Luxman M900u Monos and C900u

Go to audiogon forms and look up the poster whiteCamaros. He has done extensive testing with the Luxman's. I know nothing about them and I'm not picking any sort of fight, but his take was the preamp and amp together can get a little dark. He has other preamps he's tested with it and find some to match with excellent results. To find the specific postings on the m900u can take a while. I think there are about 30 pages to sort through to find the actual threads.
 
By the way, there is a Paramount version of my First Sound preamp on audiogone. That is an amazing preamp. The only issue with First Sound is they do not have a remote control. Outside of that it is probably one of the best sounding preamps ever made. I bet it would pair ridiculously well with a luxman. I am looking to purchase the m600a. I just don't have the money to go for the new U series.
Dump the stock tubes in the First Sound, go to upscale audio and get the telefunkin e88cc's. You will have the most glorious sound you could ever imagine. Incredible clean clear tone with substantial girth and weight. It slaughtered the Macintosh, Airtight or Rogue preamps I had at the time. The only thing I had that was close to as clear was a passive stepped attenuator. The First Sound is darn close to as clear but has so much more body and musicality it's a no-brainer.
 
I did. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Mike & other Sharks....
Please correct me if I am wrong...
It is my understanding that you have to be careful bridging amps...
When you bridge amps...you you double the output impedance to the speakers...in doing so you may cause a mismatch..
eg...if the amp struggles at 2 ohms or lower dips in speakers ...then you bridge it...it will then struggle at 4 ohms or lower...
Look forward to wiser heads than me for clarification...
Thanks...
 
Mike & other Sharks....
Please correct me if I am wrong...
It is my understanding that you have to be careful bridging amps...
When you bridge amps...you you double the output impedance to the speakers...in doing so you may cause a mismatch..
eg...if the amp struggles at 2 ohms or lower dips in speakers ...then you bridge it...it will then struggle at 4 ohms or lower...
Look forward to wiser heads than me for clarification...
Thanks...
When you bridge an amp it effectively sees the speaker's load impedance as half of what it is, and accordingly demands twice the current draw. So for example when driving a 4 ohm speaker with a bridged amp, the amp sees it as a 2 ohm load and has to deliver twice the current as it would with a 4 ohm speaker being driven in stereo mode. This results in many amps performing at a lower level when operating in bridged mode, but you do gain a significant amount of power and headroom so there are typically trade-offs. A lot depends on how well the amp's power supply is built, and whether the amp is truly optimized for bridged operation or if it's just implemented as a selling feature without regard to potential compromises. Luxman for example puts a lot of thought into their design and flexibility to run in bridged mode without compromise of sonic quality, but it still cannot drive as low an impedance load in bridged mode as it can in stereo mode. Hope this helps!
 
Go to audiogon forms and look up the poster whiteCamaros. He has done extensive testing with the Luxman's. I know nothing about them and I'm not picking any sort of fight, but his take was the preamp and amp together can get a little dark.

Not sure where you came up with this one. I communicate with Jay on a regular basis and the Luxman Combo is in his Top 2 or 3. I don't believe he EVER said it was DARK at all on that thread or anywhere else. Think your memory is faulty on this one. Feel free to post a quote from Audiogon and that thread that backs up your remarks.
 
Not sure where you came up with this one. I communicate with Jay on a regular basis and the Luxman Combo is in his Top 2 or 3. I don't believe he EVER said it was DARK at all on that thread or anywhere else. Think your memory is faulty on this one. Feel free to post a quote from Audiogon and that thread that backs up your remarks.

I apologize if I remembered incorrectly. I know he had done a lot of listening and thought the amps were amazing.. Maybe I confuse some of his results with the stereophile review or other publication. My apologies again. I myself was looking hard for white Camaros reviews about a week ago when talking with somebody about an m600 a for myself. I was having a hard time finding it. I actually never did. I have read about these amps in as many places as possible as I'm pretty interested in them.
 
When you bridge an amp it effectively sees the speaker's load impedance as half of what it is, and accordingly demands twice the current draw. So for example when driving a 4 ohm speaker with a bridged amp, the amp sees it as a 2 ohm load and has to deliver twice the current as it would with a 4 ohm speaker being driven in stereo mode. This results in many amps performing at a lower level when operating in bridged mode, but you do gain a significant amount of power and headroom so there are typically trade-offs. A lot depends on how well the amp's power supply is built, and whether the amp is truly optimized for bridged operation or if it's just implemented as a selling feature without regard to potential compromises. Luxman for example puts a lot of thought into their design and flexibility to run in bridged mode without compromise of sonic quality, but it still cannot drive as low an impedance load in bridged mode as it can in stereo mode. Hope this helps!

I am not a "techie" but understand what you have written...I am not sure what the net benefit is...of bridging 2 x stereo amps...why not just use mono's...
The RMS output is roughly quadrupled...but what is the current increase...my understanding is they are not the same...
Lets use a practical example...I own an Esoteric A03...like the Luxman designed to be bridged...output is 50 RMS all class A (specs here http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/a03/indexe.html)....
You will note its design is such that does not like a speaker impedance much below 4 ohm...if I bridge the amp would it then not like impedance much below 8 ohm...
If that is the case I do not see any net benefit by bridging the amp as most speakers - including those I own operate between 8 & 3 ohms...
Really appreciate your response by the way...thank you...
 
I am not a "techie" but understand what you have written...I am not sure what the net benefit is...of bridging 2 x stereo amps...why not just use mono's...
The RMS output is roughly quadrupled...but what is the current increase...my understanding is they are not the same...
Lets use a practical example...I own an Esoteric A03...like the Luxman designed to be bridged...output is 50 RMS all class A (specs here http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/a03/indexe.html)....
You will note its design is such that does not like a speaker impedance much below 4 ohm...if I bridge the amp would it then not like impedance much below 8 ohm...
If that is the case I do not see any net benefit by bridging the amp as most speakers - including those I own operate between 8 & 3 ohms...
Really appreciate your response by the way...thank you...

I find this conversation interesting. I hadn't thought of how the amplifier sees a load when you start bridging. It does make you question whether it's something to do.
 
I am not a "techie" but understand what you have written...I am not sure what the net benefit is...of bridging 2 x stereo amps...why not just use mono's...
The RMS output is roughly quadrupled...but what is the current increase...my understanding is they are not the same...
Lets use a practical example...I own an Esoteric A03...like the Luxman designed to be bridged...output is 50 RMS all class A (specs here http://www.esoteric.jp/products/esoteric/a03/indexe.html)....
You will note its design is such that does not like a speaker impedance much below 4 ohm...if I bridge the amp would it then not like impedance much below 8 ohm...
If that is the case I do not see any net benefit by bridging the amp as most speakers - including those I own operate between 8 & 3 ohms...
Really appreciate your response by the way...thank you...
Like I previously stated there are trade-offs involved, and ultimately power limitations have to do with power supply design/regulation as well as current capacity of the output devices. As you pointed out with the Esoteric amp running in bridged mode you get 4 times the power output compared to stereo mode, but it isn't rated to handle that into a load below 8 ohms since then maximum current will be the limiting factor. You are clearly more limited in speaker choices when running a bridged amp, but some amps like Luxman and Accuphase can still handle an impedance of 4 ohms or even lower when bridged. Alternately you can design a non-bridged amplifier which will have different capacities, likely not as much power but with more current headroom to handle the requirements (additional current draw) of lower impedance speakers. There is not one way which is universally best, it comes down to specific system matching to optimize an amplifier's ability to most effectively drive a particular speaker. You can't always predict it by the specs either although they can provide some insight into potential mismatches. Some don't care for the sound of bridged amplifier designs, but I've found that it really depends on the specific implementation of a particular design and proper load matching.
 
Like I previously stated there are trade-offs involved, and ultimately power limitations have to do with power supply design/regulation as well as current capacity of the output devices. As you pointed out with the Esoteric amp running in bridged mode you get 4 times the power output compared to stereo mode, but it isn't rated to handle that into a load below 8 ohms since then maximum current will be the limiting factor. You are clearly more limited in speaker choices when running a bridged amp, but some amps like Luxman and Accuphase can still handle an impedance of 4 ohms or even lower when bridged. Alternately you can design a non-bridged amplifier which will have different capacities, likely not as much power but with more current headroom to handle the requirements (additional current draw) of lower impedance speakers. There is not one way which is universally best, it comes down to specific system matching to optimize an amplifier's ability to most effectively drive a particular speaker. You can't always predict it by the specs either although they can provide some insight into potential mismatches. Some don't care for the sound of bridged amplifier designs, but I've found that it really depends on the specific implementation of a particular design and proper load matching.

Thanks for your response...a great learning curve for me...
Would you please provide a couple of examples of quality amps with high headroom or current...
What do you look for in the specs...
 
Thanks for your response...a great learning curve for me...
Would you please provide a couple of examples of quality amps with high headroom or current...
What do you look for in the specs...
High current capacity can be indicated by amps that "double down", which means doubling their output power each time the load impedance is halved as you go down into 4, 2, or even 1 ohm loads. There are quite a few that double into 4 ohms, but fewer that can do it again into 2 or 1 ohms. If you're looking at higher power amps then the max power into really low impedances (like 2 or 1 ohm loads) can limit out due to available power of the incoming AC which may be either a 15A or 20A circuit. Amps like most Luxman and Accuphase are rated down to 1 ohms (in unbridged mode) but they get pretty expensive, and not all speakers require such power reserves and low impedance drive capacities so they can be considered overkill. Any amp is going to sound better when running well within its power ratings and not near its rated capacity. Another thing to keep in mind is that we're talking about solid state amps without output transformers here. Tube amps generally use output transformers (other than OTLs) and some solid state amps do as well like McIntosh, which will not increase power output into lower impedance loads.
 
Thanks audio bill; amp arrived today. Evidently, need a forklift here... I'm ordering a Rowland Capri 2 as the temporary pre amp. We'll see how this works.. Yep, the goal is migrating to the 900u combo. The Bel Canto EX DAC is another very strong contender since it has the DAC (better than the PSA DS II) and the streamer/Arender feature. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
 
Thanks audio bill; amp arrived today. Evidently, need a forklift here... I'm ordering a Rowland Capri 2 as the temporary pre amp. We'll see how this works.. Yep, the goal is migrating to the 900u combo. The Bel Canto EX DAC is another very strong contender since it has the DAC (better than the PSA DS II) and the streamer/Arender feature. Anyway, thanks for your comments.
I'm a pretty big guy but getting older and can relate regarding the weight of the M-900u... I had to use a dolly to move the amp which arrived strapped to a pallet, and then had to get help to unpack and move it into place on my rack. :lol: I'm sure you'll enjoy it, be sure to let us know how it goes! :popcorn:
 
I apologize if I remembered incorrectly. I know he had done a lot of listening and thought the amps were amazing.. Maybe I confuse some of his results with the stereophile review or other publication. My apologies again. I myself was looking hard for white Camaros reviews about a week ago when talking with somebody about an m600 a for myself. I was having a hard time finding it. I actually never did. I have read about these amps in as many places as possible as I'm pretty interested in them.

The Audiogon link is here: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/my-long-list-of-amplifiers-and-my-personal-review-of-each

and it's by https://forum.audiogon.com/users/whitecamaross
 
what tube preamps work best with Luxman m900u? and is balanced or single ended the best route?

The new top dog tube preamp, Luxman CL1000 making it’s world debut next week in Munich would be an obvious choice.

And either balanced or SE sounds great.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
The new top dog tube preamp, Luxman CL1000 making it’s world debut next week in Munich would be an obvious choice.

And either balanced or SE sounds great.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • 8247C91E-F23C-46A5-BE80-6D160DF0E9F8.jpeg
    8247C91E-F23C-46A5-BE80-6D160DF0E9F8.jpeg
    71.5 KB · Views: 683
Mike & other Sharks....
Please correct me if I am wrong...
It is my understanding that you have to be careful bridging amps...
When you bridge amps...you you double the output impedance to the speakers...in doing so you may cause a mismatch..
eg...if the amp struggles at 2 ohms or lower dips in speakers ...then you bridge it...it will then struggle at 4 ohms or lower...
Look forward to wiser heads than me for clarification...
Thanks...

Since the M-900u is stable into 1 ohm loads in stereo (rated at 1200W + 1200W), bridged mono operation will be much better than most monos can achieve without bridging.
 
Back
Top