Light Harmonic usb.

Matt715 said:
Bob,

Bruce Brown likes it and posted the following:

"I've always been under the impression when it comes to digital cables, they either work or they don't work, period! At least this was my thinking for AES/EBU cables. I've never messed around with USB cables or even USB DAC's until a year or so ago because USB was never meant for audio streaming.
My first foray into USB was the Playback Designs USB-X for my MPS-5. I needed to go this route because on a second Native Pyramix machine that I was using for all my DSD editing for Chesky, I didn't have a viable way of playing the files unless I did a realtime sample rate conversion to 176.4
Enter the realm of USB... Since that time, USB has become more mainstream, I've learned the idiosyncrasies of using different USB cables with my PB and Mytek DAC's. It's a whole new ballgame and some can be pretty finicky.
I've had about 5-6 USB cables in here that have been sent by manufacturers for me to try and the Light Harmonic is the only one that I've actually wanted to buy and keep in my system.
The Light Harmonic USB cable comes in 2 forms, single and split. I have the split USB cable and don't ask me what is "split" since I haven't a clue. I thought it was some marketing propaganda.
Let me tell you this cable made me change my mind about digital signal cables. There was no change in instrument timbres or anything in the frequency domain. What did change for me was 2 things. First thing I noticed was the noise level. USB connections in computers, especially laptops are notoriously bad with lots of noise and traffic on the same bus. This is the only cable that was dead silent. No picking up of cell phones, other software programs, wireless keyboard/mouse movements or anything! The brochure says this is a differential USB 2.0 (10Gbit) cable, whatever that means. All I know is it works.
Second thing I noticed was differences in the time domain, the way the spatial information was conveyed.
The imaging was better and the soundstage took on another 10'. It's not magnitudes of change, but if I had to put a % on it, it would be about a .5 - 1% change. As most know, getting that last 5% is what separates the men from the boys.
The cables are not cheap.
0.8m = $999
1.6m = $1399
3.8m = $1999

The configurations I've been using are:

Toshiba Tecra laptop running WinXP, Pyramix DSD Native
MacBook running Audirvana+
Desktop running Win7 Pro 64-bit with HQPlayer
---"
Click to expand...

Thanks Matt for that. :cool:
 
ohbythebay said:
Okay ,,,target on me now because

NONE of that applies to a USB cable which has no effect on tonality at all. Its a data cable. Period. 1's and 0's that either ARE or ARE NOT. No rounded edges, no sharp edges, no coloration. So if you spend more than 10 bucks for a USB cable, it is an affectation, not a sonic improvement.

The same cannot be said for interconnects and wires that carry an analog signal. Those can be directly affected by a variety of things such as impendence, noise, grounding, shielding, material...the list goes on...
Click to expand...

Rob, I can purchase a one meter USB cable* for two dollars ($ Canadian), or I can purchase another one (Light Harmonic) of the same length (just a bit shorter) for one thousand dollars ($ US dollars) and gain perhaps 0.5% in overall sound quality, plus some more protection against external noise.
The data is the same going through both of them, but at the end (ears) it just makes that 'difference'. :)

* Twenty-five cents at my local Salvation Army store.
 
Matt715 said:
Bob,

Bruce B. likes it and posted the following:

I've always been under the impression when it comes to digital cables, they either work or they don't work, period! At least this was my thinking for AES/EBU cables. I've never messed around with USB cables or even USB DAC's until a year or so ago because USB was never meant for audio streaming.
My first foray into USB was the Playback Designs USB-X for my MPS-5. I needed to go this route because on a second Native Pyramix machine that I was using for all my DSD editing for Chesky, I didn't have a viable way of playing the files unless I did a realtime sample rate conversion to 176.4
Enter the realm of USB... Since that time, USB has become more mainstream, I've learned the idiosyncrasies of using different USB cables with my PB and Mytek DAC's. It's a whole new ballgame and some can be pretty finicky.
I've had about 5-6 USB cables in here that have been sent by manufacturers for me to try and the Light Harmonic is the only one that I've actually wanted to buy and keep in my system.
The Light Harmonic USB cable comes in 2 forms, single and split. I have the split USB cable and don't ask me what is "split" since I haven't a clue. I thought it was some marketing propaganda.
Let me tell you this cable made me change my mind about digital signal cables. There was no change in instrument timbres or anything in the frequency domain. What did change for me was 2 things. First thing I noticed was the noise level. USB connections in computers, especially laptops are notoriously bad with lots of noise and traffic on the same bus. This is the only cable that was dead silent. No picking up of cell phones, other software programs, wireless keyboard/mouse movements or anything! The brochure says this is a differential USB 2.0 (10Gbit) cable, whatever that means. All I know is it works.
Second thing I noticed was differences in the time domain, the way the spatial information was conveyed. The imaging was better and the soundstage took on another 10'. It's not magnitudes of change, but if I had to put a % on it, it would be about a .5 - 1% change. As most know, getting that last 5% is what separates the men from the boys.
The cables are not cheap.
0.8m = $999
1.6m = $1399
3.8m = $1999

The configurations I've been using are:

Toshiba Tecra laptop running WinXP, Pyramix DSD Native
MacBook running Audirvana+
Desktop running Win7 Pro 64-bit with HQPlayer
---
Click to expand...

Matt..no offense to you or Bruce B...but its hogwash..mind over what matters. There can be no noise injected into it. what can be "perceived" as noise can only be dropped packets or clock issues which would more likely be the receiving end than the cable but could be the cable if it was damaged.

I don' t know how to get this across to you guys. You don't have to believe me but its just plain computer science.

I send you

0001 0011 0000 1100

You either receive it or you don't

If you do, you play back

0001 0011 0000 1100

if you don't, if even one bit is off, the whole packet is flushed and resent as

0001 0011 0000 1100

A zero doesn't become a 1, a 1 doesn't become a 0 and no extra bits are allowed. if there was, imagine a Word doc that suddenly had extra letters

so ..why can't a few dropped packets cause noise ?

Because the data can travel at 480mbps - that is 480 x 1,048,576 bits or capable of 503,316,480 BITS PER SECOND

Now streaming at 320kbps is a fraction of that per second so dropped packets get flushed and regenerated so fast, you would never detect it.

If there are so many dropped packets as to be audible, then the cable is damaged or there is a problem on the receiving end. Again, NOT NOISE.

If you want to read more about packet sizes and such...
USB Transfer and Packet Sizes (Windows Drivers)

But let me tell you this...I support systems that handle hundreds of trillions of packets every minute. Data does not get lost and noisy lines will only slow transmissions as it has to repackage and resend but the receiving end cannot and never will be different than the sending end.
 
NorthStar said:
Rob, I can purchase a one meter USB cable* for two dollars ($ Canadian), or I can purchase another one (Light Harmonic) of the same length (just a bit shorter) for one thousand dollars ($ US dollars) and gain perhaps 0.5% in overall sound quality, plus some more protection against external noise.
The data is the same going through both of them, but at the end (ears) it just makes that 'difference'. :)

* Twenty-five cents at my local Salvation Army store.
Click to expand...

My friend, you could spend the extra $998 dollars but you could never gain a single percentage in sound nor gain protection from external noise as no noise can ever be introduced to the bitstream.

As to packet loss. On the same send, same receive but using a 2 dollar cable vs a $1000 cable, they will have the same exact numbers - to the n't degree UNLESS one gets damaged and then packet loss becomes present but it takes EXTREME packet loss to become audible most notable as "jitter".

Sigh. do me a favor ? Send me the $1000 and I will send you 100 $2 cables you can change once every 3 months just to be sure it hasn't gone stale...LOL
 
ohbythebay said:
Okay ,,,target on me now because

NONE of that applies to a USB cable which has no effect on tonality at all. Its a data cable. Period. 1's and 0's that either ARE or ARE NOT. No rounded edges, no sharp edges, no coloration. So if you spend more than 10 bucks for a USB cable, it is an affectation, not a sonic improvement.

The same cannot be said for interconnects and wires that carry an analog signal. Those can be directly affected by a variety of things such as impendence, noise, grounding, shielding, material...the list goes on...
Click to expand...

Have you ever attended one of Nordost's seminars on USB cables at one of the audio shows? Very interesting and there's a lot more to USB cable other than O and 1s. There was at one time an online video of the RMAF presentation from someone at NASA who specializes in communications and testing.
 
I'm neither for or against this cable. Heck, I don't even have a use for a USB cable; I'm just passing on some info I've run across so that Sharkmouth can make an informed decision.

If he can afford one and would like to try it, who are we to say otherwise? :)
 
Matt715 said:
I'm neither for or against this cable. Heck, I don't even have a use for a USB cable; I'm just passing on some info I've run across so that Sharkmouth can make an informed decision.

If he can afford one and would like to try it, who are we to say otherwise? :)
Click to expand...

Matt, you're not using no USB cable with your digital camera? ...With your programmable remote control (Harmony)? ...With your smart phone (cell)? ...With your tablet? ...With your laptop? ...With your HDTV? ...With your PC/Mac? ...With your Blu-ray player? ...You don't use no USB sticks?

* By the way, Bruce did not say if he purchased that split Light Harmonic USB cable or not.
He said: "The Light Harmonic is the only one that I've actually wanted to buy and keep in my system."
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Have you ever attended one of Nordost's seminars on USB cables at one of the audio shows? Very interesting and there's a lot more to USB cable other than O and 1s. There was at one time an online video of the RMAF presentation from someone at NASA who specializes in communications and testing.
Click to expand...

Not to correct you but there is a lot more to USB protocol, not to USB cables :rolleyes: None of the operations happen at the cables. They are just the transport. The clocking, CRC, etc. are all properties of the sender and the receiver. Unlike analog, cable does not effect the amount of data or quality (unless there is damage or length is exceeded and now were are getting into transport restrictions)

And Matt, yes, he can spend whatever he likes. I just get riled because HIGH end USB cables are the epitome of snake oil sales...

Nuff said..believe or not...its always up to the listener !!!
 
I have WW plat. USB. I thought mine was expensive lol tempting to try theirs but... that's little too much for me.


Matt715 said:
Bob,

Bruce B. likes it and posted the following:

I've always been under the impression when it comes to digital cables, they either work or they don't work, period! At least this was my thinking for AES/EBU cables. I've never messed around with USB cables or even USB DAC's until a year or so ago because USB was never meant for audio streaming.
My first foray into USB was the Playback Designs USB-X for my MPS-5. I needed to go this route because on a second Native Pyramix machine that I was using for all my DSD editing for Chesky, I didn't have a viable way of playing the files unless I did a realtime sample rate conversion to 176.4
Enter the realm of USB... Since that time, USB has become more mainstream, I've learned the idiosyncrasies of using different USB cables with my PB and Mytek DAC's. It's a whole new ballgame and some can be pretty finicky.
I've had about 5-6 USB cables in here that have been sent by manufacturers for me to try and the Light Harmonic is the only one that I've actually wanted to buy and keep in my system.
The Light Harmonic USB cable comes in 2 forms, single and split. I have the split USB cable and don't ask me what is "split" since I haven't a clue. I thought it was some marketing propaganda.
Let me tell you this cable made me change my mind about digital signal cables. There was no change in instrument timbres or anything in the frequency domain. What did change for me was 2 things. First thing I noticed was the noise level. USB connections in computers, especially laptops are notoriously bad with lots of noise and traffic on the same bus. This is the only cable that was dead silent. No picking up of cell phones, other software programs, wireless keyboard/mouse movements or anything! The brochure says this is a differential USB 2.0 (10Gbit) cable, whatever that means. All I know is it works.
Second thing I noticed was differences in the time domain, the way the spatial information was conveyed. The imaging was better and the soundstage took on another 10'. It's not magnitudes of change, but if I had to put a % on it, it would be about a .5 - 1% change. As most know, getting that last 5% is what separates the men from the boys.
The cables are not cheap.
0.8m = $999
1.6m = $1399
3.8m = $1999

The configurations I've been using are:

Toshiba Tecra laptop running WinXP, Pyramix DSD Native
MacBook running Audirvana+
Desktop running Win7 Pro 64-bit with HQPlayer
---
Click to expand...
 
I have the WW Plat usb too, definitely one of the better cables as voted by 100's of 1000's of people world wide, fancy that!
 
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