Mis-matched subs

Randy Myers

Randy Myers

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Seeking opinions. I have a small REL sub hooked up in my 2-channel system. I just want to get a little extra bass help. I am not a bass head, and certainly have no desire for any kind of boom at all. I look for clean clear sound, tight bass if you will. In the old days I was never a fan of sub-woofers because I felt they always added more boom then clarity.

Anyway the little REL is tight and adds a little bass, however I also have a Klipsch sub in my storage room. It is from the Home Theater system hooked to the TV. I have no place that it fits or works with the built in wall unit housing the surround system. I am also not a huge surround buff and am just as happy with 2-channel for the TV :).

The Klipsch has about the same amount of power as the REL, a slightly larger driver (not much) and a bigger box. So my question is this, in your opinion would I be better to use just the REL or would it be worth hooking the un-matched subs up in my system, the REL on one side and the Klipsch on the other? Keep in mind the MC speakers do a pretty decent job on their own so the sub is just to add a little low end fill.

I know the immediate answer is going to be to purchase a higher end sub, but that is just not possible right now. So what do you think about using mis-matched sub-woofers.
 
I sure would give it a try since you already have it. It's not ideal but you just never know until you try it and listen.
 
Randy

I would try it at it's lowest crossover setting and then if it is ported see what it sounds like if you stuff the port. It just might work out for the time being and you won't know if you don't try. When you go to set them both up try using acoustic bass jazz like Ray Brown's Soular Energy.
 
The Klipsch crossover goes from 80-160, is 100 watt, 8 inch ported. The REL crossover goes from 30-120, is 100 watt, 6.5 inch and not ported. So I set the Klipsch to 80 and stuffed the port (great idea) to smooth the boom out. I set the REL to mid point, so about 75. The REL's gain has to be set much higher since the Klipsch takes off like gang busters... not a bad start... oh I positioned each just outside of both speakers... at their stand base.
 
great stuff. One thing to note, if the magic smoke makes an appearance, be sure to check what the colour is... :D
 
Randy.......Having been an observer to the inauguration of your two channel system and watched and read about it's expansion and changes I think it is accurate to say you will ultimately be unhappy with a mismatched subwoofer arrangement. Again, my observations have lead me to believe you tend to be detail oriented. This leads me to believe the mismatch will eventually bug you, perhaps not from a performance standpoint as much as from an aesthetic one.

My second thought about your post is not all subwoofers are boomy, nor do you have to be a bass-head to appreciate a properly integrated bottom octave in your system. As clean as the Music Culture RL21's sound, the 6.5" midrange/woofer does not reach the frequency depths a good subwoofer does in stride. Even though the RL21's midrange woofer's claimed range is 29Hz, it is substantially rolled off at that point. What's even more important is the inter-modulation distortion generated in the midrange as the driver attempts to reproduce the lowest frequency range that exceeds its capabilities.

I had a similar experience with the Sonus faber Guarneri Memento speakers that I had in my studio system. On their own they sounded very good, even down into the mid 45Hz territory where they began to roll off quickly below that range. When I added a pair of powered McIntosh XLS112 subwoofers and a Bryston 10B active crossover the performance difference was night and day. By allowing the Bryston crossover to route everything below 70Hz to the subwoofers, thus relieving the Guarneri Memento's of having to deal with the lowest octave, the midrange performance and dynamic range of the GM's improved substantially, with the added benefit of now having a full range performance that included rich deep bass. The advantage of this arrangement proved to be a genuine step up in the system's sound across the board. You can read more about my experience here: Bryston 10B Active Crossover In Studio System

I said that to make this suggestion. JL Audio has recently introduce a new E-Series of subwoofers. They are reasonably priced and remarkably sophisticated in the different ways they can be incorporated into a system. I have a friend who uses a single JL Audio E112 subwoofer with two way JBL speakers. The E112 allows the low frequency crossover point to send only the frequency range above that point to the power amplifier driving the speakers. In other words, no external crossover is necessary to keep the low frequencies at the subwoofer and everything above the crossover point routed to the left and right channel speakers. This capability can be used with a single subwoofer or a stereo pair. This arrangement would be perfect for your system. The improved midrange performance of the RL20's will astonish you, not to mention the additional dynamic range available from your power amplifier because it no longer has to reproduce the lowest octave, and the E112 subwoofer will reproduce the lowest octave with the clarity and speed you seek.

Yes, I heard you when you said you didn't want to consider a new purchase. I'm just planting a seed for you to think about. The E-Series JL Audio subwoofers are reasonably priced and are serious performers, and that includes their E110, too.
 
Thanks Dan... I appreciate the input and am fairly certain I will eventually go in that direction. Yes you can tell I am detail oriented and the cosmetic element of the mis-match will probably drive me crazy. However, at this point, since it was taking up space in storage... why not give it a go :).
 
Ok Dan, so looking at the JL Audio's (for down the road)... it looks like the output from the pre-amplifier goes to the sub-woofer and then the output from the sub-woofer goes to the amplifier. Too bad it does not utilize XLR balanced :)....

The reasoning makes a ton of sense.... are there other companies that use this type of configuration?

I am sure at this point any purchases are being put on hold. My wife is talking about maybe selling our house and moving, maybe to Florida even. My sister and brother both have homes in the same complex in Ocala. She is starting to get concerned about our ability to comfortably retire here in California, which we would be able to do in Florida :(....
 
The fact that there is no state or locality income tax plus the lower general property and insurance costs would sure make it easier in addition to having family around. Ocala is a nice town plus kind of gets you close to the middle of the state for travel in any direction. Just don't move to close to Mike or you would probably stay in the dog house.
 
Randy Myers said:
Ok Dan, so looking at the JL Audio's (for down the road)... it looks like the output from the pre-amplifier goes to the sub-woofer and then the output from the sub-woofer goes to the amplifier. Too bad it does not utilize XLR balanced :)....

The reasoning makes a ton of sense.... are there other companies that use this type of configuration?

I am sure at this point any purchases are being put on hold. My wife is talking about maybe selling our house and moving, maybe to Florida even. My sister and brother both have homes in the same complex in Ocala. She is starting to get concerned about our ability to comfortably retire here in California, which we would be able to do in Florida :(....
Click to expand...

Randy.......I wouldn't let the unbalance connections to the E-Series subwoofers concern you. There are plenty of audio engineers and manufacturers who will argue that unbalanced connections sound better than balanced connections.

I am fairly certain you should be able to find other subwoofer manufacturers who provide similar connection schemes as the JL Audio E-Series. Of course you can always put a Bryston 10B Sub active crossover into your system for even greater control and balanced or unbalanced connections. You order the connections you want and it get's built that way. Mine had the balanced connectors.

Retiring to Florida from California is a good idea. I lived in San Francisco for years, then Portland, Oregon for years before ultimately moving back to my home state of Florida. I am not a beach person so living along the coast was not in my plans. I bought property and built my home in rural north central Florida. I have no regrets. You would like Ocala. It is a beautiful area of Florida, rolling hills, horse country with many beautiful horse ranches dotting the area. It is only 40 miles south of Gainesville, Florida where there is a great deal of culture, art, and music that surrounds the University of Florida. Ocala is only 90 miles from my home and about 110 miles from Mike's home. No state income tax is a big advantage of living in Florida, and I am certain Florida's 7% sales tax beats California's sales tax rate. Great year round weather, too. Central Florida is a great place to live.
 
Thanks for the input guys.... Florida is definitely sounding like it may be the winner. It is going to be a process of course...
 
Now you are getting me worried :)

Well Cheryal started telling the kids (grown kids) tonight that we are going to be moving to Florida... it has gotten very real very quick... :D... so I guess it begins...
 
Randy,
My $0.02...Not only do unmatched subs not harm things, I think they are an advantage. I would agree to stuffing ports as I'm not a fan of ported subs, but if you read Geddes, et al on the Swarm concept you'll see that mismatched gain, damping, level, and crossover frequency can be used fairly simply to smooth bass modes below 200 Hz (which will nearly always be an issue in normal-sized rooms regardless of matched or mismatched subs).

AC
 
Oh, cool... well I believe we have decided... but now comes the fun times of selling and arranging for our new house to be built. So honest opinion... Is Ocala the very nice community that my sister and my brother are telling us?
 
Hey Dan, Thanks for the excellent links! I think we will be very happy there.... I will be happy when we get settled.... I hate this part of it all, although putting together what we want in the house is always a fun thing :)...
 
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