MQA Discussion

still-one

still-one

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There is a very detailed Q&A with Bob Stuart discussing MQA on the Computeraudiophile site that was just posted. This is going to take some time to plow through.
 
The new May/June issue of The Absolute Sounds has a very large article on MQA... actually the cover story. I have not read the story yet.
 
My impression of the Absolute Sound article: I want to believe but it sounds too good to be true. Even if it was true, will the industry adopt it?

Cincy
 
For those attending T.H.E. Show Newport Beach check out MQA in room 1201.

That's it folks. That's all I know. I searched the room number and no other exhibitors were listed.

Meridian will be in rooms 1248 & 1249.
 
Does anyone know if MQA will be available for listening at AXPONA? If so, who is presenting the technology? It looks to me as if the obvious host, Meridian, is not holding court this weekend in Chicago.
 
So I'll start the flame then. There are two things I don't like about MQA:

1. The MQA file is not the same as the hi-rez pcm/DSD master that the recording studios don't want to let out of their vaults. This means they can hold on to their "precious" and not let the "perfect recording" out of their hands. The MQA DAC will take an MQA encoded file and produce the output equivalent of the hi-rez pcm/DSD master, but you can't get that in digital format, it's only available at the analog output. So the studios have another format to push on people and not let go of the real high quality recordings.
2. The MQA DAC is intended to light up a LED or some other indicator that says the signal is verified as the same as the master, thus the name Master Quality Authenticated. This is nothing more than a gimmick in my book. Any signal/file that is not doesn't get the little light or LED lit up. So what? Who cares? Really, is this what consumers have been reduced to as idiots who crave a stupid light telling us that only their special DAC chip can convert the signal into the equivalent of the original master? I mean, really.

MQA may sound great, but it's catering to the studios by giving them an intermediate format to release that is not DSD/WAV/Hi-Rez/etc. I don't like that they think consumers are stupid enough to not see through the gimmicks and shenanigans the studios are constantly throwing at us. The entire claim to fame of the format is that it's "smarter" and can account for sound travelling through air as the previous filters were unable to do. So why not just do what is right for everyone and make that high-rez signal available throughout the chain? I don't get the need to not give access to the full file and only make it available at the analog output and so I can't trust they have the consumer's interests at heart.

Maybe I am just so burned by the industry that I can't see altruism -- so please enlighten me if you believe otherwise.
 
radioactive said:
So I'll start the flame then. There are two things I don't like about MQA:

1. The MQA file is not the same as the hi-rez pcm/DSD master that the recording studios don't want to let out of their vaults. This means they can hold on to their "precious" and not let the "perfect recording" out of their hands. The MQA DAC will take an MQA encoded file and produce the output equivalent of the hi-rez pcm/DSD master, but you can't get that in digital format, it's only available at the analog output. So the studios have another format to push on people and not let go of the real high quality recordings.
2. The MQA DAC is intended to light up a LED or some other indicator that says the signal is verified as the same as the master, thus the name Master Quality Authenticated. This is nothing more than a gimmick in my book. Any signal/file that is not doesn't get the little light or LED lit up. So what? Who cares? Really, is this what consumers have been reduced to as idiots who crave a stupid light telling us that only their special DAC chip can convert the signal into the equivalent of the original master? I mean, really.

MQA may sound great, but it's catering to the studios by giving them an intermediate format to release that is not DSD/WAV/Hi-Rez/etc. I don't like that they think consumers are stupid enough to not see through the gimmicks and shenanigans the studios are constantly throwing at us. The entire claim to fame of the format is that it's "smarter" and can account for sound travelling through air as the previous filters were unable to do. So why not just do what is right for everyone and make that high-rez signal available throughout the chain? I don't get the need to not give access to the full file and only make it available at the analog output and so I can't trust they have the consumer's interests at heart.

Maybe I am just so burned by the industry that I can't see altruism -- so please enlighten me if you believe otherwise.
Click to expand...

What business in their right mind wants to give up their intellectual property rights. You seem to think we as software consumers have the right to this. Absolutely unbelievable.
 
Bryan - I can appreciate your skepticism of MQA. But when you heard it, what did you think? Did you finally hear digital that rivaled vinyl? Did you hear the phase imperfections with digital were finally fixed? Or were you not impressed?

As for the MQA file not being the same as the original PCM/DSD file, I say thank God. We already have those and they aren't perfect. My argument is that digital never gets the phase right like analog. Instruments don't have their proper space in time like I hear with Vinyl and tape.

I'm glad there is a new format. It's overdue. The AD converters have gotten better, but they are still not perfect. MQA proposes to correct many faults in the AD process.

I am not proclaiming MQA to be a panacea - as I said, in my many listening experiences - some were good, others were "meh". TBD is my answer for now.

MQA's showing at Axpona was poor. There was a PSB/NAD setup and then a headphone setup with Mytek. Disappointing there wasn't a big MQA room.

MQA also will be mostly available through Tidal. That's good because I'm not sure how many more Miles Davis Kind of Blue copies I'm willing to buy.

As for the LED light, well, remember, MQA is not marketed to audiophiles, Meridian wants to make it a mass market format. But perhaps the LED light will give the list need reassurance they are listening to MQA. Right now we have read outs on many DAC's showing "16/44" or "DSD".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
My biggest question is totaling understanding the setup needed to play it back. the Absolute Sound long long article was more praising the second coming then explaining exactly how it will be implemented. The backward compatible is BS to me. So I am going to get these new type of files and even if I don't have support I can still listen to them in Redbook quality. Woopy doo....

But, he never really explained exactly what you need to play them at the quality he was describing. Most of us can not afford the Meridian gear that he was using.

So, I have heard that Roon is compatible. Ok, cool, but is this all that is needed or is this only one part of the equation? Will special DACs also be needed? Again not all of us can run out and buy a new DAC just because of this new format no matter how good TAS makes it sound. So is Roon all I need or would I also need a new DAC.

Also, he obviously has been drinking the Meridian kool-aid.... I do not believe he did any real comparisons to DSD, but mainly Redbook and some PCM. In my book DSD is vastly better than both of those.... so how does MQA compare here. Obviously one of his main focuses was streaming and Tidal... again... to many people big woopy do... I care not for streaming and I am not going to subscribe to another service. I believe that streaming itself has a long long way to go before I will ever be interested in it.

I did not buy a nice stereo to stream music which eats up band width. I mean we already have over 20 devices in the house competing for band width. Streaming will make it just that much worse.

And another obvious thought, just how long do you think it will be before Internet providers start capping our data. And then what? No, if I want music I purchase it. So, how does MQA fall here.... also, I have my main Roon Server, but I also have music on my portable, and on a separate server for my headphone setup. With the "authorization" system will I be able to listen in all three setups? Also, Authorization implies that the system has to be "online" and reaches back to the mother ship to give authority to play certain music. So how will this work when not online, ala, my portable in my office?

None of these practical type questions were addressed in TAS article, only the proclamation of the second coming was, obviously after having a huge gulp of the Meridian kool-aide.
 
I appreciate your point, but what I'm saying is that we're specifically paying for the hi-rez copy, not the lower quality already. So yes, there are software businesses that sell exclusive rights, I know because I'm in the business. Sure, it costs more to exclusively license, which is the equivalent to buying the rights to listen to the hi-rez files. I'd also argue that any business should be more than happy to license such a deal as it can generate more revenue than a limited license so yes, I'm absolutely aware of what I'm saying. I stick by my statement Jim.


still-one said:
What business in their right mind wants to give up their intellectual property rights. You seem to think we as software consumers have the right to this. Absolutely unbelievable.
Click to expand...
 
Like most format issues/wars they are determined by consumers who are often aware of the issues. This is a very complicated issue and I wonder how many consumers are going to fully understand everything. As for DAC compatibility, supposedly all DAC's in the future will be able to decode MQA so yes, you'll have to buy a new DAC (or perhaps one that supports it via a new FW where they can make significant changes that way. One example would be FPGA based DAC's.)

Anyone remember divx ?


Randy Myers said:
My biggest question is totaling understanding the setup needed to play it back. the Absolute Sound long long article was more praising the second coming then explaining exactly how it will be implemented. The backward compatible is BS to me. So I am going to get these new type of files and even if I don't have support I can still listen to them in Redbook quality. Woopy doo....

But, he never really explained exactly what you need to play them at the quality he was describing. Most of us can not afford the Meridian gear that he was using.

So, I have heard that Roon is compatible. Ok, cool, but is this all that is needed or is this only one part of the equation? Will special DACs also be needed? Again not all of us can run out and buy a new DAC just because of this new format no matter how good TAS makes it sound. So is Roon all I need or would I also need a new DAC.

Also, he obviously has been drinking the Meridian kool-aid.... I do not believe he did any real comparisons to DSD, but mainly Redbook and some PCM. In my book DSD is vastly better than both of those.... so how does MQA compare here. Obviously one of his main focuses was streaming and Tidal... again... to many people big woopy do... I care not for streaming and I am not going to subscribe to another service. I believe that streaming itself has a long long way to go before I will ever be interested in it.

I did not buy a nice stereo to stream music which eats up band width. I mean we already have over 20 devices in the house competing for band width. Streaming will make it just that much worse.

And another obvious thought, just how long do you think it will be before Internet providers start capping our data. And then what? No, if I want music I purchase it. So, how does MQA fall here.... also, I have my main Roon Server, but I also have music on my portable, and on a separate server for my headphone setup. With the "authorization" system will I be able to listen in all three setups? Also, Authorization implies that the system has to be "online" and reaches back to the mother ship to give authority to play certain music. So how will this work when not online, ala, my portable in my office?

None of these practical type questions were addressed in TAS article, only the proclamation of the second coming was, obviously after having a huge gulp of the Meridian kool-aide.
Click to expand...
 
Mike,

I thought it sounded like hi-rez and nothing more. Not sure what that means, but I wasn't impressed; perhaps I just didn't drink enough cool-aid first ;) I do believe it's possible to make a recording sound better, and that algorithms have significantly improved in the last 30 years -- mathematical computation has come a long way and much of that has produced some incredible data to formulate theory. I'm sure we could do a lot better than what we have now. My issue is in trying to "protect" for the sake of profit, rather than actually making something that is the equivalent of lossless compression (which by the way came from public source, not from-profit which is why I question anything that comes from an entity that is for-profit when it comes to "standards/rfc's, etc."). I also realize that companies (and people working for them) need to make profits, but as a consumer, I've grown to mistrust the music industry and MQA feels like something the recording labels came up with more than anything else. Do we have actual numbers that back who/what paid for all the research and investment in MQA? I'm not a conspiracy theorists, just asking a question because I'm actually interested in that data.


Mike said:
Bryan - I can appreciate your skepticism of MQA. But when you heard it, what did you think? Did you finally hear digital that rivaled vinyl? Did you hear the phase imperfections with digital were finally fixed? Or were you not impressed?

As for the MQA file not being the same as the original PCM/DSD file, I say thank God. We already have those and they aren't perfect. My argument is that digital never gets the phase right like analog. Instruments don't have their proper space in time like I hear with Vinyl and tape.

I'm glad there is a new format. It's overdue. The AD converters have gotten better, but they are still not perfect. MQA proposes to correct many faults in the AD process.

I am not proclaiming MQA to be a panacea - as I said, in my many listening experiences - some were good, others were "meh". TBD is my answer for now.

MQA's showing at Axpona was poor. There was a PSB/NAD setup and then a headphone setup with Mytek. Disappointing there wasn't a big MQA room.

MQA also will be mostly available through Tidal. That's good because I'm not sure how many more Miles Davis Kind of Blue copies I'm willing to buy.

As for the LED light, well, remember, MQA is not marketed to audiophiles, Meridian wants to make it a mass market format. But perhaps the LED light will give the list need reassurance they are listening to MQA. Right now we have read outs on many DAC's showing "16/44" or "DSD".


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
 
Unless I'm mistaken, Bob Stuart from Meridian paid for it.

If you're frustrated with digital - try sticking with vinyl or better yet, grab a nice Studer or Ampex like I've done and get back to tape. "Nothing sounds like tape." Chad's announcement at the tape forum on Friday at Axpona was great to hear.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thanks Mike, you always have a way of bringing it home ;). Frankly, I might go back to analog if it weren't for the lack of convenience. I don't hate digital, For starters, I am leery of another proclaimed panacea. That and I love a good discourse :). I may play devil's advocate just to be sure I'm hearing everyone's side. Ultimately, I highly doubt this will take hold; there are too many issues. But if we can get them all out in the open at least everyone can try to make an informed decision.

For the record, (no pun intended), I happen to enjoy digital. The convenience, ease of access to new, rare, or hard to obtain music cannot be under appreciated. So to me, if MQA even manages to bring an end to "the loudness wars", I consider it a win. If it improves the standard, regular quality that the masses get then it's a win. I just do not want it leading to an end to audiophiles' access to high quality recordings, which we barely got.
 
- LED: My understanding is that it helps verify the data is not tampered with accidentally, say, via inaccurate CD rip with read error (which is quite common), software setting or processing or bug that destroyed the data integrity via format conversion between WAV / FLAC / ALAC / AIFF (MQA is designed to survive such format conversion), or something as simple as digital volume, or your computer OS re-sampling and/or re-mixing the music. I guess the LED helps users confirm the setup is correct. This is perhaps not unlike DTS-HDMA lighting up on an AV amplifier.

- What you need: I think the simple answer is that you'll need to purchase a MQA DAC, or hope that your DAC manufacturer provides some kind of upgrade path.

- Being online: as far as I understand, this is not necessary and it is not DRM.
 
radioactive said:
Thanks Mike, you always have a way of bringing it home ;). Frankly, I might go back to analog if it weren't for the lack of convenience. I don't hate digital, For starters, I am leery of another proclaimed panacea. That and I love a good discourse :). I may play devil's advocate just to be sure I'm hearing everyone's side. Ultimately, I highly doubt this will take hold; there are too many issues. But if we can get them all out in the open at least everyone can try to make an informed decision.

For the record, (no pun intended), I happen to enjoy digital. The convenience, ease of access to new, rare, or hard to obtain music cannot be under appreciated. So to me, if MQA even manages to bring an end to "the loudness wars", I consider it a win. If it improves the standard, regular quality that the masses get then it's a win. I just do not want it leading to an end to audiophiles' access to high quality recordings, which we barely got.
Click to expand...

Bryan - thanks. I understand the "here we go again" with the heralded claims of a perfect format. But at least we have something to fuss about and aren't stuck with the same old same old.

I would encourage you to get a Vinyl rig... I'm a huge fan and always have been. With RCM's, the "inconvenience" is dramatically decreased.
 
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