Light Harmonic usb.

Anyone have an opinion? I know there are people here that uses one of these
 
Now this one kind of boggles me. I understand why cables make a difference in audio quality because of analog signal processing. But upgrade USB cables ?

USB 2.0 cables can handle 480mbps (mega bits) There are 8 bits per byte (divide by 8) so 60Mbps (Mega BYTES).

Its all digital. 1's and 0's - period. There is no frequency to provided distortion, it either transmits or it doesn't and dropped bits are pretty damn rare.

A file streaming at 320kbps (kilo bits per second) again, divide by 8 - Gives you 40Kbps (40 kiloBYTES)

There are 1000 kilobytes in a Mega Byte (actually 1024 ..I wont explain why here

My point is the signal going through the USB cable is like a dribble in a firehose. So data loss is next to impossible...

So why would a better USB be ...umm...better ?

Thanks
 
Want to add a great explanation

USB data is packetized, as are almost all high-speed protocols. That means that data is chopped up into manageable chunks, and each packet gets a header with address information, and most importantly to you, a CRC (Cyclic Redundancy Check.) If a single bit is out of place, the whole packet will be flushed down the bit-bucket. (It is then up to the "upper layer" to decide what to do about it. In an audio streaming device, the expected reaction would be to just forget about it, and try and patch over the gap in data.) Remember that USB is designed to be a data protocol, where it is vitally important that NO corrupt data get through. With data transmission, it is FAR better to discard data than to deliver incorrect data.

I'll repeat that: If a single bit is out of place, the packet is flushed down the toilet.

Moreover, from the cable's perspective, and indeed, the entire USB "stack", a packet from a high-pitched sound is no different from a packet with a low-pitched sound, which in turn is no different from the signal to your scanner, printer, or mouse. It cannot make music sound "warm" or "harsh". It is all just a stream of bits... The cable cannot musically "get in the way" because in USB, there is no such thing as music. Your USB interface delivers packets, nothing more, and if the packets are out of spec, they are dropped. If they are in spec, they go through with 100% accuracy. There is no middle ground.
 
Rob, I've read somewhere that there are USB cables and that there are USB cables. ...Different quality and different performance.
Just sayin'; no real life expertise. {I use a bunch of those, most inexpensive ones, and they all do what they are supposed to do.}

HDMI cables are the same; some are not communicating properly between components, and others do (not necessarily more expensive ones; just better brand, better build).
 
So.... has anyone used one of these & what is there experience with it compared to another cable they have used?
 
NorthStar said:
Rob, I've read somewhere that there are USB cables and that there are USB cables. ...Different quality and different performance.
Just sayin'; no real life expertise. {I use a bunch of those, most inexpensive ones, and they all do what they are supposed to do.}

HDMI cables are the same; some are not communicating properly between components, and others do (not necessarily more expensive ones; just better brand, better build).
Click to expand...

I know...all I am saying is the performance is not rated on quality like an interconnect. It is either passing the packets consistently or not. So a 6 dollar cable (proven) will work just as well as a $260 cable as long as neither one is broken. That's the beauty of digital packets.

Think of a file transfer. You copy a file and one is not NICER or prettier or less than the source file. It is what it is or it isn't. And packet loss is not a common thing unless:
1) The cable is defective
2) The target cannot process the incoming data fast enough

Just saying...and Shark...sorry no, I know nothing of the cable you speak..sorry I hijacked...hopefully someone will answer you !!
 
ohbythebay said:
I know...all I am saying is the performance is not rated on quality like an interconnect. It is either passing the packets consistently or not. So a 6 dollar cable (proven) will work just as well as a $260 cable as long as neither one is broken. That's the beauty of digital packets.

Think of a file transfer. You copy a file and one is not NICER or prettier or less than the source file. It is what it is or it isn't. And packet loss is not a common thing unless:
1) The cable is defective
2) The target cannot process the incoming data fast enough

Just saying...and Shark...sorry no, I know nothing of the cable you speak..sorry I hijacked...hopefully someone will answer you !!
Click to expand...

Gotcha Rob!

* Interconnects; the're just like equalizers, to match with the rest of your gear, and your ears.
 
NorthStar said:
Gotcha Rob!

* Interconnects; the're just like equalizers, to match with the rest of your gear, and your ears.
Click to expand...

Equalizers don't affect dynamics, transparency, three-dimensionality, resolution, dynamic accents, detail, soundstaging, etc.. So pray tell now, how cables are equalizers? In fact, just the opposite.
 
sharkmouth said:
Hi Battles, I see you are using the Light Harmonic usb cable. If you coulod spare the time I was wondering if you could describe the advantages of it over others that you have used, maybe it's sound/signature/tone etc. I have W/World Platinum usb at mo & am about to do a cable overhall as my system is too bright.
Click to expand...


Hi Sharkmouth

I wish I could offer you some specific feedback, but I introduced the LH USB into my system as I was doing a complete cable overhaul/speaker upgrade in my system. When I get back into town I will compare it to the Paul Pang Red USB cable that it replaced an share my thoughts. I had heard so many outstanding things about the LH cable from some trusted sources who have similar systems to mine that I just took the plunge without demoing it first. Ironically, after owning it for less than a month I'm now purchasing the full MSB stack with the UMT+ so I will no longer be using my LH cable or my battery powered CAPS server unless I trade in my UMT a few months to the extent MSB introduces a "reference server" that offers superior playback.

Best,

Battles
 
Battles said:
Hi Sharkmouth

I wish I could offer you some specific feedback, but I introduced the LH USB into my system as I was doing a complete cable overhaul/speaker upgrade in my system. When I get back into town I will compare it to the Paul Pang Red USB cable that it replaced an share my thoughts. I had heard so many outstanding things about the LH cable from some trusted sources who have similar systems to mine that I just took the plunge without demoing it first. Ironically, after owning it for less than a month I'm now purchasing the full MSB stack with the UMT+ so I will no longer be using my LH cable or my battery powered CAPS server unless I trade in my UMT a few months to the extent MSB introduces a "reference server" that offers superior playback.

Best,

Battles
Click to expand...


Thanks for the reply Battles, I could buy it off of you for 1/2 price :D
 
Myles B. Astor said:
Equalizers don't affect dynamics, transparency, three-dimensionality, resolution, dynamic accents, detail, soundstaging, etc.. So pray tell now, how cables are equalizers? In fact, just the opposite.
Click to expand...

I simply disagree with you mister; equalizers introduce all sort of artifacts, intended and non-intended. ...They affect the sound in many ways.
Silver, copper, ... you have various levels of purity. ...Plus the insulation; that too has an effect on sound; it can restrict a pure audio signal flow, it can shield against some external noises (RFI, etc), and it can alter what's on the recording. ...Etc., etc., etc.

Some type of interconnects work nicely with this type of gear and setup (including the loudspeakers), and other type of interconnects sound nicer with those other type of setups.
Smooth is sometimes a good complement to bright, and vice-versa. Each person is different on how they listen and how their sound evolution/preference evolved.
And a wire can certainly be an equalizer, and it is. ...Same as a crossover.
 
NorthStar said:
I simply disagree with you mister; equalizers introduce all sort of artifacts, intended and non-intended. ...They affect the sound in many ways.
Silver, copper, ... you have various levels of purity. ...Plus the insulation; that too has an effect on sound; it can restrict a pure audio signal flow, it can shield against some external noises (RFI, etc), and it can alter what's on the recording. ...Etc., etc., etc.

Some type of interconnects work nicely with this type of gear and setup (including the loudspeakers), and other type of interconnects sound nicer with those other type of setups.
Smooth is sometimes a good complement to bright, and vice-versa. Each person is different on how they listen and how their sound evolution/preference evolved.
And a wire can certainly be an equalizer, and it is. ...Same as a crossover.
Click to expand...

Answer the question Bob. You stated that cables were nothing more than equalizers: "An audio equalizer is a component used to adjust the tone or frequency response of an audio system to achieve the desired sound quality." I specifically asked you how equalizers can improve dynamics,transparency, three-dimensionality, resolution, dynamic accents, detail, soundstaging, etc. that better cables bring? The answer is that equalizers aren't used to correct for those qualities and ergo cables can not be equalizers. Moreso, the better cables work with all systems.

Smooth to bright are complementary? Not according to Gordon. Also, how do you define bright? Is it a FR aberration or is it distortion picked up by and perceived by the ear as "brightness" as defined by Jung and Curl? For me, smooth is the opposite of grainy or gritty.

smooth Sound reproduction having no irritating qualities; free from HF peaks, easy and relaxing to listen to. Effortless. Not necessarily a positive system attribute if accompanied by a slow, uninvolving character.

bright, brilliant The most often misused terms in audio, these describe the degree to which reproduced sound has a hard, crisp edge to it. Brightness relates to the energy content in the 4kHz-8kHz band [my emphasis added because issues in the upper midrange is often attributed to the upper octaves like the old Maggie ribbon). It is not related to output in the extreme-high-frequency range. All live sound has brightness; it is a problem only when it is excessive.

grainy A moderate texturing of reproduced sound. The sonic equivalent of grain in a photograph. Coarser than dry but finer than gritty.

gritty A harsh, coarse-grained texturing of reproduced sound. The continuum of energy seems to be composed of discrete, sharp-edged particles.
 
Myles, I'm not in the mode right now to extrapolate beyond the boundaries of Light Harmonic USB cable, with you.

And I'm not in the mode to be lectured about sound, and its various attributes, by you.

And I'm just not in the mode to answer any of your 'tonality' question. :)
 
Okay ,,,target on me now because

NONE of that applies to a USB cable which has no effect on tonality at all. Its a data cable. Period. 1's and 0's that either ARE or ARE NOT. No rounded edges, no sharp edges, no coloration. So if you spend more than 10 bucks for a USB cable, it is an affectation, not a sonic improvement.

The same cannot be said for interconnects and wires that carry an analog signal. Those can be directly affected by a variety of things such as impendence, noise, grounding, shielding, material...the list goes on...
 
NorthStar said:
Access denied.

Any good (that cable)?

Merry Christmas Matt!
Click to expand...

Bob,

Bruce B. likes it and posted the following:

I've always been under the impression when it comes to digital cables, they either work or they don't work, period! At least this was my thinking for AES/EBU cables. I've never messed around with USB cables or even USB DAC's until a year or so ago because USB was never meant for audio streaming.
My first foray into USB was the Playback Designs USB-X for my MPS-5. I needed to go this route because on a second Native Pyramix machine that I was using for all my DSD editing for Chesky, I didn't have a viable way of playing the files unless I did a realtime sample rate conversion to 176.4
Enter the realm of USB... Since that time, USB has become more mainstream, I've learned the idiosyncrasies of using different USB cables with my PB and Mytek DAC's. It's a whole new ballgame and some can be pretty finicky.
I've had about 5-6 USB cables in here that have been sent by manufacturers for me to try and the Light Harmonic is the only one that I've actually wanted to buy and keep in my system.
The Light Harmonic USB cable comes in 2 forms, single and split. I have the split USB cable and don't ask me what is "split" since I haven't a clue. I thought it was some marketing propaganda.
Let me tell you this cable made me change my mind about digital signal cables. There was no change in instrument timbres or anything in the frequency domain. What did change for me was 2 things. First thing I noticed was the noise level. USB connections in computers, especially laptops are notoriously bad with lots of noise and traffic on the same bus. This is the only cable that was dead silent. No picking up of cell phones, other software programs, wireless keyboard/mouse movements or anything! The brochure says this is a differential USB 2.0 (10Gbit) cable, whatever that means. All I know is it works.
Second thing I noticed was differences in the time domain, the way the spatial information was conveyed. The imaging was better and the soundstage took on another 10'. It's not magnitudes of change, but if I had to put a % on it, it would be about a .5 - 1% change. As most know, getting that last 5% is what separates the men from the boys.
The cables are not cheap.
0.8m = $999
1.6m = $1399
3.8m = $1999

The configurations I've been using are:

Toshiba Tecra laptop running WinXP, Pyramix DSD Native
MacBook running Audirvana+
Desktop running Win7 Pro 64-bit with HQPlayer
---
 
NorthStar said:
Myles, I'm not in the mode right now to extrapolate beyond the boundaries of Light Harmonic USB cable, with you.

And I'm not in the mode to be lectured about sound, and its various attributes, by you.

And I'm just not in the mode to answer any of your 'tonality' question. :)
Click to expand...

Lectured is not the word Bob. You brought the subject up, made a blanket statement and were challenged. The quotes were not from me Bob; they were taken directly from Gordon Holt's Audio Dictionary. Either we all adhere to a common language or any discussion about sound is meaningless.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top