It's really only about the music.

MusicDirector

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After walking away from the vinyl format once realizing I could not handle it after wakening to realizing that I was not listening to music as much as to the gear and being in over my head. The article about becoming an audiophile inspired me in a way. As I took some time to evaluate my gear the other day I realized two things:

I only have two pieces that allow me to run with the "high-end" crowd here or anywhere, if you will. My Paradigm Studio 100s and the Ortofon 2M Bronze as near as I can tell.
Realizing this I came to an entirely different conclusion about it all. That's the second point and actually the most important one of all!
At the end of the day, it’s only about the music. I think all of us, including myself as I stated at the top are guilty of forgetting about the music at least on occasion. Inspired by the article recently posted here regarding being an audiophile, it brought me back around to the realistic core of being. We are essentially, at least in part, spiritual beings somehow, in some sense. Music effects us all whether we realize it or not. In my experience of the years, including what I have been told about the younger years before my full understanding, I’ve always had a connection to music without high-end or even mid-fi or any gear at all! I think the same holds true for just about everyone on the planet. That connection has no native levels of strength outside of what we make of it ourselves. In other words, it’s not different with someone who has high-end gear or someone with mid-fi, low-end or even any gear at all! No kind of gear will change it either. A person with high-end gear does not have any stronger connection to music than a person with mid-fi or low-end gear. The connection we humans have with or feel with music is separate from the gear. I’ve been involved with music in nearly every aspect and not once did my connection change with any of it. The only time it “felt” any different was/is when playing an instrument, but that again is a personal experience for all of us, each to one’s own. The connection then is still even keel, it doesn’t become any stronger than the next person’s connection, it’s just a different way or type of connection. The point is nurturing that connection. Yes, as with anything it is possible that if we do not nurture it, it can die. I never would have succeeded in my radio gig had I not been nurturing my connection with music all the years before and continued to do so.(The type of show it was required a keen connection or awareness of what to play because of the nature of it, not because of some policy. Music was chosen based on the average effect it would have on the audience and those working on the show had to be keenly aware of it and that awareness comes only by nurturing one’s connection to music and it is not exclusive to any one or special group of people. I’m inherently no more able to do it then the next person. I was only chosen out of a pool and after trial run because I always nurtured my connection to music in some way perhaps more consistently than the others in the pool at the time or something, so realistically anyone could do that job if they wanted to and put their being to it). I would not have been able to do many of the things I have with music had I not done so.

This led me (a ways back actually)to also consider the arguments about this format is better than that format to be ludicris at the end of the day, especially if the element of how one connects to the music is involved. So somebody prefers vinyl over CD or CD over Hi-rez or streaming over CD, etc. It doesn’t make a bit of difference to one’s connection with music. So at the end of the day, I’ll listen to the music in whatever format I choose (in my case favoring CD) and on whatever gear is on hand and still have the same connection with music. This is the same for everyone. So for me personally, all this stuff about a $4000 RCM cleans records while that $600 RCM does nothing but perhaps ruin them or this $2000 nude microline needle/cart is better than that $400 one over there or that $3500 phono preamp is required to give you better sound while that $600 job could not possibly work at all, etc. It’s all rubbish to me now. If it works, great, if not, then it doesn’t and get a new one of whatever it is. It doesn’t matter if it’s a high-end multi-thousand dollar piece of gear or a $20 dollar piece that works for you. It doesn’t matter if the system you are using cost $100k or$100, if you are feeling that connection with the music, then there you are and you should be allowed to enjoy it without someone telling you that you aren’t just because your gear isn’t high-end or cost $XXX. It's one thing to be pursuing gear to either solve a frightfully annoying sound problem or if your just upgrading or trying to get a brand new system. That's entirely different then if you are just into the gear chasing the non-existent perfect sound,(or keeping up with the jones as many in official audiophile clubs do) then you are not listening to music and nurturing your connection to it. You can't be, your busy listening to the gear. That's what happened to me with getting back into vinyl. I ended up not listening to music anymore. I was just hunting problems and practicing frustration and confusion and listening to people trying to deny my listening and what I was or was not hearing. If you find yourself in this position, you should take a moment and stop to smell the flowers as they say. Doing so you may find that you have already attained the sound you want and now you can get back to nurturing your connection to music. All this is just the way I see it and may be different from anyone else's. ~Eric
 
This is a great post Eric; it's awesome that you took the time to share your deep music impressions.
I immensely appreciate reading your thoughts.

Thank you Bob. This is how I started in life and like everyone else, got lost along the way on occasion. It just like, you go out the same way you came in essentially. I just think that music is one of the most essential building blocks of us humans and one of the most powerful forces known. Just look at all the ways music is used throughout time and history in every land. Just think about how many other places where high-end or even mid-fi or what have you is not even available! Think about how scary and horrible it would be if those who did not have even mid-fi gear were not allowed to listen to music!!! Music is a force in and of itself almost.
 
I went through the same type of thing as well Eric, only the other way around. I got so immersed in all things digital; what kind of server to use, which music program to run, upsampling or not, which OS sounds better, what DAC works best for me, do I use a filter, yadda, yadda, yadda... It was driving me nutty! I decided to buy a turntable after being out of the analog loop for over twenty years. Vinyl made me sit through an entire side without pushing a button to advance to the next song, or another song, or, or, or... I started enjoying the music again. Now I find myself looking for new artists and expanding my vinyl library and actually enjoying my time sitting back and getting into the music instead of cursing the mechanical side of it. Vinyl pulled me out of the gear hole I was in and I'm much happier now.

So yes, it's not really about this format or that format but which format allows you to enjoy the music more.
 
I went through the same type of thing as well Eric, only the other way around. I got so immersed in all things digital; what kind of server to use, which music program to run, upsampling or not, which OS sounds better, what DAC works best for me, do I use a filter, yadda, yadda, yadda... It was driving me nutty! I decided to buy a turntable after being out of the analog loop for over twenty years. Vinyl made me sit through an entire side without pushing a button to advance to the next song, or another song, or, or, or... I started enjoying the music again. Now I find myself looking for new artists and expanding my vinyl library and actually enjoying my time sitting back and getting into the music instead of cursing the mechanical side of it. Vinyl pulled me out of the gear hole I was in and I'm much happier now.

So yes, it's not really about this format or that format but which format allows you to enjoy the music more.

Excellent!
 
I went through the same type of thing as well Eric, only the other way around. I got so immersed in all things digital; what kind of server to use, which music program to run, upsampling or not, which OS sounds better, what DAC works best for me, do I use a filter, yadda, yadda, yadda... It was driving me nutty! I decided to buy a turntable after being out of the analog loop for over twenty years. Vinyl made me sit through an entire side without pushing a button to advance to the next song, or another song, or, or, or... I started enjoying the music again. Now I find myself looking for new artists and expanding my vinyl library and actually enjoying my time sitting back and getting into the music instead of cursing the mechanical side of it. Vinyl pulled me out of the gear hole I was in and I'm much happier now.

So yes, it's not really about this format or that format but which format allows you to enjoy the music more.

Yes, it can happen with digital as well as any format. We get locked up in the gear as you pointed out until we no longer hear the music, but we don't know that we are not hearing it for quite some time. Sadly, it's during that time that we suffer, only like high blood pressure, we don't know we are suffering until we are somehow awakened to the fact. I happen to be one of those people that can sit down and listen to an entire CD all the way through without clicking buttons. I guess it's just an aspect of self-discipline I have probably something to do with how I was raised or something, I don't know. I've just always done it with both CDs and vinyl. Maybe I'm just old school to the core.
 
Eric
Thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts. I agree with you that owning high end gear is not essential to connect with music. In fact many of us developed our love of music with transistor radios under our pillows or hearing a school choir perform some tunes. I enjoy listening to our whole house system when my wife and I are doing things around the house or as background when we have company. I still take note of what is playing and get lost in the lyrics or music.

Where I disagree with you somewhat is that I believe a quality set-up can enhance the listening experience. It is no different from attending live concerts. I have seen the same artist(s) perform virtually the same playlist in two different venues and due to the sound system or set-iup come away with vastly different experiences. When you can hear into a recording, the little nuance of the fingers on the strings, the artist breathing , real body of a piano, these may enhance the experience and the connection to the music we all desire.

I still enjoy music in my car or listening on my iPhone/iPod but I am sorry some of those tracks can be a audio epiphany on a great set-up.

As far as arguing over formats you are correct it really doesn't matter. We all have our preferences and whichever one allows you to find and play the most music you enjoy should be the goal. It doesn't bother me that others prefer a different source, just don't tell me my choice is wrong for me. The winner isn't the one with the most music, it is the one who always as something they want to listen to.

There is virtually no justification or making sense for the high prices of audio gear. That does not make it wrong for someone to purchase it. It is no different from cars, watches, jewelry or homes.
 
Eric
Thanks for taking the time to write down your thoughts. I agree with you that owning high end gear is not essential to connect with music. In fact many of us developed our love of music with transistor radios under our pillows or hearing a school choir perform some tunes. I enjoy listening to our whole house system when my wife and I are doing things around the house or as background when we have company. I still take note of what is playing and get lost in the lyrics or music.

Where I disagree with you somewhat is that I believe a quality set-up can enhance the listening experience. It is no different from attending live concerts. I have seen the same artist(s) perform virtually the same playlist in two different venues and due to the sound system or set-iup come away with vastly different experiences. When you can hear into a recording, the little nuance of the fingers on the strings, the artist breathing , real body of a piano, these may enhance the experience and the connection to the music we all desire.

I still enjoy music in my car or listening on my iPhone/iPod but I am sorry some of those tracks can be a audio epiphany on a great set-up.

As far as arguing over formats you are correct it really doesn't matter. We all have our preferences and whichever one allows you to find and play the most music you enjoy should be the goal. It doesn't bother me that others prefer a different source, just don't tell me my choice is wrong for me. The winner isn't the one with the most music, it is the one who always as something they want to listen to.

There is virtually no justification or making sense for the high prices of audio gear. That does not make it wrong for someone to purchase it. It is no different from cars, watches, jewelry or homes.

Live music is a completely different animal and cannot be compared or used as a standard against one's home system, etc. Sure a "quality" set-up can/could enhance the listening experience, but who and what defines "quality"? There is nothing wrong with anyone purchasing any audio gear they want within their means, high dollar, low dollar, whatever, but as you said about formats, don't tell me or anyone else that they are wrong in their choice of gear because it is not the same or of different cost in either direction or because you did or did not like something about it, etc. It's all in the ears of the beholder. It's also 99.9% dependent on the recording or source. My meager system (compared to 99% of the folks on this forum alone) does at times allow me to hear the fingers on the fret board or the breathing of the vocalist and that depends almost entirely on the quality of the recording. This is something no amount of, type of or price of gear can fix or make different. That said though does any of that ability matter to feeling or connecting with the music or indeed, even enjoying it? I don't believe it does. Hearing those details can be interesting and fun, but they are not essential to the message of the music, just enjoying the music itself or to really connecting.
 
Live music is a completely different animal and cannot be compared or used as a standard against one's home system, etc. Sure a "quality" set-up can/could enhance the listening experience, but who and what defines "quality"? There is nothing wrong with anyone purchasing any audio gear they want within their means, high dollar, low dollar, whatever, but as you said about formats, don't tell me or anyone else that they are wrong in their choice of gear because it is not the same or of different cost in either direction or because you did or did not like something about it, etc. It's all in the ears of the beholder. It's also 90% dependent on the recording or source. My meager system (compared to 99% of the folks on this forum alone) does at times allow me to hear the fingers on the fret board or the breathing of the vocalist and that depends almost entirely on the quality of the recording. This is something no amount of, type of or price of gear can fix or make different. That said though does any of that ability matter to feeling or connecting with the music or indeed, even enjoying it? I don't believe it does. Hearing those details can be interesting and fun, but they are not essential to the message of the music, just enjoying the music itself or to really connecting.

I wasn't comparing Live music to a home set-up. I was attempting to say that hearing good sound at venue A could better connect you with the music than hearing that same artist perform thru a poor sound system at Venue B. If you do not accept that premise then I am not sure I understand what you mean by "connecting". You summarize your point by saying:

Sound appreciation and owning a great hi-fi definitely aren't essential to enjoy tunes or connect with or feel the music. One merely needs to simply connect with or feel the music first, the sound will always come in second place.

"I" would restate that as "Owning a great hi-fi is not essential to enjoy tunes or connect with or feel the music. The artists performance is more important than the sound quality, the media, or the gear it is played on."
 
I wasn't comparing Live music to a home set-up. I was attempting to say that hearing good sound at venue A could better connect you with the music than hearing that same artist perform thru a poor sound system at Venue B. If you do not accept that premise then I am not sure I understand what you mean by "connecting". You summarize your point by saying:

Sound appreciation and owning a great hi-fi definitely aren't essential to enjoy tunes or connect with or feel the music. One merely needs to simply connect with or feel the music first, the sound will always come in second place.

"I" would restate that as "Owning a great hi-fi is not essential to enjoy tunes or connect with or feel the music. The artists performance is more important than the sound quality, the media, or the gear it is played on."

Oh, my error. I see, so your saying that hearing music over a poor sound system live or in home, etc. can interfere with one's connecting to the music. Well, yes it can on a superficial level, no question. On a deeper level it has almost no bearing. Having said that, if it's a situation where the sound is so poor that one is missing pieces or something then that can be a total turn off and there would be no reason to endure that.
What I mean by "sound appreciation" is the pursuit of perfection and the worry of expenditure on pricey gear in a fleeting attempt to achieve it. Just decent sound is the minimum required. If someone wants to go further and they have the means, then it's up to them entirely, but it should not be pressed on others.
 
Eric, have you ever heard of an audio website called Ultra-High End? ... http://www.ultrahighendreview.com/

I believe they had sort of a public/private forum at one point (Kal Rubinson was a member among several well known high audio profiles), and the site was mainly run by Steve Bruzonsky, an attorney, and also co-founder/main owner and administrator of the AVS Forum (back in 1996-98, but no more now; just a regular member) along with David Bott, who is still the owner/administrator.
Steve is also a member over at WBF (but mainly passive; inactive).

You've probably heard of WBF?
 
Oh, my error. I see, so your saying that hearing music over a poor sound system live or in home, etc. can interfere with one's connecting to the music. Well, yes it can on a superficial level, no question. On a deeper level it has almost no bearing. Having said that, if it's a situation where the sound is so poor that one is missing pieces or something then that can be a total turn off and there would be no reason to endure that.
What I mean by "sound appreciation" is the pursuit of perfection and the worry of expenditure on pricey gear in a fleeting attempt to achieve it. Just decent sound is the minimum required. If someone wants to go further and they have the means, then it's up to them entirely, but it should not be pressed on others.

Boy did you have me fooled. I thought by starting this thread you wanted to discuss whether it is important to spend a lot of money to enjoy music, but from your two responses to my posts all you want to do it argue. I guess I could have rewritten my statement to change the word "great" to "expensive" but then I am guessing that you are the only one who didn't understand what I was saying especially since I used the "exact" word you did.

That is it for me in this thread. Take someone else's responses out of context from now on.
 
Lol Jim, you're not up to the challenge?

* You're not the only one; takes a lot of patience and dedicated love sometimes. ...Most people (99%) don't have that in audio forums.
The exception is here though, at the Shark.

It's not an easy world, our audio world. We might think that music reunites people universally, and that would be true, but the gear to reproduce it is a battlefield, a war zone! :D

_______________ The true reason why some of us get banned sometimes here and there is because some people take life way too seriously and cannot enjoy other's humor, and respect their opinion.
Not a good way to live the very few years we have on this planet if you ask me.

Yeah, lets just enjoy the music and everything else in and around it. :audiophile:
:entertaining::umbrella: :hungry: :dancing::inlove::kiss::singing::bananamouse::bananaskip::bananasplit::superbanana::woot::tumbleweed::exciting::satisfying::lookatthat::buzz::signhere:
 
Because of the time, research, and money I have invested in what I consider to be a high quality stereo system, I sleep better at night knowing I am listening to all the music as the recording artist intended. Life is to short to cut myself out of hearing all the music.
 
Eric, have you ever heard of an audio website called Ultra-High End? ... Ultra High-End Audio and Home Theater Review |

I believe they had sort of a public/private forum at one point (Kal Rubinson was a member among several well known high audio profiles), and the site was mainly run by Steve Bruzonsky, an attorney, and also co-founder/main owner and administrator of the AVS Forum (back in 1996-98, but no more now; just a regular member) along with David Bott, who is still the owner/administrator.
Steve is also a member over at WBF (but mainly passive; inactive).

You've probably heard of WBF?

I've never heard of Ultrahighenreview or WBF. Not interested either.
 
Boy did you have me fooled. I thought by starting this thread you wanted to discuss whether it is important to spend a lot of money to enjoy music, but from your two responses to my posts all you want to do it argue. I guess I could have rewritten my statement to change the word "great" to "expensive" but then I am guessing that you are the only one who didn't understand what I was saying especially since I used the "exact" word you did.

That is it for me in this thread. Take someone else's responses out of context from now on.

Who's arguing? I was just trying to tie in what you were saying to what I was thinking. You could have just explained further to me or something if you fell I was still not understanding you. Your the one who wants to make argument judging by your response.
 
Lol Jim, you're not up to the challenge?

* You're not the only one; takes a lot of patience and dedicated love sometimes. ...Most people (99%) don't have that in audio forums.
The exception is here though, at the Shark.

It's not an easy world, our audio world. We might think that music reunites people universally, and that would be true, but the gear to reproduce it is a battlefield, a war zone! :D

_______________ The true reason why some of us get banned sometimes here and there is because some people take life way too seriously and cannot enjoy other's humor, and respect their opinion.
Not a good way to live the very few years we have on this planet if you ask me.

Yeah, lets just enjoy the music and everything else in and around it. :audiophile:
:entertaining::umbrella: :hungry: :dancing::inlove::kiss::singing::bananamouse::bananaskip::bananasplit::superbanana::woot::tumbleweed::exciting::satisfying::lookatthat::buzz::signhere:

Very profound Bob!!!
 
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