MQA Discussion

[radioactive]

[Not trying to start a flame here just want to have a discussion]

I don't argue with the statement that CD sales are dropping and that digital downloads are on the rise. All you have to do is notice that all the music stores are gone.

But I am a bit skeptical of the numbers on streaming. No one I know is using these services from home. What they're doing is streaming them from their work computers because the local radio stations suck and they can't get any sort of variety any other way. And most of them just use the trial or free versions. No one cares about the quality, and no one cares if it's MQA or anything else just as long as they can listen. And that's where I see this as a failure. For starters the customer data is bad, network bandwidth is on a rapid rise, current streaming codecs are already sufficiently low rate utilization, and more importantly their costs are fixed (no licensing fees on the rise and the technology is getting cheaper). MQA is 10 years too late to the game if it's intent is to revolutionize the streaming industry.

Some of you may be thinking, "hey, I pay for my streaming service of lossless audio from XXYZ service, what's he talking about?". But know that everyone on this forum is the minority when it comes to music consumption. We care about quality, the masses don't as is evidenced by MP3, bad streaming services and crappy satellite radio.

The masses are moving away from physical media at an alarming rate. Streamed music from either free or paid subscriptions appears to be "mainstreams" medium of choice.

 

[still-one]

I guess you don't pay much attention to this and other forums. Several of us stream some of our music through our main systems. In fact my two channel room and and occasionally via our whole home system are the only place I ever use Tidal. Additionally there are many on these sites who stream Spotify, Rhapsody, or Pandora via SonoS connected to their main systems. Audiophiles in general don't use these as their main source, but streaming is not just for the MP3 crowd as you suggest.

The difference between playing the same tracks off a server in your home or streamed via Tidal is very small and even if you could identify which is better in a A/B test, it is unlikely you could tell which was which if you were asked just walking into a room.

You keep railing against MQA when none of us are trying to get you to use it. For many of us it is just an another HQ alternative to Hi-Rez or DSD files.

 

[radioactive]

When I said no one I know, I meant no one I know personally. I don't know you from Adam. I also stand by my statement which is that no one on this site amounts to a hill of beans in terms of the population of those using streaming services. We are a minority if even that.

And if MQA is what you're looking for (an alternative to hi Rez or DSD) then Meridian would consider that a failure. They are targeting the masses not the niche audiophiles.

I guess you don't pay much attention to this and other forums. Several of us stream some of our music through our main systems. In fact my two channel room and and occasionally via our whole home system are the only place I ever use Tidal. Additionally there are many on these sites who stream Spotify, Rhapsody, or Pandora via SonoS connected to their main systems. Audiophiles in general don't use these as their main source, but streaming is not just for the MP3 crowd as you suggest.

The difference between playing the same tracks off a server in your home or streamed via Tidal is very small and even if you could identify which is better in a A/B test, it is unlikely you could tell which was which if you were asked just walking into a room.

You keep railing against MQA when none of us are trying to get you to use it. For many of us it is just an another HQ alternative to Hi-Rez or DSD files.

 

[j2020]

Downloaded MQA files from the 2L website and the verdict is in.
All the MQA files are breathtakingly superior to the non-MQA versions.
One MQA 96/24 file sounds better than the 192/24 non-MQA version.
But even without considering hi-res with or without MQA, the 808v6 is brilliant on its own with redbook.

Radioactive,
All said and done about MQA in my very recent post.
J.

 

[j2020]

Jon, your post is more like an ad for the 808 than anything related to the topic of this thread. If you want to send a not to Mike you should just PM him rather than post off topic and advertise for Meridian.

Did you have anything to say that relates to MQA?

I don't know why you are going all nuclear. .. you gotta chill, man. This is just a hobby.
BTW, I don't get paid ad dollars by Meridian. I am merely sharing my humble experience and opinion.

 

[Randy Myers]

Which is absolutely fantastic for you, however 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of music listeners can not, or if they could, will not pay over $20k for a disk player....

If they could offer this type of player in the $1000 range they might have a decent chance of getting a good part of the people who care about quality music... ala many of those who contribute to forums such as this one. The general public will not go for this system where they require an expensive DAC to play it back at quality when they can play their mp3 files almost anywhere. I work with these people, we all do. The one guy who listen to music all day long with a better than average player (in other words not a phone but a separate flac player) thinks that I am nuts paying $2k for a new pre-amp, for example.

If they think this is going to fly then they are seriously misjudging the market. For every person such as yourself who can afford a $20k spinner there are thousands upon thousand who care about good music who can not.

And their only other solution that they have mentioned is a cut back low end unit that has to be added into your system just to hear their files at above standard quality. And it is much much much lower grade than what everyone of these reviewers are testing the files with.

For this to actually be successful they have got to add full capabilities as in inexpensive add on, or better yet as a software capability such as Roon.

What is currently being shown will not fly in any way for the real music lover, let alone for the average user.

So unless they are offering a 808v6 level machine at an affordable range their new system will crash and burn before it ever gets out of the gate.

 

[Mike]

MQA tech will come in all shapes and sizes (and price points). Will be MOSTLY available on Tidal ("master level" streaming), etc.

I know I heard some amazing examples, but I'm in the "wait and see" camp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[j2020]

Randy,
Er, Merdian would not expect the 808v6 to be for the masses for sure. They also have a lower priced Explorer DAC below $500 but even that can't be for the masses.
I agree that the 99.999---% out there will be happy with just Mp3 but I was just too excited about my discovery of the 808v6 and what it can do for redbook cd's that I posted here to share this transformational experience of mine. What it does with MQA is just an added bonus.
I am very happy listening now to redbook and non-MQA hi-res and can very much do without MQA anyway.

 

[Randy Myers]

J,

I would love a Meridian, however it is not in the cards.

 

[radioactive]

I'm not going nuclear, just voicing my opinion and trying to stick to the subject at hand. It's nice you got the 808, congrats, but it's not really germane to the subject that's all.

And it's nice you added in details on listening to MQA files, but your post was after the fact and very shallow on details.

 

[j2020]

I'm not going nuclear, just voicing my opinion and trying to stick to the subject at hand. It's nice you got the 808, congrats, but it's not really germane to the subject that's all.

And it's nice you added in details on listening to MQA files, but your post was after the fact and very shallow on details.

I guess I should not argue with the self-appointed forum police then. eace:

 

[still-one]

Which is absolutely fantastic for you, however 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of music listeners can not, or if they could, will not pay over $20k for a disk player....

If they could offer this type of player in the $1000 range they might have a decent chance of getting a good part of the people who care about quality music... ala many of those who contribute to forums such as this one. The general public will not go for this system where they require an expensive DAC to play it back at quality when they can play their mp3 files almost anywhere. I work with these people, we all do. The one guy who listen to music all day long with a better than average player (in other words not a phone but a separate flac player) thinks that I am nuts paying $2k for a new pre-amp, for example.

If they think this is going to fly then they are seriously misjudging the market. For every person such as yourself who can afford a $20k spinner there are thousands upon thousand who care about good music who can not.

And their only other solution that they have mentioned is a cut back low end unit that has to be added into your system just to hear their files at above standard quality. And it is much much much lower grade than what everyone of these reviewers are testing the files with.

For this to actually be successful they have got to add full capabilities as in inexpensive add on, or better yet as a software capability such as Roon.

What is currently being shown will not fly in any way for the real music lover, let alone for the average user.

So unless they are offering a 808v6 level machine at an affordable range their new system will crash and burn before it ever gets out of the gate.

Of course the long term viability MQA will not be decided by the masses who would never dream of spending the stupid amounts of money we allocate to this hobby. Hi-rez downloads, DSD files and LP's offered at $50 from Music Direct aren't targeted at them either. MQA will only succeed if the software rights owners decide to release sufficient product that cannot be readily "stolen" and redistributed in some unauthorized manner.

I have little doubt that within a short period of time the hardware/software required to play MQA files will fall within the same range as does the hardware required to play PCM, currently anywhere from $59 to $120,000.

 

[CDLehner]

Sorry; I just came across, the Q&A...which is the OP of this thread. So I'm wayyy late, to the party.

But I just posted this elsewhere; so what the hell...I'll share here (and probably take more of my usual lumps, lol)

First of all...I admit; I have only skimmed, thus far. As I think others have noted; if you're going to read the whole thing...pack a lunch! My goodness; 83 questions and answers!!??

From my skim...this has very little chance, of getting traction. My initial impression...and I think this Q&A, makes it clear; almost no one, really understands...what the hell it is yet! But my initial impression...is that it was a different compression algorithm; that would allow hi-res streaming...without such a strain on high bandwidth. In other words...instead of TIDAL and others, offering true Redbook 16/44.1; and that being the ceiling...for now. MQA would allow existing hi-res...whether that be 24/44.1, 24/48, 24-96; to be streamed from pay services.

But I thought it could be used, with existing titles! Like take a 24-96 file, at the server end; encode and like "zip" it up, so that it would transport across standard, good bandwidth. Then...be "un-zipped" or decoded, by a compatible player; and Voila.

But if I understand this Q&A correctly...and again, I admit to only skimming it for now; it does kinda do that...but 1) only if the material is recorded with MQA, 2) only if the streaming services licenses MQA, and 3) (of course) only if you have an MQA-compatible decoder, on your end.

Yeah...good luck with that

 

[rbbert]

And it's lossy compression...

 

[wklie]

MQA would allow existing hi-res...whether that be 24/44.1, 24/48, 24-96; to be streamed from pay services.

But I thought it could be used, with existing titles! Like take a 24-96 file, at the server end; encode and like "zip" it up, so that it would transport across standard, good bandwidth. Then...be "un-zipped" or decoded, by a compatible player; and Voila.

The compression ("folding") is not used with existing music files - this would not fit the MQA "end-to-end" description. The whole thing is meant to work together only with MQA processed sources. That's why both MQA and non-MQA versions of the same music are provided for demonstration.

 

[j2020]

I am sending my 808 in to be upgraded to v6 when I head to Europe in a couple of weeks. It should be ready when we get back. Since I am jumping from v3 the upgrade includes new analog and digital cards, upgrading to the ID41 card and adding a linear power supply.

Over the past few days of home auditioning, I have found that the computer environment in the 808v6 does not seem to be stable. At times, it would sound glorious and at others, it would be just ho-hum. By switching it off and unplugging the power cord, the magic came back but after a while, that would fade again. And repeating the power cord unplug routine brought the magic back and then later....well, you catch the drift.

It's a shame really but that's how it is. So, back it goes to the dealer. It may well just be an isolated problem with the demo unit.

I hope your upgrade turns out well.

 

[wklie]

By switching it off and unplugging the power cord, the magic came back but after a while, that would fade again.

Before power cycling the unit, does doing any of the followings recover the sound quality to what you intended?
- Playing CD
- Playing non-MQA files of various sampling rates
- Playing MQA files of various sampling rates
- Playing a DSD file
- Using different digital inputs (e.g. USB / coaxial)

 

[j2020]

Before power cycling the unit, does doing any of the followings recover the sound quality to what you intended?
- Playing CD
- Playing non-MQA files of various sampling rates
- Playing MQA files of various sampling rates
- Playing a DSD file

Did you mean after power cycling the unit?

 

[j2020]

Playing all of the above after power cycling the unit. DSD files are converted to PCM by JRiver as the 808v6 does not read DSD.

 

[wklie]

Did you mean after power cycling the unit?

Before. Just trying to see if there's another means of recovering it, other than power cycling.