’s pretty versatile. No network installation bridge needed. But I just happen to have an Aurender in my system, so I plugged it in.

Regarding my system, thank you. The Magico upgrade came first but then I wanted to up it a notch as a whole and got the Pass. The Meitner was good but I wanted something better, so I guess the Brinkmann fits the bill.

The Nyquist is the best DAC I have ever heard in my system and it suits my tastes. In addition, it is such a marvelous piece of engineering that I could even buy it just to look at it. So, initially I only wanted to audition it in my system, but now I feel I cannot give it back. Santa might have come early this year [emoji3].


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[Kuoppis]

When you have a DAC like the Rossini or one of the meridian you let those DACs do all of the unfolding and rendering. That is why you pass are supposed to check the pass through option. If you have a DAC like the Berkeley then you must let the Tidal do the first unfolding.

Jim, wouldn’t it be correct to say that a MQA renderer (e.g. Berkeley Ref 2) needs to be fed with unfolded data, while with a MQA decoder (e.g. Rossini, Nyquist) you do have the choice because it can do both?


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[still-one]

Jim, wouldn’t it be correct to say that a MQA renderer (e.g. Berkeley Ref 2) needs to be fed with unfolded data, while with a MQA decoder (e.g. Rossini, Nyquist) you do have the choice because it can do both?


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You are absolutely correct. You do have those choices with dcs, Brinkmann and Meridian etc. From what I have read from each of those manufacturers they suggest you let them do it all.

 

[Bobvin]

I’ll repeat a question—if you play a Tidal master but you don’t have an MQA capable system, what is played? Is there a PCM layer, sort of like a hybrid SACD/CD? Tidal can’t know what exists at the end point, but still delivers something if you’ve chosen a “master” file, yes?

 

[still-one]

I’ll repeat a question—if you play a Tidal master but you don’t have an MQA capable system, what is played? Is there a PCM layer, sort of like a hybrid SACD/CD? Tidal can’t know what exists at the end point, but still delivers something if you’ve chosen a “master” file, yes?

There has been so much written about this I can't positively be sure I am 100% correct. Here is the best answer I can find as pointed out in the Lumin MQA thread.

No Decoder
Similar to a dual layer SACD that plays the CD layer in a standard CD player and the Super Audio layer in an SACD player, MQA music is playable through almost any playback system, but the highest quality is only possible with the appropriate solution.

Playing MQA on a system without a decoder, will enable the consumer to hear the 24 bit / 44.1 kHz (or 24 bit / 48 kHz) version of the music in the example above. According to MQA Ltd, playing the un-decoded version still enables the consumer to benefit from the deblurring processes used in the creation or folding of the track.

Examples of systems without decoders are plentiful in this early phase of record labels rolling out MQA music. JRiver Media Center, Amarra, HQPlayer and many others are applications that don't decode MQA. In addition, most hardware on Earth doesn't decode MQA at this time.

One scenario that may confuse consumers, is when an MQA renderer is present without a software or hardware decoder. This will result in an un-decoded signal exactly as it would without the MQA renderer. The 44.1 or 48 kHz version of the file will play, undecoded. One example of this is the upcoming AudioQuest DragonFly (updated Red and Black versions). Without a decoder in the playback chain, an MQA renderer has no effect on the audio.

Consumers purchasing or streaming MQA music will see either 24 bit / 44.1 kHz or 24 bit / 48 kHz files without playing the audio (16 bit MQA files are outside the scope of this discussion). These are what's called the distribution files. They have been through the MQA process that deblurs and folds them into a smaller package, readying them for transport and playback on almost any device.

The MQA distribution file, the file that's actually purchased or streamed, is like a chameleon. In its packaged state the files are 44.1 or 48 kHz, but decoded and rendered the files can expand into the highest supported sample rate of the digital to analog converter inside the DAC..

 

[wklie]

I’ll repeat a question—if you play a Tidal master but you don’t have an MQA capable system, what is played? Is there a PCM layer, sort of like a hybrid SACD/CD? Tidal can’t know what exists at the end point, but still delivers something if you’ve chosen a “master” file, yes?

At this moment, since Roon does not support MQA Core decoding, if you don't have other MQA hardware, then via Roon you're hearing 24-bit 44.1kHz or 48kHz music of the Tidal Master. If you use Roon with Lumin, then you get the MQA Full decoding done by the Lumin hardware. (People expect that Roon should provide MQA Core decoding in the future.)

If you use Tidal desktop app with Exclusive Mode ON, Passthrough mode OFF, or Audirvana or Amaraa, then you get a MQA Core decoded (first unfold) 24-bit 88.2kHz or 96kHz music. These software are capable of MQA Core decoding.

More details:
https://www.computeraudiophile.com/ca/ca-academy/mqa-for-civilians/

 

[Phishphan]

MQA just seems like a PITA. For most of us it means new gear. And for the cost of that gear, I can purchase a hell of a lot of high res FLAC from the usual places and store it locally.


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[Mike]

When the MQA update comes out for the Grandioso K1, you will be able to try it out.

 

[Phishphan]

When the MQA update comes out for the Grandioso K1, you will be able to try it out.

I asked Esoteric and they said there wasn’t a update coming. Do you know something I don’t?

If it’s something I’d need to pay for, I’m honestly not interested. I have 12TB of storage on my NAS and another 8TB on my Aurender. I’d rather see more mainstream artists DSD hit the market than MQA.


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[Mike]

I asked Esoteric and they said there wasn’t a update coming. Do you know something I don’t?

If it’s something I’d need to pay for, I’m honestly not interested. I have 12TB of storage on my NAS and another 8TB on my Aurender. I’d rather see more mainstream artists DSD hit the market than MQA.


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Last week they told me there WOULD be an upgrade coming to the Grandioso K1 for MQA.

 

[Phishphan]

Last week they told me there WOULD be an upgrade coming to the Grandioso K1 for MQA.

Interesting. If it’s firmware I can easily install, at no cost, I’m game.

Sending in gear for upgrades never seems to happen. I’ve been planning to send in my SP3 for the 4K upgrade for months.


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[wklie]

Last week they told me there WOULD be an upgrade coming to the Grandioso K1 for MQA.

N-01 is getting MQA for sure. For K1, since it does not have the N-01 network board where MQA decoding is done, at this point I cannot see how K1 can decode MQA.

 

[CPP]

N-01 is getting MQA for sure. For K1, since it does not have the N-01 network board where MQA decoding is done, at this point I cannot see how K1 can decode MQA.

I just read this,Dec 1st, 2017; noting that the K1 would require a redesign " Esoteric states that including MQA in its disc players would require a complete redesign of their DAC sections, and that they’re considering its feasibility. They do plan to add MQA to their N-05 network audio player."
https://www.soundstageultra.com/ind.../778-esoteric-grandioso-k1-sacd-cd-player-dac

 

[Kuoppis]

Some more MQA comparisons:

Interesting test today, Oscar Peterson/ Tenderly “The Music Box Suite” (with Ray Brown and Herb Ellis) MQA and non-MQA: as the MQA version was also 44.1K, there is not a significant sound difference between the MQA/ non-MQA versions. But listening to MQA felt more relaxing, so it might be that I am just particularly sensitive to the pre-ringing (which might also be the reason why I prefer vinyl to digital in general).

As this coincides with other MQA listening test results, my earlier tongue-in-cheek statement that my best MQA option might be a new phono cart, could actually prove to be correct for 44.1k MQA content. I ordered the vinyl as well and will see whether that statement holds true.

This is not quite as bad though, as some MQA-opponent on a Linn forum put it, that MQA is just a tedious way to control a LED. (That statement needs however to be understood in the context, that those guys have paid 18K for a top class streamer and yet cannot benefit from the latest industry trends.)


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[radioactive]

If you're referring to the Rossini being "difficult to get MQA going...", I couldn't disagree with you more. It's actually extremely simple with the Rossini. I believe too many people were giving advice who had no actual experience setting up a Rossini for MQA. To be frank, the instructions and the update came out a day before questions were asked and people without Rossini's were offing advice.

John Quick, the N.America General Manager for dCS sent out instructions that were very easy to follow. When I followed his instructions it worked right off the bat for me. In dCS' defense, they did a knock-out job and should be commended on how smooth the update and compatibility process worked.

I'm highly impressed with the Rossini and dCS. This is my 2nd dCS DAC and I've owned and I've auditioned a lot. Hearing MQA back over a Rossini is incredible as well. Sure, just like in previous case of using the Tidal program with a USB connection to "partially unfold" MQA, the results for some MQA tracks were mixed and not that good. But I would say there are a large number of tracks that have a sonic presentation that I have yet to hear, which I found musical and very good. I'll still reference Phil Collins' "In The Air Tonight" as a track in MQA that is incredibly better than the hi-resolution 24/96 remaster from HDTracks. The drums are so much more lifelike and have an air about them that I found incredible with partial unfolding over my old Debussy. With the Rossini and full MQA, it's significantly better.

I think the problem now is in Roon's area in identifying "Masters" from regular files on Tidal. And that's got nothing to do with functionality of the Rossini.

It is a bit unfortunate it appears so difficult to get MQA going: with the Brinkmann Nyquist it is luckily plug&play. Just hook up the DAC to the Aurender via USB and off you go.

Maybe the best Ben Webster I have so far ever heard.


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[Mike]

http://www.bestofhighend.com/mqa-explained-8/

 

[DavidNC]

I'm new to this site and I've just found this thread.
I've not read the entire 122 pages but have searched 'Meridian' and this thread appears. So, 'Meridian' , 818 v3 or Ultra must have been mentioned somewhere.However, I did see a list of MQA DACs somewhere in the thread and these products weren't even on it !!
Time and time the Meridian isn't even mentioned when discussions on matters relating to 'DAC' 'MQA' etc etc. I just don't get it !!
These products,coming from the Masters of many things Digital surely need to be auditioned if only to discount?
I was one of the first members of the public to audition MQA, this was a few years ago. I consider myself a bit of a Dinosaur but I've had a Ethernet based systems in my house,for years with a MQAed enabled 818 ! As Michael Fremer states in his review of the Brinkmann Nyquist, the MQA effect is profound! I agree. What I would criticise is the length of time it's taken to get it rolled out(practically speaking!) .Much talk recently about the Brinkmann Nyquist and it's upgradability ! Yes, the 818 and Ultra(and all Meridian products) are all upgradable!Some now in their v6 or v8 guises !
As an aside,another great product, the Merging NADAC is, I'm told, getting MQA soon !(and that from a Company that's perfected DSD playback)
Interestingly,another premium (two box)Streamer from Quiescent (new Brand) isn't going to entertain it.The reason can be view on their web site.
Interestingly,Graham(Tron Audio-a trad. Company in the UK) doesn't even think there's a future for 'HiRez' !! So that's a different take !!

 

[still-one]

I'm new to this site and I've just found this thread.
I've not read the entire 122 pages but have searched 'Meridian' and this thread appears. So, 'Meridian' , 818 v3 or Ultra must have been mentioned somewhere.However, I did see a list of MQA DACs somewhere in the thread and these products weren't even on it !!
Time and time the Meridian isn't even mentioned when discussions on matters relating to 'DAC' 'MQA' etc etc. I just don't get it !!
These products,coming from the Masters of many things Digital surely need to be auditioned if only to discount?
I was one of the first members of the public to audition MQA, this was a few years ago. I consider myself a bit of a Dinosaur but I've had a Ethernet based systems in my house,for years with a MQAed enabled 818 ! As Michael Fremer states in his review of the Brinkmann Nyquist, the MQA effect is profound! I agree. What I would criticise is the length of time it's taken to get it rolled out(practically speaking!) .Much talk recently about the Brinkmann Nyquist and it's upgradability ! Yes, the 818 and Ultra(and all Meridian products) are all upgradable!Some now in their v6 or v8 guises !
As an aside,another great product, the Merging NADAC is, I'm told, getting MQA soon !(and that from a Company that's perfected DSD playback)
Interestingly,another premium (two box)Streamer from Quiescent (new Brand) isn't going to entertain it.The reason can be view on their web site.
Interestingly,Graham(Tron Audio-a trad. Company in the UK) doesn't even think there's a future for 'HiRez' !! So that's a different take !!

David
Welcome. There are several threads here that have touched on Meridian's MQA capabilities. Until recently I owned a 808v6 and played MQA with wonderful results. I A/B's many DAC's in my system until I found one that bettered the 808. Too many people may have auditioned the 808v6 without having it set-up using ethernet where it excels. I have since moved on to the dCS Rossini.

 

[radioactive]

Jim,

I recalled you saying the Rossini was inferior to your DAC (which at the time was the Meridian 808v6) so I went back and searched the threads and you posted the following on 12/19/2016:

Well the Rossini was not superior to my DAC in "my" system playing the same PCM file whether it was MQA or non MQA. I can't believe you think that a company like MSB would cripple their DAC(s) just to add MQA capability and sound worse on all other formats. I don't ask my dealer(s) to loan me products I will not be purchasing so I will not be borrowing a Vivaldi stack to use in the comparison.

I distinctly recall this because I even auditioned the 808v6 because that's what you had at the time, however I did not come to the conclusion you did back then and ultimately went the Rossini route. Mind sharing what's changed?

Bryan

David
Welcome. There are several threads here that have touched on Meridian's MQA capabilities. Until recently I owned a 808v6 and played MQA with wonderful results. I A/B's many DAC's in my system until I found one that bettered the 808. Too many people may have auditioned the 808v6 without having it set-up using ethernet where it excels. I have since moved on to the dCS Rossini.