Look out R2R the Ayre QX-5 is coming to town!

True that [emoji5]. I however do have several good DACs from Ayre and others with various ESS chips. And they are all good to magnificent. Especially like the Codex.

But none beats my Meitner MA-1 so far. That is however just one person's individual opinion and does not have any validity outside my music room... in a chain tuned to my liking... and when I am listening that is [emoji12].


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Kuoppis said:
True that [emoji5]. I however do have several good DACs from Ayre and others with various ESS chips. And they are all good to magnificent. Especially like the Codex.

But none beats my Meitner MA-1 so far. That is however just one person's individual opinion and does not have any validity outside my music room... in a chain tuned to my liking... and when I am listening that is [emoji12].


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Click to expand...

Yes but they used 10 year old chip technology. 10 years is like a century for DAC technology :)
 
Mivera Audio said:
Yes but they used 10 year old chip technology. 10 years is like a century for DAC technology :)
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I must apologize beforehand, as here's some 'ouch' for you: You just demonstrated to everyone you have not fully internalized the differences of the concepts you are comparing.

In a Sabre chip the intelligence is hard coded into the silicon and thus, when the chip is ten years old, the technology is as well.

The Meitner however relies on a FPGA concept, which can be updated. The algorithms for the chip, i.e. here respectively the signal acquisition technology, the signal processing algorithm, the D/A conversion and the master clock do evolve. Meitner released an update to all of these fifteen months ago, so that is how old my DAC technology is.

That is pretty much the point why a hard coded off-the-shelve DAC might not be the best option, as in today's fast moving technology world HW becomes obsolete quite fast. But this applies to the very top end of the market only.
 
Kuoppis said:
I must apologize beforehand, as here's some 'ouch' for you: You just demonstrated to everyone you have not fully internalized the differences of the concepts you are comparing.

In a Sabre chip the intelligence is hard coded into the silicon and thus, when the chip is ten years old, the technology is as well.

The Meitner however relies on a FPGA concept, which can be updated. The algorithms for the chip, i.e. here respectively the signal acquisition technology, the signal processing algorithm, the D/A conversion and the master clock do evolve. Meitner released an update to all of these fifteen months ago, so that is how old my DAC technology is.

That is pretty much the point why a hard coded off-the-shelve DAC might not be the best option, as in today's fast moving technology world HW becomes obsolete quite fast. But this applies to the very top end of the market only.
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Yes this is true but the FPGA's also have to keep up as well. This is why Ed keeps upgrading his DAC's every couple of years with more powerful FPGA's. Even with the dinosaur ESS 9018, DAC's have still been getting better to date that use it.

Me personally like the Meitner concept, but using a 1000 times more powerful I7 quad core processor rather than FPGA. But most don't think the way I do :)
 
A village of audiophiles get up for work, one gets in his Porsche, one gets in his Ford, another gets in his Hummer. They all arrive at the office for a day's work but each arrived in a different vehicle.
 
nc42acc said:
A village of audiophiles get up for work, one gets in his Porsche, one gets in his Ford, another gets in his Hummer. They all arrive at the office for a day's work but each arrived in a different vehicle.
Click to expand...

You know, sometimes a well implemented old DAC tastes like a good red wine with a killer redbook. For example, the 1 bit TDA1541A-S1 in the Studer A730 and say a Burr Brown 2900 in the likes of the underrated Toshiba SD900e/SD9200/9500. The last gasp of true Toshiba engineering certainly. Sure, antique but have we really moved ahead exponentially after all of this time while fussing about with format and interfaces...

And of course the formidable McIntosh MDA1000 multi stage Cirrus Logic CS8416 + 8 X Burr Brown PCM1704 + Burr Brown OP2134 + Burr Brown PGA2310 ladders. Argueably the best DAC McIntosh has ever made, probably one of the best multi-stage implementations in existence. Apparently Accuphase have made multi-stage DACs like this also.

I have listened to a few ESS Sabre DAC implementations in McIntosh and other boxes and whilst I do like the sound, they have never totally blown me away like say the MDA1000. Maybe their new generation chips have greater implementation potential...:dunno: but I won't be rushing out for yet another DAC with an ESS heart.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts on ESS bias, I am a fan of Ayre product. Only wish it was easier to get in Australia. Perhaps It is time for Ayre to re-assess it's current Aussie dealer relationship.
 
nc42acc said:
A village of audiophiles get up for work, one gets in his Porsche, one gets in his Ford, another gets in his Hummer. They all arrive at the office for a day's work but each arrived in a different vehicle.
Click to expand...

Steve said:
You know, sometimes a well implemented old DAC tastes like a good red wine with a killer redbook. For example, the 1 bit TDA1541A-S1 in the Studer A730 and say a Burr Brown 2900 in the likes of the underrated Toshiba SD900e/SD9200/9500. The last gasp of true Toshiba engineering certainly. Sure, antique but have we really moved ahead exponentially after all of this time while fussing about with format and interfaces...

And of course the formidable McIntosh MDA1000 multi stage Cirrus Logic CS8416 + 8 X Burr Brown PCM1704 + Burr Brown OP2134 + Burr Brown PGA2310 ladders. Argueably the best DAC McIntosh has ever made, probably one of the best multi-stage implementations in existence. Apparently Accuphase have made multi-stage DACs like this also.

I have listened to a few ESS Sabre DAC implementations in McIntosh and other boxes and whilst I do like the sound, they have never totally blown me away like say the MDA1000. Maybe their new generation chips have greater implementation potential...:dunno: but I won't be rushing out for yet another DAC with an ESS heart.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts on ESS bias, I am a fan of Ayre product. Only wish it was easier to get in Australia. Perhaps It is time for Ayre to re-assess it's current Aussie dealer relationship.
Click to expand...


Well said boys.
 
nc42acc said:
A village of audiophiles get up for work, one gets in his Porsche, one gets in his Ford, another gets in his Hummer. They all arrive at the office for a day's work but each arrived in a different vehicle.
Click to expand...

And the guy who drove the Porsche had a much more exciting drive to work than the other 2 :)
 
Steve said:
You know, sometimes a well implemented old DAC tastes like a good red wine with a killer redbook. For example, the 1 bit TDA1541A-S1 in the Studer A730 and say a Burr Brown 2900 in the likes of the underrated Toshiba SD900e/SD9200/9500. The last gasp of true Toshiba engineering certainly. Sure, antique but have we really moved ahead exponentially after all of this time while fussing about with format and interfaces...

And of course the formidable McIntosh MDA1000 multi stage Cirrus Logic CS8416 + 8 X Burr Brown PCM1704 + Burr Brown OP2134 + Burr Brown PGA2310 ladders. Argueably the best DAC McIntosh has ever made, probably one of the best multi-stage implementations in existence. Apparently Accuphase have made multi-stage DACs like this also.

I have listened to a few ESS Sabre DAC implementations in McIntosh and other boxes and whilst I do like the sound, they have never totally blown me away like say the MDA1000. Maybe their new generation chips have greater implementation potential...:dunno: but I won't be rushing out for yet another DAC with an ESS heart.

Please don't misconstrue my thoughts on ESS bias, I am a fan of Ayre product. Only wish it was easier to get in Australia. Perhaps It is time for Ayre to re-assess it's current Aussie dealer relationship.
Click to expand...

It's very hard to judge next generation technology based on outdated technology.
 
Mivera Audio said:
It's very hard to judge next generation technology based on outdated technology.
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Good point. Sometimes the outdated stuff blows away the new stuff: R2R (both kinds - tape and res-to-res), tubes, vinyl, cabernets, my old socks, etc. etc. We shall see on this one, we shall see.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Good point. Sometimes the outdated stuff blows away the new stuff: R2R (both kinds - tape and res-to-res), tubes, vinyl, cabernets, my old socks, etc. etc. We shall see on this one, we shall see.
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Early SDM technology was weak. The 9018 was a huge milestone for SDM technology. As for the 9038, what the designer of the 9018, 9038 and the Resonessence Mirus DAC (His version of the ultimate 9018 implementation) told me is, the cheap evaluation board for the 9038 powered by a cheap SMPS blows away the Mirus with the 9018's. And I believe him too. That evaluation board should be available here soon for anyone who wants to upgrade their 9018 based DAC's:

http://www.shawelectronics.com/dac-evaluation-boards.html

Here's an example of what they look like:

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Mivera Audio said:
Well those fancy clocks can be expensive. Also it will likely kill any R2R under $20K
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How would you possibly know?? I know that you are the master at talking about systems you have never put together "killing" systems far more expensive that you also have never heard. How many decks have you heard at your house?
 
mep said:
How would you possibly know?? I know that you are the master at talking about systems you have never put together "killing" systems far more expensive that you also have never heard. How many decks have you heard at your house?
Click to expand...

Looks like one of those guys surfaced that I was talking about a few posts back. You're right, I don't know the cost of the clocks they use, but it's likely more than the 70 cents it costs for the clocks on the Amanero that some DAC's costing over double use as their master clock. :)
 
Mivera Audio said:
And the guy who drove the Porsche had a much more exciting drive to work than the other 2 :)
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Sounds like a recurring theme with your comments. Why do I suspect you have never put a Hummer through its paces. It will certainly do things a Porsche has never dreamed of and visa versa; I believe that was his point.
 
FlexibleAudio said:
Sounds like a recurring theme with your comments. Why do I suspect you have never put a Hummer through its paces. It will certainly do things a Porsche has never dreamed of and visa versa; I believe that was his point.
Click to expand...

I suppose it depends which road he drove down to get to work. If he's a forest ranger, the hummer probably would offer a better experience :)
 
Mivera Audio said:
Looks like one of those guys surfaced that I was talking about a few posts back. You're right, I don't know the cost of the clocks they use, but it's likely more than the 70 cents it costs for the clocks on the Amanero that some DAC's costing over double use as their master clock. :)
Click to expand...

I'm not talking about clocks. I'm taking about the comment you made about $20k reel to reel decks. Keep up with me.
 
mep said:
I'm not talking about clocks. I'm taking about the comment you made about $20k reel to reel decks. Keep up with me.
Click to expand...

Maybe read the thread before commenting. If it were tape I was talking about another 0 would have been on the end :)
 
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