MQA Discussion

Let's keep in mind that Meridian doesn't give a sh!t about what audiophiles may or may not think about MQA. They are developing MQA as a MASS MARKET product, mostly for streaming. Think of Apple iTunes. Apple didn't give a crap that audiophiles were aghast they were selling horrible compressed MP3's for literally the same price as the CD, they were selling to the mass market.

As for the A/B? Well, I did my own at CES...so not sure what the fuss is over.
 
Mike said:
Let's keep in mind that Meridian doesn't give a sh!t about what audiophiles may or may not think about MQA. They are developing MQA as a MASS MARKET product, mostly for streaming. Think of Apple iTunes. Apple didn't give a crap that audiophiles were aghast they were selling horrible compressed MP3's for literally the same price as the CD, they were selling to the mass market.

As for the A/B? Well, I did my own at CES...so not sure what the fuss is over.
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I must disagree here, Mike.

Meridian are trying to establish a control point where none is needed. And to do that they are using a flawed argument.


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Kuoppis said:
I must disagree here, Mike.

Meridian are trying to establish a control point where none is needed. And to do that they are using a flawed argument.


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But who do they care about? Audiophiles or mass market? I think we know the answer.

They are no interested in audiophile A/B shootouts.

Soon enough we will be doing more of our own.
 
Mike said:
But who do they care about? Audiophiles or mass market? I think we know the answer.

They are no interested in audiophile A/B shootouts.

Soon enough we will be doing more of our own.
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Mike
Manufacturers can't win. According to audio-fools in this hobby the ulterior motive for every new development is "money". You'd think audiophiles were all communists they way the bitch about not getting something for free. We all know everything is stupidly priced in this hobby when compared compared to mass market or commodity priced alternatives. That said we happily open our wallets if it something that catches our eye.

I could go on but it's not worth arguing. I just get tired of blanket statements that are spit out as "The Truth".
 
I wonder how MQA would be treated if it was Sony coming out with the format?

Jim - I agree and the point is not to knuckle Meridian into a corner for an audiophile A/B shootout. The point is that this is a way to bring high resolution audio to streaming services. Zip/unzip, enjoy. Whether it sounds better than existing digital formats remains to be seen. Like I've said before, in my own demos, some were fabulous, others were just ok - meaning, they didn't sound a whole lot better than the PCM version. But were those samples that were "just ok" ready for primetime? Who knows? Maybe they're still baking. :)
 
Mike said:
I wonder how MQA would be treated if it was Sony coming out with the format?

Jim - I agree and the point is not to knuckle Meridian into a corner for an audiophile A/B shootout. The point is that this is a way to bring high resolution audio to streaming services. Zip/unzip, enjoy. Whether it sounds better than existing digital formats remains to be seen. Like I've said before, in my own demos, some were fabulous, others were just ok - meaning, they didn't sound a whole lot better than the PCM version. But were those samples that were "just ok" ready for primetime? Who knows? Maybe they're still baking. :)
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Like you the demo's I heard were a mixed bag from nothing special to as good as I have heard. Now having upgraded my 808 to v6 I can play the four albums of unfamiliar music I have. They sound good for music I would not normally be playing so no judgements on MQA will be forthcoming until music I care about is available for audition. (Come on Warner or Tidal)

I wil tell you that the upgrade to v6 is probably the biggest improvement I have experienced in this hobby. All my Sooloos and Tidal tracks sound so much better that MQA files are an afterthought.
 
Mike said:
I wonder how MQA would be treated if it was Sony coming out with the format?

Jim - I agree and the point is not to knuckle Meridian into a corner for an audiophile A/B shootout. The point is that this is a way to bring high resolution audio to streaming services. Zip/unzip, enjoy. Whether it sounds better than existing digital formats remains to be seen. Like I've said before, in my own demos, some were fabulous, others were just ok - meaning, they didn't sound a whole lot better than the PCM version. But were those samples that were "just ok" ready for primetime? Who knows? Maybe they're still baking. :)
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Huh?! - If the value proposition is MQA sounds better than anything heard before, and that is the reason to rework your entire library, then that can't be turned around into 'don't push Meridian into the corner because they just want to enable good streaming'. Those are two completely different things.

The point is, if they claim to be better than everything else, then it should not be a problem to do public A/B comparisons on random HW. Meridian is not doing that and that is extremely suspicious.

If someone claims to be the best, then good is not good enough anymore. So it is entirely their own fault, guess they will disappear with all the other short term fads. I'll side with the late Gary Moore who sang: "There are two things I can't stand, cold hearted women and lying men." [emoji2]

But I was wondering anyway, as they are demoing with Meridian speakers, it can't be that special. Because those speakers aren't.


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Kuoppis said:
Huh?! - If the value proposition is MQA sounds better than anything heard before, and that is the reason to rework your entire library, then that can't be turned around into 'don't push Meridian into the corner because they just want to enable good streaming'. Those are two completely different things.

The point is, if they claim to be better than everything else, then it should not be a problem to do public A/B comparisons on random HW. Meridian is not doing that and that is extremely suspicious.

If someone claims to be the best, then good is not good enough anymore. So it is entirely their own fault, guess they will disappear with all the other short term fads. I'll side with the late Gary Moore who sang: "There are two things I can't stand, cold hearted women and lying men." [emoji2]

But I was wondering anyway, as they are demoing with Meridian speakers, it can't be that special. Because those speakers aren't.


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I agree with you on the Meridian speakers and to be honest, I didn't hear MQA at its best until I heard it on the PSB's with NAD gear (go figure) at CES. But the point is that the marketing isn't aimed at "let's convert all the audiophiles". It's aimed at the masses. Audiophiles are looking for substance - give me the facts man! The marketing is a lot of hype aimed at the masses. The jury is still out on where MQA will actually fall. I for one think it has good potential and will ultimately succeed.

Now here's the question: have you heard MQA? Any demo? I would caution those jumping on Meridian to just hold back until you've heard it. That being said, there is an overwhelming consensus among those who have heard MQA of "amazing" and "meh". A mixed bag.
 
Mike said:
I agree with you on the Meridian speakers and to be honest, I didn't hear MQA at its best until I heard it on the PSB's with NAD gear (go figure) at CES. But the point is that the marketing isn't aimed at "let's convert all the audiophiles". It's aimed at the masses. Audiophiles are looking for substance - give me the facts man! The marketing is a lot of hype aimed at the masses. The jury is still out on where MQA will actually fall. I for one think it has good potential and will ultimately succeed.

Now here's the question: have you heard MQA? Any demo? I would caution those jumping on Meridian to just hold back until you've heard it. That being said, there is an overwhelming consensus among those who have heard MQA of "amazing" and "meh". A mixed bag.
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Have only heard a rather short demo on Meridian speakers at a dealer's who thought it's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I did not hear anything I could not live without.

Another critique I have heard is that in other demos they use equipment worth a couple hundred grand, through which probably mp3s would sound gorgeous.

And I get your point about the masses, but I am not sure whether I buy it. The masses are actually squeaking happy with mp3s and 96k streaming via Spotify.


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As Joe started off in the Betamax vs VHS thread....

http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=10048&p=173950&viewfull=1#post173950

A digital delivery standard that is just good enough to re-capture the pre-existing MP3 and AAC market shares.

A 44KHz dithered stream. Well I suppose with the hardware decoder to unpack & process potentially meaningless upper frequency data, it has to be better than any streaming currently out there.

Something similar is set to be announced by Dolby soon. And The Dolby Standard is the VHS of digital.

So this I believe will be ultimately about MQA vs Dolby (Stream).

With ex Dolby execs working hard at Apple and Apple set to release a new generation of consolidated (wireless) products, I loathe to think who is going to win the digital streaming wars.

I don't really see MQA or it's emergent competition having any relevance for hi-res digital downloads. It's quite possible that the record companies are going to kill off hi-res digital downloads as we know them today once a certifiable standard wins out. If that happens, then the diminishing gains that hi-end hi-fi delivers will become less relevant.

IMO, there is a limited future market for developing hi-end hi-fi further into the future of standardised digital delivery. The paradigm of analogue resolution evolution from which the aging audiophile had become accustomed to is in its twilight age. We are already seeing hi-end brands repositioning their product lines downwards to mid-fi lifestyle quality and price points. Sadly, the audiophile is a dying breed. One that will be finally killed off and fossilised by the large record companies in control of the catalogues. Why, because with advancing technology, distributing archival studio master quality media is uncommercial longer term.

Just good enough to the subscribing on demand masses will win out. I pray, may the best format win this time. I will end up dying with fine museum collectibles, analogue sword held high, in a field strewn with digital consumerism carnage.

Just remember, whatever your digital poison will become, the end playback result has to be analogue. Long live analogue.
 
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For those of us who do not care about streaming there appears to be minimal advantages to MQA. I am also concerned that most demos that I read about are done on extreme systems that very few people could afford.

I also read a very interesting article where a top personnel from PS Audio was quoted as saying that they are not and will not support MQA so long as it requires additional hardware decoding to perform it's best. PS Audio will only consider this format if it is implemented in a software only decoding.
 
I think a hardware decoder that will set a particular verifiable format standard for the industry to distribute their catalogues in the most profitable manner is inevitable.

Historically, Sony's attempts have been technically admirable but they always failed with the timing & execution to market.
 
Randy Myers said:
PS Audio will only consider this format if it is implemented in a software only decoding.
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Do you know why? It's because Meridian requires anyone wanting the secret MQA sauce to disclose in full detail their DAC's - including anything proprietary. I would guess that the PS Audio DirectStream by converting everything to DSD, not to mention their ability to tweak the sound via FPGA definitely constitutes as proprietary.

My issue with MQA is: hurry up! We've been hearing about MQA for a while now. There seems to be no timeline. No plan. If they said, "we will be launching MQA on Tidal on July 1, 2016", we could work toward a date.

Get on with it boys! Time to sh!t or get off the pot.
 
In the article with PS Audio it was all to do with the filtering being applied by MQA. I admit that I do not understand this much, however from what I remember from the article the gentleman from PS Audio was talking about how the MQA filtering would conflict with their own and they would have to fundamentally change in hardware how the file is handled for MQA versus any other format. Again, I might not be relating this back correctly, but I do recall that they feel there is a fundamental contradiction within the hardware and they will not support MQA until it can be decoded 100% in software. That is what I got out of the article, and no, I do not have a link to the article, sorry....

I also agree with our final statement....

Mike said:
Do you know why? It's because Meridian requires anyone wanting the secret MQA sauce to disclose in full detail their DAC's - including anything proprietary. I would guess that the PS Audio DirectStream by converting everything to DSD, not to mention their ability to tweak the sound via FPGA definitely constitutes as proprietary.

My issue with MQA is: hurry up! We've been hearing about MQA for a while now. There seems to be no timeline. No plan. If they said, "we will be launching MQA on Tidal on July 1, 2016", we could work toward a date.

Get on with it boys! Time to sh!t or get off the pot.
Click to expand...
 
Randy Myers said:
In the article with PS Audio it was all to do with the filtering being applied by MQA. I admit that I do not understand this much, however from what I remember from the article the gentleman from PS Audio was talking about how the MQA filtering would conflict with their own and they would have to fundamentally change in hardware how the file is handled for MQA versus any other format. Again, I might not be relating this back correctly, but I do recall that they feel there is a fundamental contradiction within the hardware and they will not support MQA until it can be decoded 100% in software. That is what I got out of the article, and no, I do not have a link to the article, sorry....
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Bob Stuart basically said that MQA files must be decoded and processed only in the manner designated by MQA. In case PS Audio becomes a MQA licensee, then they would be allowed to do their own audio processing only on non-MQA files.

Links:
http://www.audiostream.com/content/ps-audios-paul-mcgowan-weighs-mqa#gmAFwLMVrm0Jvrp2.97
[url]http://www.psaudio.com/forum/directstream-all-about-it/mqa-controversy/page-3/#p56676
[/URL]
 
wklie said:
The sonic benefit comes from time domain deblurring / minimizing pre-ringing and post-ringing.
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For those apparent benefits, those implementing into their DAC products have to play ball which means any proprietary esoteric sauces becomes virtually irrelevant. Essentially, all DAC products should then sound the same. DACs will set to become as cheap as chips.
 
Perhaps MQA is a government conspiracy! A derived technological method to surreptitiously fold and deliver additional data into the lower frequencies for mass population mind suggestion and control.....:Bow:
 
Mike said:
Do you know why? It's because Meridian requires anyone wanting the secret MQA sauce to disclose in full detail their DAC's - including anything proprietary. I would guess that the PS Audio DirectStream by converting everything to DSD, not to mention their ability to tweak the sound via FPGA definitely constitutes as proprietary.

My issue with MQA is: hurry up! We've been hearing about MQA for a while now. There seems to be no timeline. No plan. If they said, "we will be launching MQA on Tidal on July 1, 2016", we could work toward a date.

Get on with it boys! Time to sh!t or get off the pot.
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It does appear is that way, MQA's "our way" or NO way attitude turns me off to their product. I would bet the same MQA secret sauce could be duplicated via software. And yes this was talked about years ago.

I like these comments in a Q&A session (April 2016)

Q4. Where do you think MQA is a year from now?

A4. The MQA project has a long timeline, but our hope is that inside a year:

  • .. major and independent music label groups in Japan, Europe and the USA will be using MQA
    as an integral part of their business. This is the key – helping the music industry to distribute a more accessible product to bring a better listening experience to many.
  • .. many companies currently incorporating MQA will have announced products.
  • .. a significant number of studios involved in high-quality recording will be using MQA tools to
    make great new releases.
  • .. we will have seen services launched using MQA streaming for live events.


Q7. What is the time Schedule for MQA streaming release? Are any major Labels incorporating this kind of encoding?

A7. We are in discussion with a number of streaming services. However it is up to them to make their own announcements.
:popcorn::skeptical:
 
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