Lukasz not happy...

Mike

Mike

Audioshark
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https://www.facebook.com/FikusLampi/videos/2111379059094021/

Does anyone know what he’s doing here? I’ve watched the video and I’m not quite sure.


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Wait...I think I figured it out....it’s playing from RAM.

Not sure of the connection, but ok.


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So, it plays from RAM. How did the data get to RAM? Via the VRDS. The whole purpose of the VRDS is to have fewer misreads. So, I don't get the complaint.
 
slowgeezr said:
So, it plays from RAM. How did the data get to RAM? Via the VRDS. The whole purpose of the VRDS is to have fewer misreads. So, I don't get the complaint.
Click to expand...

Me either.


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This is what jinjuku was referring to in the Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference. jinjuku is 50% correct IMO.

Basically data has to be loaded into RAM before computer/DAC can process it. If Esoteric is processing from RAM, don't need a fancy VRDS platter ... just needs to load into RAM before play.

With Ethernet, if DAC buffers everything into RAM before play, then SQ is not dependent on Ethernet cable, Music Servers ... This is jinjuku argument but IMO, it's dependent on size of the buffer. If buffers whole album, then it doesn't matter. But only a few seconds, then it does matter. I can easily hear differences between Ethernet cables with my Ethernet DAC.

I predicted years ago using Ethernet and next prediction is DACs buffer whole album before play so Ethernet cable, Music Servers ... are not important.

Also DAC use TCP/IP over Ethernet. It's a connection protocol with 100% reliable, it keeps reading until data is correct. Back bone of internet processing billions daily in financial markets.

My $.02
 
Mike said:
Wait...I think I figured it out....it’s playing from RAM.

Not sure of the connection, but ok.
Click to expand...

In a traditional design of a CD player, the quality of CD mechanism plays a big role in the SQ due to jitter. When you buffer it to RAM, theory says that the source jitter is no longer important (similar to the argument of asynchronous USB). Perhaps he is unhappy because of thinking the presence of RAM buffering somehow indicates the quality of the mechanism itself is not the real contribution to good SQ? I'm not sure this is necessarily true. What I guess to be happening is that Esoteric added RAM buffering to its already excellent mechanism. Note that dCS also uses Esoteric SACD playback mechanism.

In the audio world, theory and practice is not perfectly consistent. In 1990 it was already mentioned there were designers who believed buffering does not eliminate CD source jitter:
https://www.stereophile.com/content/cd-jitter-errors-magic-page-3

In computer audio, theory says that asynchronous USB makes a DAC free of the source jitter. Yet there are products that regenerate the USB signal with a good clock, with many satisfied users reporting improved SQ.

Jitter aside, a mechanically stable mechanism also helps with SQ because some components such as capacitors can be affected by vibration. I suppose readers of this forum understands the sonic advantages of mechanical stability from audiophile racks more than I do. :)
 
knghifi said:
This is what jinjuku was referring to in the Do Ethernet cables Make a Difference. jinjuku is 50% correct IMO.

Basically data has to be loaded into RAM before computer/DAC can process it. If Esoteric is processing from RAM, don't need a fancy VRDS platter ... just needs to load into RAM before play.

With Ethernet, if DAC buffers everything into RAM before play, then SQ is not dependent on Ethernet cable, Music Servers ... This is jinjuku argument but IMO, it's dependent on size of the buffer. If buffers whole album, then it doesn't matter. But only a few seconds, then it does matter. I can easily hear differences between Ethernet cables with my Ethernet DAC.

I predicted years ago using Ethernet and next prediction is DACs buffer whole album before play so Ethernet cable, Music Servers ... are not important.

Also DAC use TCP/IP over Ethernet. It's a connection protocol with 100% reliable, it keeps reading until data is correct. Back bone of internet processing billions daily in financial markets.

My $.02
Click to expand...
Error correction protocol should matter though. 100% of data verified, but if out of order, that is JITTER. I have been told that deterministic jitter is fully corrected by asynchronous mode operation of the Dac but that random jitter cannot be.
 
I think he’s saying if it’s being buffered into RAM and jitter minimization is happening in the RAM buffer, there is no need for the overbuilt (and overcharging) VRDS drive because it’s being made redundant by audio correction in RAM buffer. Am I reading that correctly? In other words, VRDS drive in this application is gimmicky because it’s benefit when the DAC was reading the bits in real time in prior models is no longer applicable when your buffering data in RAM and applying jitter minimization in the buffer stage and is it’s there now just to justify the price point.
 
cmalak said:
I think he’s saying if it’s being buffered into RAM and jitter minimization is happening in the RAM buffer, there is no need for the overbuilt (and overcharging) VRDS drive because it’s being made redundant by audio correction in RAM buffer..
Click to expand...

That was my reading of it....

There are cheaper players out there that use RAM buffer technique, if that negates the need for VRS quality drive then good luck to them. I still find VRS appealing even if electronic processing techniques make the high quality servo/drive system less critical to overall performance.
 
slowgeezr said:
So, it plays from RAM. How did the data get to RAM? Via the VRDS. The whole purpose of the VRDS is to have fewer misreads. So, I don't get the complaint.
Click to expand...

I guess Lukasz displeasure is based on the TEAC Very Rigid Clamping System allowing better reading and thus data should be read directly.

Also agree that playback from SSD cache provides fastest reading and best accuracy, as in that approach bit proofing has already happened before playback.

He’s basically snobbing around.


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