Least expensive and best way to stream music to a DAC???

nicoff said:
That paper is from 1998. And 24 years later the term "jitter" is still being thrown around in audiophile circles as if it were a big deal. Yet another example of the boogeymen that still live in the audiophile world!
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Yes, usually worlds apart from the real one. However, just because a laptop>usb transfer is, in the real word, free of audible boogeymen, doesn't mean there's no place for dedicated (streamer etc) boxes in the shrine. Folks have different wants and needs beyond audible/fidelity, so to each their own. Some users will find such products more user friendly, etc.
For me personally, a large (vs on a box) screen with a physical keyboard (vs say tablet virtual) are desirable and ergonomic, along with the ability to stream anything, regardless of how obscure, on the internet.
Others like to be tethered to whatever their box can/can't do. YMMV.
Different strokes for different folks. Joe was pretty clear, to me, about cost though. We know exactly how that affects worlds/multitudes Just a moment...

cheers,

AJ
 
Is the suggestion here that a $250 streamer sounds as good as a $24,000 streamer?


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Mike said:
Is the suggestion here that a $250 streamer sounds as good as a $24,000 streamer?
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What comes out of Joes DACs will be free of audible noise and "jitter", with that $250 bit transfer device in the chain.
Should have dead silence even with 97+ db speakers...unless some other device adds noise.
Which "stream" sounds as "good/better" etc is up to the beholder. It most certainly won't be because of real jitter, etc, etc. or lack thereof.

cheers,

AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
What comes out of Joes DACs will be free of audible noise and "jitter", with that $250 bit transfer device in the chain.
Should have dead silence even with 97+ db speakers...unless some other device adds noise.
Which "stream" sounds as "good/better" etc is up to the beholder. It most certainly won't be because of real jitter, etc, etc. or lack thereof.

cheers,

AJ
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You may want to talk to John.


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AJ Soundfield said:
Not Jeeves???
Chait?
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Yes, Chait. He was one of 7 that participated in our super server shootout. No, I won’t post the results, WAY too much butt hurt happens, but the differences were clear as day. Same power cord, same USB, plugged into same conditioner, same exact everything.


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Mike said:
Yes, Chait. He was one of 7 that participated in our super server shootout. No, I won’t post the results, WAY too much butt hurt happens, but the differences were clear as day. Same power cord, same USB, plugged into same conditioner, same exact everything.
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I have no doubt about that purely subjective assessment, which is completely unrelated to the questions/discussion of this thread.
My doubt is that there is an iota of evidence that a laptop>$250 bit transfer will have "noise", "jitter", etc, which are verifiable (and dismissible) objective claims.
Joe wasn't asking about $24k streamers, but inexpensive ways to stream anything on net. I think I (and others) addressed both his question and the specious mongering that ensued.
That shootout deserves its own thread!

cheers,

AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
I have no doubt about that purely subjective assessment, which is completely unrelated to the questions/discussion of this thread.
My doubt is that there is an iota of evidence that a laptop>$250 bit transfer will have "noise", "jitter", etc, which are verifiable (and dismissible) objective claims.
Joe wasn't asking about $24k streamers, but inexpensive ways to stream anything on net. I think I (and others) addressed both his question and the specious mongering that ensued.
That shootout deserves its own thread!

cheers,

AJ
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Yes, something simple to feed his new amp/DAC works. I’m curious about the new Lumin U2 mini. Bet it will be great.


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I experienced huge differences in my system based on streaming source. I even experienced major differences day to day, and even by rebooting my nuc running roon. I had been a major skeptic of this prior to my experiences. I wound up with an expensive solution, but my research here and elsewhere pointed toward Lumin as being the way to go from a value perspective. The rest of your system warrants it.
 
A $24,000 streamer? Wow!
The law of diminishing returns certainly applies here. Otherwise, the $24k streamer would have to be 9,500% better than the $250 one!
 
nicoff said:
A $24,000 streamer? Wow!
The law of diminishing returns certainly applies here. Otherwise, the $24k streamer would have to be 9,500% better than the $250 one!
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People with the means are willing to achieve small gains at great costs. Not just in audio but in many hobbies.

What's the ratio for $250k speakers, or $180k amps, or $100k DACs, and so on.
 
nicoff said:
A $24,000 streamer? Wow!
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In a "Least expensive and best way to stream music to a DAC???" thread.
Next up, a thread lamenting why younger folks have zero interest in "High end" audio and how inexpensive "Mid-Fi" stuff creates noise, jitter, etc drama inside some heads.
Poor Joe, he should have known better! :P

cheers,

AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
In a "Least expensive and best way to stream music to a DAC???" thread.
Next up, a thread lamenting why younger folks have zero interest in "High end" audio and how inexpensive "Mid-Fi" stuff creates noise, jitter, etc drama inside some heads.
Poor Joe, he should have known better! :P

cheers,

AJ
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LoL

I know but there’s been a lot great recommendations, thank you
 
AJ Soundfield said:
In a "Least expensive and best way to stream music to a DAC???" thread.
Next up, a thread lamenting why younger folks have zero interest in "High end" audio and how inexpensive "Mid-Fi" stuff creates noise, jitter, etc drama inside some heads.
Poor Joe, he should have known better! :P

cheers,

AJ
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The point was, there is a big difference sonically between a $250 streamer and a $24,000 streamer. But for those searching for a budget streamer, rock on.


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The conversion of Ethernet packet based data to AES or USB should be a super simple task any low powered computer can handle. I’d love to hear a good streamer in my system and compare it to what I’ve built. Hard to do in the boonies.
 
I always get confused reading these threads and hope some will indulge me. Confused as to just what class(es) of devices "we" are talking about.

When we say "streamer" and not "streamer/player" I imagine we're NOT talking about something with a dac built in.

The input side is easy; I assume the input is ethernet (or wifi if necessary) from the home network.

But what about the output? For connection to a dac -- direct "digital" connection we're talking usb or some flavor of s/pdif or maybe optical?

But then there is another class of product, e.g. the Roon Nucleus, who's output is on the home network and thus 'serves' or some say 'streams' to a streamer/player.

My personal interest is only in this latter class of products, as my Naim ND555 is a "streamer/player" and while it accepts an s/pdif input I'm happy to use its streamer front-end. It's here that I'm really interested in learning which products might provide the best networked music connection to my streamer/player.
 
Bart001 said:
I always get confused reading these threads and hope some will indulge me. Confused as to just what class(es) of devices "we" are talking about.

When we say "streamer" and not "streamer/player" I imagine we're NOT talking about something with a dac built in.

The input side is easy; I assume the input is ethernet (or wifi if necessary) from the home network.

But what about the output? For connection to a dac -- direct "digital" connection we're talking usb or some flavor of s/pdif or maybe optical?

But then there is another class of product, e.g. the Roon Nucleus, who's output is on the home network and thus 'serves' or some say 'streams' to a streamer/player.

My personal interest is only in this latter class of products, as my Naim ND555 is a "streamer/player" and while it accepts an s/pdif input I'm happy to use its streamer front-end. It's here that I'm really interested in learning which products might provide the best networked music connection to my streamer/player.
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Bart, I prefer to use the term “Network Transport” for a device which streams music from LAN/WAN services to an external DAC and “streamer” as a device that is all-in-one (streamer/DAC, like Lumin X1).

As for our ND555’s, let me save you the trouble. After a lot of conversations with technical folks at Naim UK, the ethernet + NAIM app is their recommended combo (best sounding). The BNC/SPDIF connections were not designed/implemented to the level of the ethernet connection.

Also, in a shootout, the NAIM Uniti Core beat my Synology 1812+ NAS.

I was able to substantially improve on things by adding the Nordost QNET + Nordost QSource + Premium LEMO cable. I’m using a Shunyata Sigma NRv2 power cable plugged into the AudioQuest Niagara 7000 (it’s closest to where the QNET is). Cables are Shunyata Omega Ethernet and Wireworld Starlight 8 ethernet. I was able to go back and forth quickly between the QNET/QSource and my Netgear switch and heard a dramatic improvement. If I didn’t, I would have taken it back to the store. But I heard a substantial improvement and had to order another setup for the store!

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Mike said:
The point was, there is a big difference sonically between a $250 streamer and a $24,000 streamer.
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I understood your point, but I also understood Joe's point was asking for the least expensive and best way to stream music to a DAC...and that's all I was answering, including objective objections to my specific suggested method.
More that one way to "stream music to a DAC", a "streamer" stand alone box being one of those options.
Yeah $24k ones too. Beauty being in the eye of the beholder ;)
 
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