Lumin support for Plex

T

timiambeing

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Hi - was just wondering (did do a search but nothing came up) is there any possibility that Lumin would support Plex Loudness Levelling?
 
Excellent! 👍 Well as LUMIN are I think the only streamer that supports a native Plex endpoint (I come from Roon so that’s what I call it! 😊) I’m already impressed… WiiM I discovered can only support Plex as a built in streaming service in their app, which is fine.
 
mep said:
How does that affect dynamic range?
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As far as I know Replaygain does not effect things, but then I hear that even though Plex has the Replaygain data and displays it, it uses its own method to alter the volume… it’s seems to be a bit of a law unto itself in lots of respects!
 
timiambeing said:
As far as I know Replaygain does not effect things, but then I hear that even though Plex has the Replaygain data and displays it, it uses its own method to alter the volume… it’s seems to be a bit of a law unto itself in lots of respects!
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If it's normalizing levels, it's affecting things.
 
I thought this might be interesting to post here, as single sentence perceived wisdom can be taken as fact (and so often is in audiophile circles) leading to those less familiar with the terms taking away a misleading impression…

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ReplayGain generally has no detrimental effect on sound quality
because it typically works as a lossless metadata tag rather than a permanent alteration of the audio data.

How Sound Quality is Preserved
  • Non-destructive Process: Standard ReplayGain scanners analyze a file and store the gain adjustment value in a metadata tag (like an ID3v2 or Vorbis tag). The original audio samples remain untouched and bit-perfect.
  • Linear Gain Adjustment: It only changes the overall volume (gain) during playback. Unlike dynamic range compression, it does not "crush" the music or alter the relationship between quiet and loud parts.
  • Preventing Clipping: ReplayGain can actually improve sound quality by lowering the volume of "hot" recordings, preventing digital clipping or inter-sample peaks that might distort at the DAC stage.

  • Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum +6


Potential Risks or Trade-offs
While the process is theoretically transparent, some minor issues can arise:
  • Perceived Quality Loss: Quieter music often sounds less "bright" or clear to human ears (due to psychoacoustics). Listeners sometimes mistake this necessary volume reduction for a loss in fidelity.
  • Noise Floor: If a track is significantly attenuated by ReplayGain, you may need to turn up your physical amplifier higher, which could potentially expose the noise floor or distortion of your hardware.
  • Positive Gain Clipping: If a player is configured to boost volume (positive gain) for quiet tracks, it may induce digital clipping if "clipping prevention" isn't enabled in the player.
  • Non-Standard Tools: Some older tools (like MP3Gain or AACGain) can modify the file's internal global gain fields. While technically lossless and reversible in most cases, these are limited to 1.5dB steps and physically alter the file.
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That just about sums it up I reckon… but like I say, all bets are off if Plex doesn’t use Replaygain and instead alters files prior to treating them to an endpoint… 🤷‍♂️
 
I wouldn't touch Replay gain with a 10' pole. It sounds like a solution in search of a problem when you can just use the volume control on your preamp to adjust the volume level of your recordings.
 
timiambeing said:
  • Non-destructive Process: Standard ReplayGain scanners analyze a file and store the gain adjustment value in a metadata tag (like an ID3v2 or Vorbis tag). The original audio samples remain untouched and bit-perfect.
  • Linear Gain Adjustment: It only changes the overall volume (gain) during playback. Unlike dynamic range compression, it does not "crush" the music or alter the relationship between quiet and loud parts.
Click to expand...

"bit-perfect" is clearly NOT true for conventional digital volume for the purpose of playing with replay gain (not talking about the original files - which is misleading), and can easily be proven. If you use Roon, it has a signal path that clearly turns from Lossless to something that means non-Lossless once you turn on volume leveling.
 
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wklie said:
"bit-perfect" is clearly NOT true for conventional digital volume for the purpose of playing with replay gain (not talking about the original files - which is misleading), and can easily be proven. If you use Roon, it has a signal path that clearly turns from Lossless to something that means non-Lossless once you turn on volume leveling.
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So what you are saying is the file may arrive bit perfect with Replaygain data installed, but as soon as that data is used to adjust volume in the digital domain then the stream has been altered and is now not bit perfect - I see that yes. But then as soon as my preamp gets the analogue signal it alters the waveform, and so does the power amplifiers, and the cables and the speakers most of all… chasing bit perfect as an indication of ‘high fidelity to the source’ is an audiophile fascination I gave up years ago (a bit like believing measurements can accurately describe what you are hearing with your ears in your listening room).

Anyway, I always believed LeedH was probably the most transparent and clever ways to do digital volume control. If anyone can implement digital Replay gain adjustment without audible effect I am sure LUMIN can… 😊

By the way @mep I’m not talking about album listening, that would have no reason to use Replaygain, but I think for play back of a playlist it’s essential. Don’t you find the constant reaching for the remote to up and down volume is a pain, especially when we have tried and tested technology that can deal with that?

I’ve used Roon for years and soon realised chasing bit perfect playback (after needing PEQ for room modes I couldn’t treat without intrusive great bass traps all over the place) was daft. The fidelity of my equipment was improved many fold, by removing room effects (and a nasty loudspeaker cabinet resonance) I could at last hear what the artist intended.

I like the way Roon call their digital interference ‘Enhanced’ when you check the audio chain to see what’s been applied… but sadly I had to let Roon go as I now have a shiny new CD transport and EQ is no longer an option without extra hardware.

Anyway, interesting discussion and food for thought for me at least, here I was chasing audiophile purity with my LUMIN streamer and my high end Denafrips R2R DAC, when my room now exhibits a couple of annoying bass spikes and the right speaker is louder than the left (because of early reflections I am unwilling to deal with by ruining my lovely minimalist living room)… when an Eversolo streaming DAC with DSP would sort both these issues with the latest technology, at around half the price… 🤔
 
timiambeing said:
By the way @mep I’m not talking about album listening, that would have no reason to use Replaygain, but I think for play back of a playlist it’s essential. Don’t you find the constant reaching for the remote to up and down volume is a pain, especially when we have tried and tested technology that can deal with that?
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I don't have any need to constantly reach for my remote to adjust the volume. I'm an album listener not a single song listener.
 
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