Lefisc
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With the site being “under construction” I understand that my brilliant, outstanding, incredible posts were kind of lost… and so where the replies. So let me try to reconstruct the posts: In other words, "This time for sure, Rocky!"
I am hesitate to write some reviews because many of the people on this site are professionals in the field and are sometimes connected, one way or another, to many of the audio companies. For those reasons, and that civility, negative reviews or comparisons are actually hard to find.
As a consumer I root for all companies to put out good products, I am happy to pass on what worked for me and what didn’t. That is the case here.
For the last several years I have used Transparent Audio interconnects and speaker wire. They replaced my Straight Wire when I rearranged my room and lost my SW dealer. I have dealt with TA directly, calling and asking questions and they have been very helpful.
Primarily I used balanced cables of their MM variety where I could: Pre-amp to amps; CD player and FM Tuner in. Since there is only one balanced input on the 707, I have used that for the SACD player mostly, but also for the FM tuner.
When I got the Krell Cipher, I connected that with Krell Cast Cables, primarily because I was able to keep my Tuner connected by the single balanced cable. But I also hooked up a second, 5.1 input to the Cipher using Transparent cable for the left and right and Maestro cable for all others. The people from Krell have been so helpful and supportive and I thought if they encouraged this, it was worth a shot. Surprising, for me, there is NO WAY one can sue the Cast outputs on the Cipher for the left and right of the 5.1 sound, you MUST use single ended cables. You can’t even use the balanced outs.
I then installed the Krell Cast cables to my left, right and center speaker.
In my opinion, without a doubt, the original configuration using Transparent balanced was better. The bass was clearer and not boomy, the details of the high end were clearer and more pronounced and the upper midrange was smoother.
In fact, I had EQed my system so that I could clearly hear and understand the center channel, which carries most of the dialogue. When using the Cast, I actually had trouble understanding the center channel and made it louder because the bass was so prevalent the center was drowned out.
Again, this hobby is fun for me, not my profession. I had the Cast cables on for 80 or so hours of use, perhaps a reviewer would have given them more time. NOT being the professional, I was NOT enjoying them so I switched back.
I did run the Cipher with Krell cast and single ended transparent. The bass was instantly and noticeable better with the Transparent. The upper mid-range almost sounded distorted with the Krell, but there is a caveat.
The Cipher, after about 30 hours of use, failed and refused to turn or give me back my Bill Evans SACD. So I cannot give you a complete review of that component, but I have run everything else I had through the Cast and the results were consistent.
If I were so needlessly want to spend money, I would go up a level for the better Transparent.
Dewster wrote:
Barry,
Thanks for a great write up.. Image: http://www.postcount.net/forum/images/smilies/encouragement.png
********************
Thanks GREATLY for your support.
I often want to know what other people think of a product, and frankly, I make that decision every day. Do I buy Tide or Cheer, Colgate or Crest, Frosted Flakes or Honey Nut Cheerios, Hagan-Daas or Ben and Jerry’s.
Hagan-Daas Chocolate Chocolate Chip wins every time.
But, in discussing this, I was asked, by one person, NOT to mention the problems I had because it would reflect badly on the manufacturer. It didn’t stop me, in fact it saddened me. We have a great opportunity to share here and help each other out.
I actually have a huge long story about this but you guys are right. Every system is different and different units can add or subtract to the actual sound.
I knew someone who literally spent 4 times what I had on a system, but didn’t match anything up and bought the wrong speakers ( the electrostatic Divas) for the wrong room. He couldn’t understand “matching” and he thought by spending the most he would automatically get the “best.” That is why I always mention what I have. I figured in this case that a Krell CD player attached to a Krell pre amp that as attached to a Krell amp would give the Krell wires their greatest chance to shine.
Remind me to tell you about his system. It’s actually a sad story.
Dewster wrote:
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Oh do tell Barry..
DLP wrote:
I'm a Honey-Nut Cheerios kinda' guy.
*************
I had a Mark Levenson system at the time and their premiere one: A pre-amp, a stereo amp (not w2 monos) and Thiel speakers. When surround sound came out I got a matching proceed PAV, a Three channel Proceed Amp and a Thiel middle and Powerplane rear speakers. It sounded great. This was for a 14 by 18 room with high ceilings.
Bob was a business contact who made at least 10 times what I did. Maybe twenty.
Bob heard my system and got rid of his complete Macintosh system which included their speakers. His room was about 12 by 25 foot with a VERY low ceiling.
He first bought the Divas….but for a room that had a low ceiling and, although much bigger than mine, much narrower, so there was very little separation.
He bought two EXPENSIVE Krell STEREO amps. Not two mono that he needed, two stereo ones. Krell would have bridged them to give him the power he wanted but he had the speaker salesman do convoluted wiring on them (with radio shack wires). They sounded terrible and underpowered.
But it gets worse.
When he went to surround he bought a box speaker for the center, that sounded nothing like the Divas of course. And they were all so close together. He took a stereo Mac amp and did similar “mono” rewiring for it.
For the rears he bought an expensive Bryston two channel amps and then RADIO SHACK speakers. The salesman told him that the amps were important for the rear, not the speakers and he bought it.
Then, in that 12 foot wide space he bought a large 60 inch Pioneer rear projection TV. And he squeezed in a sub-woofer too.
Please remember the low ceiling!
There were a few other mis-matches. But he was actually upset when he heard my system the last time and it sound better than his. The Divas with those amps, correctly configured and in the right size room would have sound great. But I don’t think that they were ever “made” for home theatre.
Mike finishes it off:
Barry - great write up! I agree with others....don't ever feel you shouldn't post your views. That's why I started the forum! Share knowledge, opinions and discoveries. I've been curious about the 600e's. Seems like a real sweet spot in the Krell lineup.
***************
My Krell 600 review is up next.
I am hesitate to write some reviews because many of the people on this site are professionals in the field and are sometimes connected, one way or another, to many of the audio companies. For those reasons, and that civility, negative reviews or comparisons are actually hard to find.
As a consumer I root for all companies to put out good products, I am happy to pass on what worked for me and what didn’t. That is the case here.
For the last several years I have used Transparent Audio interconnects and speaker wire. They replaced my Straight Wire when I rearranged my room and lost my SW dealer. I have dealt with TA directly, calling and asking questions and they have been very helpful.
Primarily I used balanced cables of their MM variety where I could: Pre-amp to amps; CD player and FM Tuner in. Since there is only one balanced input on the 707, I have used that for the SACD player mostly, but also for the FM tuner.
When I got the Krell Cipher, I connected that with Krell Cast Cables, primarily because I was able to keep my Tuner connected by the single balanced cable. But I also hooked up a second, 5.1 input to the Cipher using Transparent cable for the left and right and Maestro cable for all others. The people from Krell have been so helpful and supportive and I thought if they encouraged this, it was worth a shot. Surprising, for me, there is NO WAY one can sue the Cast outputs on the Cipher for the left and right of the 5.1 sound, you MUST use single ended cables. You can’t even use the balanced outs.
I then installed the Krell Cast cables to my left, right and center speaker.
In my opinion, without a doubt, the original configuration using Transparent balanced was better. The bass was clearer and not boomy, the details of the high end were clearer and more pronounced and the upper midrange was smoother.
In fact, I had EQed my system so that I could clearly hear and understand the center channel, which carries most of the dialogue. When using the Cast, I actually had trouble understanding the center channel and made it louder because the bass was so prevalent the center was drowned out.
Again, this hobby is fun for me, not my profession. I had the Cast cables on for 80 or so hours of use, perhaps a reviewer would have given them more time. NOT being the professional, I was NOT enjoying them so I switched back.
I did run the Cipher with Krell cast and single ended transparent. The bass was instantly and noticeable better with the Transparent. The upper mid-range almost sounded distorted with the Krell, but there is a caveat.
The Cipher, after about 30 hours of use, failed and refused to turn or give me back my Bill Evans SACD. So I cannot give you a complete review of that component, but I have run everything else I had through the Cast and the results were consistent.
If I were so needlessly want to spend money, I would go up a level for the better Transparent.
Dewster wrote:
Barry,
Thanks for a great write up.. Image: http://www.postcount.net/forum/images/smilies/encouragement.png
********************
Thanks GREATLY for your support.
I often want to know what other people think of a product, and frankly, I make that decision every day. Do I buy Tide or Cheer, Colgate or Crest, Frosted Flakes or Honey Nut Cheerios, Hagan-Daas or Ben and Jerry’s.
Hagan-Daas Chocolate Chocolate Chip wins every time.
But, in discussing this, I was asked, by one person, NOT to mention the problems I had because it would reflect badly on the manufacturer. It didn’t stop me, in fact it saddened me. We have a great opportunity to share here and help each other out.
I actually have a huge long story about this but you guys are right. Every system is different and different units can add or subtract to the actual sound.
I knew someone who literally spent 4 times what I had on a system, but didn’t match anything up and bought the wrong speakers ( the electrostatic Divas) for the wrong room. He couldn’t understand “matching” and he thought by spending the most he would automatically get the “best.” That is why I always mention what I have. I figured in this case that a Krell CD player attached to a Krell pre amp that as attached to a Krell amp would give the Krell wires their greatest chance to shine.
Remind me to tell you about his system. It’s actually a sad story.
Dewster wrote:
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
Oh do tell Barry..

DLP wrote:
I'm a Honey-Nut Cheerios kinda' guy.

*************
I had a Mark Levenson system at the time and their premiere one: A pre-amp, a stereo amp (not w2 monos) and Thiel speakers. When surround sound came out I got a matching proceed PAV, a Three channel Proceed Amp and a Thiel middle and Powerplane rear speakers. It sounded great. This was for a 14 by 18 room with high ceilings.
Bob was a business contact who made at least 10 times what I did. Maybe twenty.
Bob heard my system and got rid of his complete Macintosh system which included their speakers. His room was about 12 by 25 foot with a VERY low ceiling.
He first bought the Divas….but for a room that had a low ceiling and, although much bigger than mine, much narrower, so there was very little separation.
He bought two EXPENSIVE Krell STEREO amps. Not two mono that he needed, two stereo ones. Krell would have bridged them to give him the power he wanted but he had the speaker salesman do convoluted wiring on them (with radio shack wires). They sounded terrible and underpowered.
But it gets worse.
When he went to surround he bought a box speaker for the center, that sounded nothing like the Divas of course. And they were all so close together. He took a stereo Mac amp and did similar “mono” rewiring for it.
For the rears he bought an expensive Bryston two channel amps and then RADIO SHACK speakers. The salesman told him that the amps were important for the rear, not the speakers and he bought it.
Then, in that 12 foot wide space he bought a large 60 inch Pioneer rear projection TV. And he squeezed in a sub-woofer too.
Please remember the low ceiling!
There were a few other mis-matches. But he was actually upset when he heard my system the last time and it sound better than his. The Divas with those amps, correctly configured and in the right size room would have sound great. But I don’t think that they were ever “made” for home theatre.
Mike finishes it off:
Barry - great write up! I agree with others....don't ever feel you shouldn't post your views. That's why I started the forum! Share knowledge, opinions and discoveries. I've been curious about the 600e's. Seems like a real sweet spot in the Krell lineup.
***************
My Krell 600 review is up next.