Looking for an integrated/power amp for my Vienna Acoustics Mahlers

G

greg_f

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Hi all,



New member here so take it easy 😊



My current system consists of a Teac VRDS-25 CD player with a superclock used only as a transport / a streamer into a Weiss DAC 202. The Weiss feeds a BAT VK40 preamp modified with Mundorf SilverOil coupling caps. The powers amps are DIY Hypex Ncore NC400 based monoblocks feeding the Vienna Acoustics Mahler speakers with upgraded crossover components. There is no analogue front end. I mainly listen to rock, progressive metal/symphonic metal and a little opera.

The system sounds good but I feel the highs are little harsh, perhaps even thin with even a hint of sibilance which I think could be associated with the Class D amplification. I am therefore thinking of either upgrading the monoblocks or replace the preamp and the power amps with a quality integrated. Valves are out, the Mahlers while are relatively efficient, present a difficult load dropping to below 3 Ohms at some frequencies below 100Hz, IMO they need loads of current to drive them properly.

I am considering the following integrated amps:

Gryphon Diablo ( the original, NOT the 300) / Diablo120
T+A PA3000HV
ASR Emitter II (Exclusive)
Vitus RI-100
Audio Flight FLS10
Audio Analogue Maestro Anniversary
Audionet Watt?


Alternatively I keep the BAT preamp and I look for a power amp:

Old secondhand Gryphon Antileon (perhaps Signature, not the EVO)
Burmester 956 MKII
Hegel H30
Linnenberg Liszt
Kinki Studio EX-P7
other?


I am based in Europe, all of the above are within my budget (mostly secondhand), I could stretch my budget for something exceptional. Unfortunately there is no way I could audition any of it where I live so it is going to be a blind buy...
Anything else to consider? Any thoughts?

Thanks!
 
What's your budget, Greg?

If I were looking for an integrated in the price range of the Gryphon, I would look for a nice, clean, used DarTZeel CTH-8550.
 
Puma Cat said:
What's your budget, Greg?

If I were looking for an integrated in the price range of the Gryphon, I would look for a nice, clean, used DarTZeel CTH-8550.
Click to expand...

A used DarTZeel CTH-8550 is certainly within my budget. Strange I never considered DarTZeel for some reason. How does it sound compared to the Gryphon? Have you heard the DarTzeel with the Mahlers?
 
Dartzeel Will not like difficult speaker loads so be careful.
 
Not all Class D amps are prone to sibilance. You might also consider the Devialet Expert Pro 220. It’s a Class D amp but is very smooth, yet detailed.
 
Oly said:
Not all Class D amps are prone to sibilance. You might also consider the Devialet Expert Pro 220. It’s a Class D amp but is very smooth, yet detailed.
Click to expand...

Agreed, I have heard class D amps sounding totally different to each other. I had several of them ranging from the initial BelCanto, the Nuforce Ref9SE and some ICEpower ones. I just feel I would like to try a different class ones, a class A or AB.
 
I had the Strauss and still have the Beethoven's. The krell kav 300il was so musical it had a class a pre amp section and 200 wpc. It overheated and needed service more often than I could handle so in comes the hegel h360. Excellent bass and just as musical with the Beethoven's but for some reason the Strauss, while having great bass wasn't as detailed in the upper range as the Beethoven's for what it's worth I think there's a tweeter upgrade available for the mahler, I know there used to be.
 
steve59 said:
I had the Strauss and still have the Beethoven's. The krell kav 300il was so musical it had a class a pre amp section and 200 wpc. It overheated and needed service more often than I could handle so in comes the hegel h360. Excellent bass and just as musical with the Beethoven's but for some reason the Strauss, while having great bass wasn't as detailed in the upper range as the Beethoven's for what it's worth I think there's a tweeter upgrade available for the mahler, I know there used to be.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Good to know that someone else appreciates VA, IMO with the right amplification there are very good speakers. I have been in contact with VA in the past and I believe the tweeter update has been done to my Mahlers. I really don't have any issue with the extension in the treble region, they are resolving enough. I heard a pair of older generation B&W speakers and I couldn't wait to get back to the Mahlers. Interesting that the krell was having issues, I would have thought it provided enough current without any trouble but there you go. Perhaps the difference in the sound between the Strauss and the Beethovens is their response and impedance due to the side firing bass unit of the Strauss which could effect the whole frequency response.
 
Hi Greg;

As I have a bit bigger VA (Liszt) and I run them with quite similar to your initial setup, I'm wondering what do you miss with it.
I have ARC75 power amp and D class power amp based on Ice 1200s2 modules on hand and with both VA sings like crazy. Being honest to myself I don't see any massive diff (if at all Ref75 vs D class).
To me in this case, great source and great preamp are the main ingredients of the proper outcome - especially if I run D class - which I do most of the time now.
 
Golum said:
Hi Greg;

As I have a bit bigger VA (Liszt) and I run them with quite similar to your initial setup, I'm wondering what do you miss with it.
I have ARC75 power amp and D class power amp based on Ice 1200s2 modules on hand and with both VA sings like crazy. Being honest to myself I don't see any massive diff (if at all Ref75 vs D class).
To me in this case, great source and great preamp are the main ingredients of the proper outcome - especially if I run D class - which I do most of the time now.
Click to expand...

Nice speakers! The issue I have with my class D is in the treble region, sometimes I find the sound slightly thin, perhaps a hint of sibilance and even a little unnatural. I have been using exclusively class D amps all these years that I had the VAs (about 15) so I thought perhaps I should try a different class. It could be that my preamp is more the issue than my power amp, that is why I was thinking maybe a upper end integrated will give me what I am looking for. I find it interesting that you don't hear much difference between the ARC and the ICEPower, it makes me wonder if I should really change amplification.
 
greg_f said:
Nice speakers! The issue I have with my class D is in the treble region, sometimes I find the sound slightly thin, perhaps a hint of sibilance and even a little unnatural. I have been using exclusively class D amps all these years that I had the VAs (about 15) so I thought perhaps I should try a different class. It could be that my preamp is more the issue than my power amp, that is why I was thinking maybe a upper end integrated will give me what I am looking for. I find it interesting that you don't hear much difference between the ARC and the ICEPower, it makes me wonder if I should really change amplification.
Click to expand...
What I've seen your BAT is SS? In my experience best results with D class as power amp you achieve with a real good tube preamp so if you could borrow one to just give it a go would be great. On top I did not try personally but several of my great audio buddies compared Ice 1200s2 vs Ncore 400 and the result was always in favor of Ice1200. So if you can again lay hands and try this one it may change the ball game but exploring with the tube preamp would be my first choice.
 
I think if I keep the separates I will try a good valve preamp. Any suggestions to match my system?
 
Tube preamps wise - ARC is always a great solution, Einstein The Pre is fantastic (friend has it in combo with D class), BAT (swap 6n30 with 6n6p tubes) - and I'm sure there are many more out there...these are the ones I had or heard personally.
 
Greg - Don't discount Class D until you've heard the new Purifi based ones.

I've just bought the NAD M33 that uses this 200 watt Class D module and it's so much better in treble and in detail than other Class D I've used. These include earlier NADs, Diavelet, Lingdorf and it's better in my view to most Class A (I've used Accuphase, Sugden) and AB (Benchmark, Micromega, Quad, GamuT, etc). The M33 also has a good DAC , streamer and Dirac room correction built in.
 
audionet does black friday factory selling this year for black units again. you get up to 35%!
depending on the difference of your countrys tax against germany , you might get even more discount. germany 19% vs switzerland 7,7% for example. so i did get another 11%. this is only possible for countrys without audionet distributor/dealers unfortunately!!
they have amazing integrated amps, even if you pay full price!
 
Do you mean you can't tell a difference between the ARC 75 and your Class D in a certain frequency range or what? It seems to me those two should have drastic sonic differences.

Golum said:
Hi Greg;

As I have a bit bigger VA (Liszt) and I run them with quite similar to your initial setup, I'm wondering what do you miss with it.
I have ARC75 power amp and D class power amp based on Ice 1200s2 modules on hand and with both VA sings like crazy. Being honest to myself I don't see any massive diff (if at all Ref75 vs D class).
To me in this case, great source and great preamp are the main ingredients of the proper outcome - especially if I run D class - which I do most of the time now.
Click to expand...
 
Hear Here said:
Greg - Don't discount Class D until you've heard the new Purifi based ones.

I've just bought the NAD M33 that uses this 200 watt Class D module and it's so much better in treble and in detail than other Class D I've used. These include earlier NADs, Diavelet, Lingdorf and it's better in my view to most Class A (I've used Accuphase, Sugden) and AB (Benchmark, Micromega, Quad, GamuT, etc). The M33 also has a good DAC , streamer and Dirac room correction built in.
Click to expand...

I am not discounting anything. The M33 should be a good one. I did hear an early Purifi based amp and IMO is not that different to Ncore. Slightly lower noise floor, similar signature. Of course the class of amplification is not the only significant factor, the design, the input stage, the power supply/rails and quality of the components used all matter. What is very promising is the recent use of GaN transistors which should allow much better output filter design (higher frequency) of the class D amps.

In my case I don't need a DAC function (I already have a very good DAC) or a streamer. Dirac is very useful but I have a Trinnov room correction processor which uses propitiatory algorithms that I believe are some of the best in the business. So what i need is a 'traditional' pre/power amp or an integrated.
 
greg_f said:
A used DarTZeel CTH-8550 is certainly within my budget. Strange I never considered DarTZeel for some reason. How does it sound compared to the Gryphon? Have you heard the DarTzeel with the Mahlers?
Click to expand...

I've never heard the Dart with anything but Evolution Acoustics speakers and a Studer reel-to-reel tape deck, and it was absolutely astonishing with those. Probably one of the 3 finest SS "amps" I've ever heard.

With respect to difficult to drive speaker loads, if that is a concern consider the Constellation Argo integrated. My understanding is it will drive ANYTHING.
 
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