Measuring AC Power Line Noise
- Thread starter Jim Smith
- Start date
Speedskater
Member
a] I don't know anything about Ansuz.
b] Power issues are best dealt with by good hi-fi component design.
c] UPS and regen units often bring a new set of problems with them.
d] Power conditioner is an undefined label, each marketing department is free to set its own terms.
e] Most hi-fi systems don't need any power conditioning.
b] Power issues are best dealt with by good hi-fi component design.
c] UPS and regen units often bring a new set of problems with them.
d] Power conditioner is an undefined label, each marketing department is free to set its own terms.
e] Most hi-fi systems don't need any power conditioning.
I know I am a little late to reply on anything, but recently I got myself a power conditioner, which was tested with the Entech Line Meter and the results were good. However, an audiophile friend of mine told me that all detecting devices are useless. So he took out his Alpha Lab Line EMI meter and showed me that my power conditioner doesn't do ANYTHING to minimise noise as the Alpha Lab shows almost no difference in reading.
Is he right? He then go ahead and told me that with his power conditioner, he tested with Alpha Lab and the drop is so significant ( to say that his power conditioner works and mine is just snake oil ).
Is he right? He then go ahead and told me that with his power conditioner, he tested with Alpha Lab and the drop is so significant ( to say that his power conditioner works and mine is just snake oil ).
None of them is a professional tool and a complete meter. They work in a different bandwitch (one may show more of the low freq noise and the other more of the ultrasonic noise) so their results may differ. It is best to use both to get the most complete reading.
jadedavid
New member
The Entech line tester is a very basic unit and fairly non specific.
It has both audible and visual references to allow you to both hear/see any changes.
As you have indicated, your power conditioner did reduce noise when tested by the Entech.
So, it is doing something. Just not sure what and to what degree. A lab quality meter or a scope can show some more detail on what is happening on your line.
You stated that your friends meter was for EMI. Anything else?
There are many variables that affect the quality of the AC produced.
Many manufacturers attack the problem in different ways and with varying degrees of success.
Did your power conditioner help the sound of your system? That's the bottom line.
There is always something better, but what do you really need?
It has both audible and visual references to allow you to both hear/see any changes.
As you have indicated, your power conditioner did reduce noise when tested by the Entech.
So, it is doing something. Just not sure what and to what degree. A lab quality meter or a scope can show some more detail on what is happening on your line.
You stated that your friends meter was for EMI. Anything else?
There are many variables that affect the quality of the AC produced.
Many manufacturers attack the problem in different ways and with varying degrees of success.
Did your power conditioner help the sound of your system? That's the bottom line.
There is always something better, but what do you really need?
Hi Jadedavid,
He was the Alpha Power Line Meter. I am sort of a newbie so not exactly great at the technical sector. He is proud of his meter and since his power conditioner pass the test with his meter, his conditioner according to him, is doing the job, whilst mine....is just a snake oil/fake/overpriced power extender.
Got a bit upset on this actually, knowing that I've wasted money and perhaps the Entech meter is just for fun and does not help.
Restricted in bandwidth? I thought it has a broader range of bandwidth vs the Entech? Since the Entech covers 300 to 700khz whilst the Alpha covers like from 10khz to 10Mhz. Isn't that a way broader range than the Entech?
Does it work in different bandwidth?
The Entech covers 300 to 700khz
The Alpha covers 10Khz to 10Mhz.
Kingrex
Active member
Fluke 199 scope meter and also a Power Logic Ion 7650. You need both. Find them used on ebay. The 7650 goes to 2,5 Ghz. That is well beyond and Mhz range.
As I said on other thread, what are you going to do with the info. The Ion will tell you just how much noise you have, but its not going to tell you how to fix it.
My friends at Schneider Electric use these 2 tools to diagnose noise from industrial Freq Drives and other noisy equipment. They then build filters to bock the noise from polluting the surrounding facility. They are very accurate tools.
As I said on other thread, what are you going to do with the info. The Ion will tell you just how much noise you have, but its not going to tell you how to fix it.
My friends at Schneider Electric use these 2 tools to diagnose noise from industrial Freq Drives and other noisy equipment. They then build filters to bock the noise from polluting the surrounding facility. They are very accurate tools.
I recall Caelin Gabriel (Shunyata) said the narrower band the Entech measures is more appropriate to the noise which effects actual audio sound quality. It picks up AM radio loud and clear at our place.
Interestingly, we can sometimes hear radio broadcasts late at night without any receiving device other than our ears/brain. It sounds bizarre, but it's pretty common.
Interestingly, we can sometimes hear radio broadcasts late at night without any receiving device other than our ears/brain. It sounds bizarre, but it's pretty common.
Is AM the only noise an audio system is concerned with? I am not an expert so I am not asking this sarcastically in case anyone wonders. I am asking it sincerely. In fact, noises and power conditioners are matter that I just heard about recently and got interested in because of my audiophile friend. So it suddenly got me into it.
Yes Carlin did mentioned something like that but I am getting a little confused of his position. Let me demonstrate. In page 1 of this forum he said :
"
The Enteq only detects and rectifies frequencies to around 700KHz which means is it completely insensitive to some of the most harmful noise frequencies - those in the 1MHz to 10MHz ranges. But hey it is inexpensive, easy to use and it is nice to be able to "hear" some of the stuff that is on your power line. Your dedicated power lines, rhodium plated outlets and large gauge wires in the wall in no way immunize you to power line noise "
What does he mean by some of the most harmful noise? Harmful to health? Harmful to an AV system output?
And then he quoted this as well then, on page 4 :
"
Some frequency bands are more important to the performance of audio equipment specifically our research indicates the the most harmful frequencies are in the 100 kHz to around 1 MHz bands and then secondarily from 1 MHz to 10 MHz. Interestingly, I believe that the Entech engineers knew this and designed their device to be sensitive in the frequencies from 300 kHz to 700 kHz range. "
Without a definition of what is " some of the most harmful " ( harmful to what ) in page 1 of his post and then following up with a second post which claims Entech can also help to detect " the most harmful … ( as for the performance of Audio equipment ). Without definition from himself about what he meant by each " harmful " word he mentioned, it would seemed like he contradicted himself.
Perhaps he's still around to enlighten me on this? Would appreciate it.
Without a definition of what is " some of the most harmful " ( harmful to what ) in page 1 of his post and then following up with a second post which claims Entech can also help to detect " the most harmful … ( as for the performance of Audio equipment ). Without definition from himself about what he meant by each " harmful " word he mentioned, it would seemed like he contradicted himself.
Perhaps he's still around to enlighten me on this? Would appreciate it.
What I am aiming for is to be able to tweak and make my audio free of the noise that affects sound quality ( within the range of frequencies I am able to hear as a human ). I may not be able to do much, but with that info, it may tell me which power conditioner I should not waste money on. You see, without having this information, I will go ahead and buy every snake oil story from power conditioner manufacturers/sellers. They will test it with eg. the Entech meter and tell me see, how much it helps you to silence it out. And then you go, wow. Let's get this. Then someone ( like my friend for example that tells me, it's useless cause the Alpha MEASURES " 0 " difference in the noises filtered from that power conditioner and suddenly you felt conned.
But doesn't a " wider bandwidth " meant, it covers the bandwidth of the Entech as well? Meaning to say, what the Entech misses, the Alpha is capable of picking up?
In reference to?