Lyra Kleos versus Delos

I was lucky enough to pick up a used Lyra Erodion SUT that should be tried with either of these cartridges. Designed for Lyra's low impedance cartridges, it's phenomenal with the Etna. It really brings home the goods! The Erodion steps the cartridge up 26db and it mates perfectly with the mm phono input of the Shindo preamp which has 40db of gain.

It's dead silent and extremely resolving. It weighs almost six pounds... Much heftier than I would have thought. And gorgeous in person!

attachment.php
attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Unknown.jpeg
    Unknown.jpeg
    6.1 KB · Views: 99
  • images.jpeg
    images.jpeg
    4.8 KB · Views: 98
Hi Mark, Using a Lehmann Silver Cube Reference. It has adjustable gain 36 db for MM. 56 and 66 db for MC. It uses transistors for the MM gain and opamps for the additional MC gain. I find it sounds best without the opamps engaged but then I have to use a MM cart. It still sounds very good with the opamps but I feel it would sound better if it was an all discrete design. Unfortunately an all discrete design would likely be more noisy and/or expensive. That said I still really like this phono stage and for the price I don't think it can be beat. It is also very quiet.

I had plenty of gain for the Kleos SL in the 66 db gain position. The sound quality is slightly worse at 66 db as opposed to 56 db. One more opamp in the signal path.
 
audioarcher said:
Hi Mark, Using a Lehmann Silver Cube Reference. It has adjustable gain 36 db for MM. 56 and 66 db for MC. It uses transistors for the MM gain and opamps for the additional MC gain. I find it sounds best without the opamps engaged but then I have to use a MM cart. It still sounds very good with the opamps but I feel it would sound better if it was an all discrete design. Unfortunately an all discrete design would likely be more noisy and/or expensive. That said I still really like this phono stage and for the price I don't think it can be beat. It is also very quiet.

I had plenty of gain for the Kleos SL in the 66 db gain position. The sound quality is slightly worse at 66 db as opposed to 56 db. One more opamp in the signal path.
Click to expand...

That and your maximum gain setting may explain your feelings towards the Kleos. I think it's hard to have too much gain for a LOMC cartridge unless the gain is noisy. Maybe I can interest you in my Krell KPE Reference phono stage with outboard power supply. It has gain selectable from 58dB to 76dB in 6dB increments and it's quiet.
 
mep said:
That and your maximum gain setting may explain your feelings towards the Kleos. I think it's hard to have too much gain for a LOMC cartridge unless the gain is noisy. Maybe I can interest you in my Krell KPE Reference phono stage with outboard power supply. It has gain selectable from 58dB to 76dB in 6dB increments and it's quiet.
Click to expand...

Could be. Did not get to hear it with other phono stages. The phono stage is a big factor in which cartridge sounds best in any particular system.
 
mep said:
What linestage and how much gain?
Click to expand...

I use the Innersound linestage built into the crossover/bass amp for my speakers. It is capable of 10 db extra gain. I have used an additional linestage into it before but it always resulted in less transparent sound. Gain is not an issue.
 
I'm using the kleos loaded at 47k. VTF is 1.78 grams. The difference between 1.72-1.78 g was just a bit more definition in the bass. Gain is around 54 db. Good luck
 
dan31 said:
I'm using the kleos loaded at 47k. VTF is 1.78 grams. The difference between 1.72-1.78 g was just a bit more definition in the bass. Gain is around 54 db. Good luck
Click to expand...

Sounds about right to me. The Kleos SL has half the output of the regular Kleos. SL stands for single layer of coils. Which puts it around .25 mv of output instead of .5 mv for the regular version. Have not heard the regular version yet.
 
Harris4crna said:
Thank you. I'll try 500ohms and let you know. The tracking force is 1.75, but the shop set it at 2.2 g. I compromised at 2.0g where it sounded fuller than the recommended 1.75. What's your experience?
Click to expand...

Myles is spot on re vtf. Must be tracked at around the Lyra recommended tracked tracking give or take 0.1 gm

What I meant try several loading above 100 up to 500ohms. These are also more within the Lyra recommendation with low/standard capacitance tonearm cable.

IMS the Delos sounds best on 320ohms, Kleos 500ohms and Atlas 500ohms.

Cheers, have fun and let is know what sounds best in your system.
 
XV-1 said:
Myles is spot on re vtf. Must be tracked at around the Lyra recommended tracked tracking give or take 0.1 gm

What I meant try several loading above 100 up to 500ohms. These are also more within the Lyra recommendation with low/standard capacitance tonearm cable.

IMS the Delos sounds best on 320ohms, Kleos 500ohms and Atlas 500ohms.

Cheers, have fun.
Click to expand...

Shane do you find the same loading recommendations on the PASS and TW Akustic phono stages?
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Shane do you find the same loading recommendations on the PASS and TW Akustic phono stages?
Click to expand...

Hi Myles

With the Kleos and Atlas - yes. The TW goes from 220ohms to 500 ohms. Above that I have no further benefits with upper frequency extension/air but the bass loses a bit of control vs 500ohns.

With the Delos, Pass 320ohms and TW 220ohms.

The Lyra's seem to be consistent with loading whereas with some of my other carts, like the Dl-S1 the tube phono is consistently loaded a bit higher than the Pass.

I guess you prefer the Atlas loaded down, which seems a bit different to Lyra recommendations. The transformer input of the Doshi perhaps makes loading slightly different?

Cheers
 
XV-1 said:
Hi Myles

With the Kleos and Atlas - yes. The TW goes from 220ohms to 500 ohms. Above that I have no further benefits with upper frequency extension/air but the bass loses a bit of control vs 500ohns.

With the Delos, Pass 320ohms and TW 220ohms.

The Lyra's seem to be consistent with loading whereas with some of my other carts, like the Dl-S1 the tube phono is consistently loaded a bit higher than the Pass.

I guess you prefer the Atlas loaded down, which seems a bit different to Lyra recommendations. The transformer input of the Doshi perhaps makes loading slightly different?

Cheers
Click to expand...

No the Doshi uses a JFET input not that different from Curl did. No transformers involved.

Thing is once you get above 10X internal impedance, certainly at 100X, the cartridge is for all intents and purposes unloaded.
 
Myles B. Astor said:
No the Doshi uses a JFET input not that different from Curl did. No transformers involved.

Thing is once you get above 10X internal impedance, certainly at 100X, the cartridge is for all intents and purposes unloaded.
Click to expand...

Ah, misread your review. Thought is was like the K&K audio phono with fet and SUT in the gain stage to help the tube gain.

.Nick opted for a JFET input a la John Curl and a custom designed interstage coupling transformer (made by Brian Sowter (UK) wound with PCOCC wire) to convert from balanced to single-ended operation.
Click to expand...
 
Thanks for all the replies. The salesman dialed it in at 2.2g and stated the suspension can handle it. I dialed back to 2.0g and sounds great. As suggested i changed to 420ohms (500ohms is not an option). Wow, bass has arrived. I may try to change the tracking weight to the suggested 1.75g now and see if it makes a difference. Just curious, having it at 2.0 cause any damage to the suspension over time? Im looking to the experts on this one, thank you.
 
Harris4crna said:
Thanks for all the replies. The salesman dialed it in at 2.2g and stated the suspension can handle it. I dialed back to 2.0g and sounds great. As suggested i changed to 420ohms (500ohms is not an option). Wow, bass has arrived. I may try to change the tracking weight to the suggested 1.75g now and see if it makes a difference. Just curious, having it at 2.0 cause any damage to the suspension over time? Im looking to the experts on this one, thank you.
Click to expand...

Excellent. I was pretty sure loading it higher was going to improve things quite a bit.

2 gms is outside of the cartridges tracking force specs and Lyra spend a lot of time fine tuning that - you will notice in the manual that they have an exact recommendation of tracking force. You will see the Lyra is a pretty low rider anyway, so in time it may be an issue.

I would definately change it back to within the recommended settings.

btw, your dealer sounds almost incompetent.
 
XV-1 said:
Excellent. I was pretty sure loading it higher was going to improve things quite a bit.

2 gms is outside of the cartridges tracking force specs and Lyra spend a lot of time fine tuning that - you will notice in the manual that they have an exact recommendation of tracking force. You will see the Lyra is a pretty low rider anyway, so in time it may be an issue.

I would definately change it back to within the recommended settings.

btw, your dealer sounds almost incompetent.
Click to expand...


Agreed, but I think it passes "almost."
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top