Thanks Chris. So the N-05 uses 4490?
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Linn finally acknowledges DSD exists
- Thread starter Kuoppis
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jdandy
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It is rather astonishing that Linn appears to have intentionally crippled the AK4497 DAC's capability to decode DSD in their newest Klimax components. That AKM AK4497 DAC is the same one that's in the new Esoteric Grandioso K1, their premier single box SACD/CD/DAC to be released next month in Japan. The AK4497 is capable of 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD. Other than maintaining the company mantra of the uselessness of DSD, I don't understand why Linn would stifle sales opportunities against their competitors with such a narrow minded design philosophy, especially when their chosen DAC delivers state of the art DSD capabilities.
Kuoppis
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It will be really interesting to see if that indeed is the case, it would be bamboozling. Especially as there now also are Linn DSD downloads (only a few though). And a +15K DAC without support for all possible formats might be a hard sell in the future. But as it is a FPGA concept any truth might also be temporary.
As the entire Katalyst announcement is fairly recent (Sep 16), there is not too much data available yet on how the AK4497 has been implemented in the Klimax range. Let's wait and see.
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As the entire Katalyst announcement is fairly recent (Sep 16), there is not too much data available yet on how the AK4497 has been implemented in the Klimax range. Let's wait and see.
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asiufy
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Dan / Kuoppis,
As I said, the apparent lack of DSD might have something to do with the DSP functionality that's built-in every Linn streamer. You can't do DSP in pure DSD at this point, so maybe they just opted not to offer it, prefering the benefits of DSP instead.
But as I said, I'll know more soon!
BTW I've just heard from Linn, and one good bit of news here: existing Klimax DS and DSM owners will be able upgrade to the new DAC platform, for a fraction of the price of a new unit!
As I said, the apparent lack of DSD might have something to do with the DSP functionality that's built-in every Linn streamer. You can't do DSP in pure DSD at this point, so maybe they just opted not to offer it, prefering the benefits of DSP instead.
But as I said, I'll know more soon!
BTW I've just heard from Linn, and one good bit of news here: existing Klimax DS and DSM owners will be able upgrade to the new DAC platform, for a fraction of the price of a new unit!
Glareskin
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Also a few years ago two groups of audio enthusiasts in Asia and Europe compared the Lumin (the first on the market, I think it is still the top model?) with the Linn line-up from that time and concluded that the Lumin was on Majik level. A later test in Audio magazine more or less confirmed this. I have copied a link to the Asian comparison because that was in English. http://forums.linn.co.uk/bb/showthread.php?tid=22481&highlight=lumin
Since then Linn introduced two new generations and the latest one with the Katalyst PCB gets very good feedback. Here is a review in the British magazine HiFi+.
http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/linn-klimax-ds-network-music-player/
Also Audio rated the Klimax DS/3 (with Katalyst) as the best they ever heard. I realize these are just opinions but I also believe they cannot all be wrong or biased. I think the audio lovers on this forum that always pick the very finest gear should at least give it a try one day. And it does work fine with the great Lumin app
Will the new product(s) support DSD?
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Glareskin
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No. At least not for now. According to the chip specialists in this thread the chip set is capable of DSD but Linn doesn't offer it.
Glareskin
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Thanks Dan! But as you concluded: Linn doesn't offer it....Glareskin.......I dug a little deeper for you. The new Linn Klimax DS and DSM uses the latest AKM4497 DAC that is seen in the photo below. The data sheet on the AKM AK4497 DAC is here: https://www.akm.com/akm/en/file/datasheet/AK4497EQ.pdf . It states the AK4497 accepts up to 768kHz PCM data and 22.4MHz DSD data. Linn does not show in the spec sheet for the Klimax components that it can play DSD. https://www.linn.co.uk/hifi-separates/network-music-players/klimax#comparison-table
asiufy
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I've just attended the launch event for the new Linn Klimax w/ the new (4th generation) DAC technology, called Katalyst.
Indeed, DSD is not supported for the reason I outlined before: it would simply negate a lot of the benefits that Linn offers in its products, and what makes them different from a regular streamer. So, no volume control, no room optimization, among other things.
Their technical director was available, and he said they could do DSD, it's all a question of priorities. At the moment, they're hard at work getting the whole Linn lineup ready for multichannel/surround, so that's taking a lot of resources.
At the event, I could also compare the previous Klimax DS (and DSM) to the new models, and the difference isn't subtle. The new stuff attains levels of naturalness that are very impressive, for an all-in-one-box solution.
Indeed, DSD is not supported for the reason I outlined before: it would simply negate a lot of the benefits that Linn offers in its products, and what makes them different from a regular streamer. So, no volume control, no room optimization, among other things.
Their technical director was available, and he said they could do DSD, it's all a question of priorities. At the moment, they're hard at work getting the whole Linn lineup ready for multichannel/surround, so that's taking a lot of resources.
At the event, I could also compare the previous Klimax DS (and DSM) to the new models, and the difference isn't subtle. The new stuff attains levels of naturalness that are very impressive, for an all-in-one-box solution.
Those of us who have been in the hobby for a long time will remember that Linn steadfastedly refused to acknowledge that digital even existed. It was their LP12 or the highway. They were holdouts for such a long time that it came as a bit of a shock when they finally conceded the blindingly obvious and released a CD player.
They really don't deserve their success. If there are forward thinking British companies that deserve to be successful, that would be Meridian, Wilson Benesch, or Chord. Linn can continue to live in denial and go into receivership for all I care.
They really don't deserve their success. If there are forward thinking British companies that deserve to be successful, that would be Meridian, Wilson Benesch, or Chord. Linn can continue to live in denial and go into receivership for all I care.
asiufy
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Yes, I talked to Linn's technical director, and they just have too much on their plate right now.
I'm just trying to get them to support DSD>PCM on-the-fly conversion in their Linn Kazoo server. That'll help a lot for folks who won't want to mess with MinimServer and ffmpeg etc.
In my server, I'm running a separate instance of MinimServer for the DSD files, and doing the DSD>PCM on-the-fly thing, while I keep a main instance with all the files playing straight through...
I'm just trying to get them to support DSD>PCM on-the-fly conversion in their Linn Kazoo server. That'll help a lot for folks who won't want to mess with MinimServer and ffmpeg etc.
In my server, I'm running a separate instance of MinimServer for the DSD files, and doing the DSD>PCM on-the-fly thing, while I keep a main instance with all the files playing straight through...
Why not just use MinimServer for both DSD and PCM files? Thanks.
Kuoppis
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Yes, this is the Linn philosophy. The problem is just that DSD sounds better than PCM.
Linn' logic is of course that then there is no point in buying DSD files if they're anyway spoilt afterwards in the Linn streamer's conversion process.
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asiufy
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Because the Linn doesn't do DSD. So one instance converts DSD>PCM, and the other instance doesn't. So, if I'm playing the Linn, I'll use one instance, and if I'm playing other DACs/streamers (like our MSBs), we can use the other instance.
asiufy
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Revisiting this thread, a year later, to announce that, finally, Linn now supports native DSD! It's only in the Katalyst powered devices, like the Linn Klimax DS/DSM!
It's just a simple software upgrade, done via Linn's Konfig app.
From what I've read, it's native DSD, direct into the AKM chip, no PCM conversion.
Played a couple of albums already, and it sounds awesome!
The bets are now when Linn will do MQA... My guess is somewhere around 2020
cheers,
Alex
It's just a simple software upgrade, done via Linn's Konfig app.
From what I've read, it's native DSD, direct into the AKM chip, no PCM conversion.
Played a couple of albums already, and it sounds awesome!
The bets are now when Linn will do MQA... My guess is somewhere around 2020
cheers,
Alex