Monday morning musings....

Jax - good post. A couple of things, we have only been up a little over a year and our growth has been remarkable. But hopefully over time, post counts will increase. Summer is slow too FWIW.

As for the uber expensive gear, I agree. I try my best to talk about "value" gear like Line Magnetic and others. But inevitably, conversations often turn back to the latest "$45,000 DAC" or $100,000 amp. I much prefer finding smoking values out there - like the JOB225 and LM518, then the latest $100,000 amp from Boulder, DartZeel or whomever.

Most importantly - I would like to see more posts on new artists. At the end of the day, it's all about the music.


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I personally am interested in "value" gear, granted I swim in the shallow end of the audiophile pool my dual purpose setup cost me around $6,200 and doesn't include the price of a piece that was gifted to me (the ZPhono). I can't afford to go out and drop oh say that much on a single piece just yet in my life and audio journey, and yeah I'll admit to getting ears on Focal's Grande Utopia EM speakers powered by a rather impressive rack of Bryston gear in a proper room for the set up, they sounded too sterile to my ears. We all have our preferences for sure but some of us, are happy in the shallow end and can assemble something special by searching out killer deals, specific used pieces (stares at Bud and his fabulous Magico's).

I'll end my run on the soapbox before I get into trouble here lol.
 
I haven't Cyril. Been laying low....more interested in what others are doing....and quite frankly, just to be honest, got tired of taking crap for changing gear.

I will put it back up - I guess.

Interesting topic. This is common among audiophiles. People who don't swap much gear are offended or disgusted by those who do. There is frequently a condescension or outright contempt from the gear huggers toward the gear swappers. The funny thing is that the gear swappers are never contemptuous of the gear huggers.

Ive never understood this because to me, gear swapping IS the hobby. Sure sure music is also highly important but I consider music a separate hobby that is symbiotic with the gear swapping hobby. The gear huggers seem to thing that it's crazy to keep swapping gear when you just got it but that's because they do not understand the hobby. The hobby is an attempt to build the most synergistic gear that ticks every box and provides maximum enjoyment as you define it. My question for the gear huggers is, how the heck is that achieved if you stick with the first amp (or preamp or speakers or DAC or TT) you buy? I can guarantee you that if someone had just handed me a sack of money when I first got into this hobby and said go buy a high end system it would have been ok, but unlikely to have been great. A great system is only achieved by trying many different components to see which ones you like best and which ones compliment each other most. This cannot be achieved in a dealer show room either. It takes many hours with a component to understand it fully. And that cannot be done without the context of the rest of your system and your listening space.

So, all I'm saying is swap away. Buy and sell like crazy. It's fun and healthy. As long as one can afford it, enjoy.
 
Superb post!

Extremely well said. Thanks Jax.

Interesting topic. This is common among audiophiles. People who don't swap much gear are offended or disgusted by those who do. There is frequently a condescension or outright contempt from the gear huggers toward the gear swappers. The funny thing is that the gear swappers are never contemptuous of the gear huggers.

Ive never understood this because to me, gear swapping IS the hobby. Sure sure music is also highly important but I consider music a separate hobby that is symbiotic with the gear swapping hobby. The gear huggers seem to thing that it's crazy to keep swapping gear when you just got it but that's because they do not understand the hobby. The hobby is an attempt to build the most synergistic gear that ticks every box and provides maximum enjoyment as you define it. My question for the gear huggers is, how the heck is that achieved if you stick with the first amp (or preamp or speakers or DAC or TT) you buy? I can guarantee you that if someone had just handed me a sack of money when I first got into this hobby and said go buy a high end system it would have been ok, but unlikely to have been great. A great system is only achieved by trying many different components to see which ones you like best and which ones compliment each other most. This cannot be achieved in a dealer show room either. It takes many hours with a component to understand it fully. And that cannot be done without the context of the rest of your system and your listening space.

So, all I'm saying is swap away. Buy and sell like crazy. It's fun and healthy. As long as one can afford it, enjoy.
 
I personally am interested in "value" gear, granted I swim in the shallow end of the audiophile pool my dual purpose setup cost me around $6,200 and doesn't include the price of a piece that was gifted to me (the ZPhono). I can't afford to go out and drop oh say that much on a single piece just yet in my life and audio journey, and yeah I'll admit to getting ears on Focal's Grande Utopia EM speakers powered by a rather impressive rack of Bryston gear in a proper room for the set up, they sounded too sterile to my ears. We all have our preferences for sure but some of us, are happy in the shallow end and can assemble something special by searching out killer deals, specific used pieces (stares at Bud and his fabulous Magico's).

I'll end my run on the soapbox before I get into trouble here lol.

I'm 58 yrs old, it's only been in the last few years that I have had the money to upgrade my system to where it is. I love "Value" as much as anyone, and you have a great system, maybe some day you can spend a little more, but if you can't, it won't matter, you will still love listening to music.
I still own what I consider one of the best values in speakers that I've ever heard,PSB Synchrony One's,and if they were still my main speakers I would be very happy.
I do agree that we should be talking more about value gear on our forum, so lets start !!
 
Interesting topic. This is common among audiophiles. People who don't swap much gear are offended or disgusted by those who do. There is frequently a condescension or outright contempt from the gear huggers toward the gear swappers. The funny thing is that the gear swappers are never contemptuous of the gear huggers.

Ive never understood this because to me, gear swapping IS the hobby. Sure sure music is also highly important but I consider music a separate hobby that is symbiotic with the gear swapping hobby. The gear huggers seem to thing that it's crazy to keep swapping gear when you just got it but that's because they do not understand the hobby. The hobby is an attempt to build the most synergistic gear that ticks every box and provides maximum enjoyment as you define it. My question for the gear huggers is, how the heck is that achieved if you stick with the first amp (or preamp or speakers or DAC or TT) you buy? I can guarantee you that if someone had just handed me a sack of money when I first got into this hobby and said go buy a high end system it would have been ok, but unlikely to have been great. A great system is only achieved by trying many different components to see which ones you like best and which ones compliment each other most. This cannot be achieved in a dealer show room either. It takes many hours with a component to understand it fully. And that cannot be done without the context of the rest of your system and your listening space.

So, all I'm saying is swap away. Buy and sell like crazy. It's fun and healthy. As long as one can afford it, enjoy.

Jax - GREAT post! I whole heartedly agree. I have an audiophile friend (who's local) who literally blows a gasket if I tell him I sold "X" and bought "Y". He built a system 10 or 15 years ago and literally didn't change it until recently when his financial situation changed. What I noticed at that point however, was that he literally bought the first thing he heard and was so hell bent not to buy anything "mainstream"....as if buying Wilson, Magico, Focal, Sonus Faber, Shunyata, Wireworld, etc. would be admitting the gear swappers were right all along. Instead he bought a pair of speakers that have been nothing but trouble since the day they arrived (and are now back with the company - if you can call it that - to be "fixed"....but of course, when I first said there was something wrong with these speakers and for him to get his money back, I was the bad guy....but now I'm the guy who was right.) But I digress....

The point is, that gear swapping can help one fully understand what sonic characteristics a particular piece of gear has in ones home. If John Atkinson states that "X" is the best he's ever heard - he is speaking about how it sounds in his system, in his room, with his cables and associated gear. That piece may sound better or worse in someone else's system, but will definitely sound different. Gear swapping also allows you to try something, live with it for a few months (or less or more) and know if its a fit for you or not. If not, it's easier to move on.

I have a friend who told me he had one bad experience selling a piece of gear and has pretty much just quit looking at other gear, reading about other gear, listening to other gear, because he doesn't want to deal with the hassle of selling. Selling gear is never easy or fun, but believe it or not, the more you do it, the easier it gets - but it is never "easy". But to just stop listening to other gear because of one bad experience? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water....

The one thing I've never got into was cable swapping. I know guys who go through cables like you can't believe. I'm the exact opposite. Probably because I never have a whole system long enough to synergize with a particular brand of cables! :)
 
Funny, I don't swap cables either. I tried quite a few years ago and found what I liked and have used the same cables ever since.

And I agree with your comments (naturally). As for selling, yeah, it's a pain, but I agree, you get good at it. I've had a couple of bad experiences, probably two bad experiences in dozens of transactions. One guy wanted to ship an expensive Krell amp back because I said I had the original manual and apparently it wasn't in the box as I thought. And would not accept a download or a copied version. I eventually went to Kinkos and made a brochure quality color booklet of the manual and sent it to him which satisfied him. It was nicer than any original manual I've ever seen, lol. But those bad experiences are few and far between and you learn from them. Now I never say I have the original manual even if I do.
 
it s a mix of the experiences of being at audioshark and getting to talk about all the new gear out there and the used gear that is still awesome and then getting to go and listen to alot of it. im lucky because im not too far from being able to find and listen to just about anything i want. im not blind walking into a store now. i am usually there to hear something specific. i feel much safer swapping gear now than in the past. i trust the users experiences much more than the reviewers experiences(aside from a few). the swapper in me is always looking for whats next. i dont spend a ton of money on gear. aside from my turntable i doubt id ever spend over $5k on any one piece of gear. and im always looking for the best value for my money. i went one direction last year with pre and amps and finally got the pieces i was wanting for a long time and wasnt happy with the results and went a different way this year and am much happier and actually cashed out a few dollars as well.
i agree with all that was said above, only way to find the right piece of gear is to have it in your system and listen for awhile and get a real feel for it. no matter who you are and what you know or think you know about stereo and how many measurements you look at , you will not be able to put together a good system by just thinking you know what goes together. gotta bring it home and put it through its paces with your other gear.
ive heard gear that was perfect for each other and all the numbers matched up to be a perfect setup. pre was perfect for the amps, amps were perfect for the speakers. cables were suggested by the manufacturers to be the best with their gear. and i listened and hated it. measurements and manufacturers recommendations do nothing for me.
but gear swappers rule!!!!
 
I still own what I consider one of the best values in speakers that I've ever heard,PSB Synchrony One's,and if they were still my main speakers I would be very happy.

I agree with that. I went from a pair of PSB Synchrony Ones to Aerial Acoustics 7T to the current Magico S5s. The similarities between the three are greater than are the differences. The PSBs are now my surround sound rears, with the Aerials in front, and a PSB Synchrony One center to complete it. This system definitely got some work during the time my Magico was out of commission.
 
:goodpost: Jax. Certainly no argument here when it comes to gear swapping, even though I am generally a hanger-on-era. If it weren't for the swappers telling the rest of us Audiosharks about honest real world experience, we could never risk buying blind as so many of us have to do in various parts of the world. Relying on vendor & reseller marketing tripe, or even reviewer commentary is often heavily biased.

As for those audiophile disciples who have submitted their faith & fortune into the cable upgrade train, please try to redeem yourself by at least giving your snakes 1,000 hours of burn time. Then see if you can last 2,000 hours before allowing the charmer to sell you into another upgrade cycle... If the cable was great to begin with, i.e. Metallurgy, geometry, material composition, termination, synergy then it should have shown the characteristics & potential within the first 72 hours of settling. If so, then it's do not disturb for 1,000 hours at least. If not, do not make excuses for the pseudo science BS.
 
Steve....any chance of you getting to hear the Allnic A-6000?
yes my shindo friend im heading to visit is also my allnic friend and got me started on this allnic journey. last time i was there he had the original version of the a5000. and he has since sold them for the 6000's and is thinking on the dht's now. but he has about 4 pairs of amps i need to hear and im only staying for 2 days. so im not sure how much time ill get with them. i pushed my trip back to september so i have more time. i will let you know when i come back what i think of them and the western elecs too.
 
yes my shindo friend im heading to visit is also my allnic friend and got me started on this allnic journey. last time i was there he had the original version of the a5000. and he has since sold them for the 6000's and is thinking on the dht's now. but he has about 4 pairs of amps i need to hear and im only staying for 2 days. so im not sure how much time ill get with them. i pushed my trip back to september so i have more time. i will let you know when i come back what i think of them and the western elecs too.

I look forward to your impressions of Shindo vs Allnic.
 
Jax - GREAT post! I whole heartedly agree. I have an audiophile friend (who's local) who literally blows a gasket if I tell him I sold "X" and bought "Y". He built a system 10 or 15 years ago and literally didn't change it until recently when his financial situation changed. What I noticed at that point however, was that he literally bought the first thing he heard and was so hell bent not to buy anything "mainstream"....as if buying Wilson, Magico, Focal, Sonus Faber, Shunyata, Wireworld, etc. would be admitting the gear swappers were right all along. Instead he bought a pair of speakers that have been nothing but trouble since the day they arrived (and are now back with the company - if you can call it that - to be "fixed"....but of course, when I first said there was something wrong with these speakers and for him to get his money back, I was the bad guy....but now I'm the guy who was right.) But I digress....

The point is, that gear swapping can help one fully understand what sonic characteristics a particular piece of gear has in ones home. If John Atkinson states that "X" is the best he's ever heard - he is speaking about how it sounds in his system, in his room, with his cables and associated gear. That piece may sound better or worse in someone else's system, but will definitely sound different. Gear swapping also allows you to try something, live with it for a few months (or less or more) and know if its a fit for you or not. If not, it's easier to move on.

I have a friend who told me he had one bad experience selling a piece of gear and has pretty much just quit looking at other gear, reading about other gear, listening to other gear, because he doesn't want to deal with the hassle of selling. Selling gear is never easy or fun, but believe it or not, the more you do it, the easier it gets - but it is never "easy". But to just stop listening to other gear because of one bad experience? Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water....

The one thing I've never got into was cable swapping. I know guys who go through cables like you can't believe. I'm the exact opposite. Probably because I never have a whole system long enough to synergize with a particular brand of cables! :)

Great Post Mike and Jax,

I guess that more or less after the last 5 years, of going through various cables - power cords - isolation devices/platforms - racks/stands and speaker stands as well as interfacing devices between the speakers and stands and finally from solid state ( wanna be tube types ) to actual tube integrated that match my speakers to a " T ", I'd be now seen as a gear hugger, as I've come to realize through said mistakes over the course of 32 odd years of system building and after 17 different systems, there were times when I went lateral at best, and never built upon the foundation of what I had replaced, in so much as a few pieces merely sounded " different " yet, not better then what tgey had replaced.

Yet, in the last 8 months, I've come to realize that my simply well matched/balanced little $17K system is clicking to my ears, and more often then not, much visitors have commented on the fact I shouldn't be looking to change a thing, unless I'm crazy, not knowing that I had come to the same conclusion months prior, and knew that what I had stumbled upon by living with said pieces long enough to understand their strengths and weaknesss, which requires months if not years to know exactly how to counter balance what's needed, with the power cabling loom or said isolation devices placed throughout ones entire system, and even more importantly, coming across those magical tube combinations that allow everything - and I mean everything to come together in such a matter, one has to know in their hearts when enough is enough!, there are times when merely changing out one component can/will have a adverse effect on the entire system, and throws it out of whack, and we then find ourselves going over and over in our minds - where/when did we lose the magic?.

At some point, if your system is clicking as I like to put it!, you have to ask yourself as what cost can it be bettered?, not different?, but better, and if so, at what cost?.

I enjoy reading about those of you whom own over $100.000.00 systems, and marvel, but I've always see/heard the other side of the coin as well, with friends here in Michigan with said systems, yet they weren't properly matched, and I've always found myself visiting these guys for all of 20 minutes, before finding a reason to leave, and get back home to what had proven to be a more synergistic whole approach to my system pairings, and happy that I didn't waste the money these guys had, I've always felt that if the speakers are chosen to drive/suit our rooms, then are properly driven, and matched to the cabling loom, and capable of playing any genre of music thrown at it, equally well, then I'd much rather spend the differences in funds saved on my music collection, which to my mind has always been my passion which then lead me to wanting a better system to begin with.


But at what point, I just ask any of you, when does one become content?, especially in the case where something isn't broken?. Yeah, I'm that sort that ask the hard, yet logical questions, but I've my entire life, so why change now?, are any of us really, really ever happy with our purchases long term, meaning 3 - 9 years, instead of months?. I wonder.
 
But at what point, I just ask any of you, when does one become content?, especially in the case where something isn't broken?. Yeah, I'm that sort that ask the hard, yet logical questions, but I've my entire life, so why change now?, are any of us really, really ever happy with our purchases long term, meaning 3 - 9 years, instead of months?. I wonder.

And there in lies the rub. The answer is "maybe never" especially if you're a "journey" more than a "destination" person.

It's not about being complacent (content) - it's about gaining different experiences. Just like my friend who hates gear swapping and thought nothing could touch his Oppo 83 CD player. Once we brought over an Esoteric - he wouldn't let it leave his house.


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Content is a relative term. I am very happy with my two channel system now, and while there may be changes in the future, there isn't anything in mind now. I am just enjoying the music.

However, now I am upgrading the HT/surround sound/spare stereo system. I just added my two previous amps to it to drive the fronts, and that required buying a two shelf Mapleshade Samson rack to sit next to the 5 shelf rack. Next is upgrading the speaker cables, which will most likely be Shunyata Zitron Cobra all around. I just added a Shunyata Anaconda AES digital cable between the Bryston BDP1 and BDA2.

I guess by the time that is tweaked, it will be time to start again on the stereo. :)
 
And there in lies the rub. The answer is "maybe never" especially if you're a "journey" more than a "destination" person.

It's not about being complacent (content) - it's about gaining different experiences. Just like my friend who hates gear swapping and thought nothing could touch his Oppo 83 CD player. Once we brought over an Esoteric - he wouldn't let it leave his house.


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A friend of mine experienced this recently. He loves music but has always been a bit perplexed by his friends' (including me) enthusiasm for experiencing different gear. He has Aeriel 7Ts with a DVD player and home theater pre/pro as components. While he could always afford more, he figured that as long as the speakers are top notch, the upstream components don't matter as much. After a recent visit to my listening room, he changed his perspective. Now he is budgeting for a dedicated CD player and preamp and just bought some GIK Acoustics room treatments. I don't know if he wants to thank me or curse me now.:)
 
And there in lies the rub. The answer is "maybe never" especially if you're a "journey" more than a "destination" person.

It's not about being complacent (content) - it's about gaining different experiences. Just like my friend who hates gear swapping and thought nothing could touch his Oppo 83 CD player. Once we brought over an Esoteric - he wouldn't let it leave his house.


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Very honest response Mike,

And one that I can respect, and how true is the statement about " journey " as opposed to being a " desination " person!, that's one of my key reasons for loving your site, you've a bunch of passionate music lovers from all walls of life, yet can take the time of day, to assist others in finding their way or their truth along the way.

I haven't felt the desire to write anything in the last 19 months, but it seems so natural to want to do so here, and I do thank you for waiking me through the importance of factors like AC Outlets ( MIT ) and the Entech, which surprises me, just how dirty mains can be.

Lesson learnt, never assume we are hearing things as purely as we've thought, noise resides in all communities regardless of cost.
 
You're very welcome and thanks for being a part of AS! We can all learn from one another,


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