MQA already dead in the water? No full decoding DAC alternatives...

Unworthy said:
thanks! Now that the power supplies in a graded in the case, that would lead me to believe that it’s better than the previous outboard supply. Is it the same price?
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$2300 instead of $2k.


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Kuoppis said:
The finale: a conclusion.



PLEASE NOTE: Also a significant correction to the PS Audio DSD DAC capabilities: As outlined by Vade Forrester in this month’s TAS (December issue), the DAC only does MQA unfolding and only through the network connection, i.e. the first level. So no full MQA, one DAC less on the list. The interesting thing is that I had received a written confirmation from PS Audio earlier that it supports full MQA. How about that.

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You misread that article.

"[FONT=&quot]the latest Dec version of TAS page 83[/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]" [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The latest Bridge II card “unfolds” MQA-encoded files. Unfolding[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]is the first decoding step in MQA, converting the file[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]from 48kHz to the file’s original sampling frequency. It is not,[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]however, the full MQA decoding. PS Audio was able to achieve[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]this modification with a firmware change, rather than via a modification[/FONT]



[FONT=&quot]of its hardware. After the MQA signal is unfolded, the[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]DirectStream DAC treats it like any other PCM signal:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" [/FONT]






from PS Audio today "To be absolutely clear, yes, the Bridge II plus our DSD or DSJ DAC does the full unfold of MQA files."
 
Kuoppis said:
The finale: a conclusion.


PLEASE NOTE: Also a significant correction to the PS Audio DSD DAC capabilities: As outlined by Vade Forrester in this month’s TAS (December issue), the DAC only does MQA unfolding and only through the network connection, i.e. the first level. So no full MQA, one DAC less on the list. The interesting thing is that I had received a written confirmation from PS Audio earlier that it supports full MQA. How about that.

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Click to expand...


I think you misread the article , I underlined where the author noted how PS Audio performed a full unfold.

the latest Dec version of TAS page 83


"

"The latest Bridge II card “unfolds” MQA-encoded files. Unfolding
is the first decoding step in MQA, converting the file
from 48kHz to the file’s original sampling frequency. It is not,
however, the full MQA decoding. PS Audio was able to achievethis modification with a firmware change, rather than via a modification
of its hardware. After the MQA signal is unfolded, the
DirectStream DAC treats it like any other PCM signal:"


Also I mentioned this to PS Audio and they responded "To be absolutely clear, yes, the Bridge II plus our DSD or DSJ DAC does the full unfold of MQA files."

As an example; A full unfold at the DS " the little MQA" symbol, which is exactly what I get on my Lumin

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CPP said:
You misread that article.

"[FONT=&quot]the latest Dec version of TAS page 83[/FONT] [FONT=&quot] [/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]" [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]The latest Bridge II card “unfolds” MQA-encoded files. Unfolding[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]is the first decoding step in MQA, converting the file[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]from 48kHz to the file’s original sampling frequency. It is not,[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]however, the full MQA decoding. PS Audio was able to achieve[/FONT]


[FONT=&quot]this modification with a firmware change, rather than via a modification[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]of its hardware. After the MQA signal is unfolded, the[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]DirectStream DAC treats it like any other PCM signal:[/FONT][FONT=&quot]" [/FONT]

from PS Audio today "To be absolutely clear, yes, the Bridge II plus our DSD or DSJ DAC does the full unfold of MQA files."
Click to expand...

Try again, I said it can only unfold, not decode.

However, PS Audio they told me in writing that it can do full decoding.

In comparison, Vade Forrester says in his Bridge II review in Dec 17 TAS issue it only unfolds.

Two different sets of information, you pick what you think is correct. For now I am siding with Vade, as the PS Audio info came from a sales guy and those guys usually don’t know how to spell their own name right. Time will tell.


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Kuoppis said:
Try again, I said it can only unfold, not decode.

However, PS Audio they told me in writing that it can do full decoding.

In comparison, Vade Forrester says in his Bridge II review in Dec 17 TAS issue it only unfolds.

Two different sets of information, you pick what you think is correct. For now I am siding with Vade, as the PS Audio info came from a sales guy and those guys usually don’t know how to spell their own name right. Time will tell.


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Click to expand...

the full MQA decoding. PS Audio was able to achieve this modification with a firmware change,

And that resides in the DAC with the Bridge II so I'm sticking with the people that designed the DAC
 
CPP said:
I'm sticking with the people that designed the DAC
Click to expand...

I would usually too, but I was anyhow wondering how they would implement full MQA just with a network card. Maybe the Huron SW was not available at the time of the review.


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CPP said:
And that resides in the DAC with the Bridge II so I'm sticking with the people that designed the DAC
Click to expand...


Maybe, just maybe, you might want to think that through: The firmware sits in the network card? How would they operate the DAC before adding the network card?

I think they needed the network card (Bridge II) and a firmware upgrade (Huron SW) to make it work.


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Full decoding was not available until Huron and the firmware upgrade to the Bridge II the last of which occured around the end of July. It was a two step process.
 
Bottom line is if you want to try it then get a home demo of the DS DAC with Bridge II and both fully updated. Another alternative is the Directstream Jr. which ships with the Bridge II card and also uses Huron. Mark (mep) reviewed it for PFO several months ago.
 
Jack said:
Bottom line is if you want to try it then get a home demo of the DS DAC with Bridge II and both fully updated. Another alternative is the Directstream Jr. which ships with the Bridge II card and also uses Huron. Mark (mep) reviewed it for PFO several months ago.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jack, I listened to the DS DAC last weekend. What is important to me is that the DAC suits my overall sound preferences. The risk is that if I would evaluate MQA based on a DAC which is not my cup of tea with non MQA material, I might draw wrong conclusions.

So I also looked into the Lumins, but I would need to go to S1 level to get a realistic feeling for MQA and that is too much for a test. And it is a standard Sabre Streamer/ DAC, which is not my preference either.

Further I will hear the Brinkman Nyquist soon, but I am afraid it might be too mellow (and there are some challenges with the measured performance). I am however inquiring whether those have been fixed by now.

Then I also inquired with T+A whether their superb DSD DAC might get a MQA treatment at some point, but they could not tell. They will however put it forward to R&D for consideration.

So, that’s why I put the MQA effort on ice for a while until more suitable options become available. I kind of lost interest a bit as the MQA options are really limited at this point.


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Kuoppis said:
Thanks Jack, I listened to the DS DAC last weekend. What is important to me is that the DAC suits my overall sound preferences. The risk is that if I would evaluate MQA based on a DAC which is not my cup of tea with non MQA material, I might draw wrong conclusions.

So I also looked into the Lumins, but I would need to go to S1 level to get a realistic feeling for MQA and that is too much for a test. And it is a standard Sabre Streamer/ DAC, which is not my preference either.

Further I will hear the Brinkman Nyquist soon, but I am afraid it might be too mellow (and there are some challenges with the measured performance). I am however inquiring whether those have been fixed by now.

Then I also inquired with T+A whether their superb DSD DAC might get a MQA treatment at some point, but they could not tell. They will however put it forward to R&D for consideration.

So, that’s why I put the MQA effort on ice for a while until more suitable options become available. I kind of lost interest a bit as the MQA options are really limited at this point.


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Great research! Really enjoyed reading your adventures. Agreed on MQA, too early to see a large plethora of DAC options. Maybe in a year?


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Mike said:
Great research! Really enjoyed reading your adventures. Agreed on MQA, too early to see a large plethora of DAC options. Maybe in a year?


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I think that sounds about right. And there’s nice stuff already coming, like e.g. the Esoteric N-05.

If I could make a wish I just would like to see some of the boutique DAC specialists joining in like Bricasti, Meitner, Playback Designs or Ayre (unlikely), as well as some of the good European brands like Nagra or T+A.
 
Kuoppis

I agree with you about finding a DAC that suits your taste as a long term solution. That was my reason for buying the used D1/Sbooster combo from a friend who was upgrading. If I want to listen to an MQA selection I use the Balanced outputs straight to the preamp, other wise I use it strictly as a streamer with the digital out to my DAC. I can still hear if there is a level of difference or not. Based on the material available I still don't make decisions around MQA. If I wouldn't listen to material normally I won't listen to it as MQA either. My curiosity about the DS DAC is strictly based on it as a DAC without the Bridge II. I suspect that many of the companies you mentioned have as many questions about the long term financial viability of Tidal as they do MQA. They are losing money by the boatloads as it is and the cost of their needed infrastructure upgrades will be staggering. These companies may be smart to see what shakes out with both. A solution like the one PS Audio using as an optional upgrade may be the smart play for now. It is my understanding that the Ayre could have the same capabilities if Charles chose to change his mind.
 
Jack said:
Kuoppis

I agree with you about finding a DAC that suits your taste as a long term solution. That was my reason for buying the used D1/Sbooster combo from a friend who was upgrading. If I want to listen to an MQA selection I use the Balanced outputs straight to the preamp, other wise I use it strictly as a streamer with the digital out to my DAC. I can still hear if there is a level of difference or not. Based on the material available I still don't make decisions around MQA. If I wouldn't listen to material normally I won't listen to it as MQA either. My curiosity about the DS DAC is strictly based on it as a DAC without the Bridge II. I suspect that many of the companies you mentioned have as many questions about the long term financial viability of Tidal as they do MQA. They are losing money by the boatloads as it is and the cost of their needed infrastructure upgrades will be staggering. These companies may be smart to see what shakes out with both. A solution like the one PS Audio using as an optional upgrade may be the smart play for now. It is my understanding that the Ayre could have the same capabilities if Charles chose to change his mind.
Click to expand...

Spot on Jack, very much the same thoughts.

And Charlie? Technically he could do MQA with the QX-5/20 tomorrow if he would like to. The same DAC chip is used in some of the MQA DACs and he has a FPGA based platform that could be updated OTA w/o ever even touching the HW. But I guess the point is he’s not a friend of the MQA concept as a whole, and I can relate to that.


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"Not a friend" is a polite way of phrasing his thoughts on the subject. For now until I see what the Aries G2 or others have to offer in the future I am satisfied with my current approach of using the Lumin either way and swapping out the DAC's as the mood suits. That takes about five minutes total to swap between the usual two or a couple of others still in a spare room used for storage.
 
Kuoppis said:
Spot on Jack, very much the same thoughts.

And Charley? Technically he could do MQA with the QX-5/20 tomorrow if he would like to. The same DAC chip is used in some of the MQA DACs and he has a FPGA based platform that could be updated OTA w/o ever even touching the HW. But I guess the point is he’s not a friend of the MQA concept as a whole, and I can relate to that.


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Click to expand...

I think Charlie is so far into talking down MQA that getting out of that hole could be difficult .



Have have given the MSB Analog Dac with the MQA module a thought, they make excellent gear and offer so many modules to custom fit a persons system.
 
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