It all sounds the same

Kingrex

Kingrex

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Joined
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Seattle Washington USA
Do you ever find that all the tweaks you do to extract better sound work. You get it a little better step by step. However after a day or so, it all sounds great, but you really don't notice the change you made the other day. Does that make sense. My stereo sound great. No complaints. However I can't stop myself from doing a little more to extract as much as possible. The efforts seem to pay off when I do some back and forth analysis, but after the dust settles I still have a great sounding setup. Nothing added, nothing lost. Kind of makes me wonder why I keep fiddling. I do find satisfaction, but at what cost. Some tweaks are not all the inexpensive.
 
Men are fixers by nature even if it isn’t broke. Just embrace your primeval heritage and enjoy the fun of tweaking.
 
I’ll be the first to admit, the voodoo makes me crazy. But damn, most of it works. Resonance control, grounding, isolation, vibration control, even fuses and cable lifters on my carpet, damn it all, it works. I’m the biggest skeptic when it comes to the voodoo. I remember one time going to Paul’s for a demo of the Shun Mook record clamp. He was switching between it and the stock VPI one while the record was playing. Couldn’t believe the difference. A record clamp! I’ll never forget trying after market fuses on an amp. Damn, again, it made an improvement. Vibration control under digital, huge improvement.

At home, I’m not much of a fiddler. I have some resonance control under my digital though.
 
Just posted almost at the same time something related to what your saying.

In short, yes to all comments on post replies thus far


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Kingrex said:
Do you ever find that all the tweaks you do to extract better sound work. You get it a little better step by step. However after a day or so, it all sounds great, but you really don't notice the change you made the other day. Does that make sense. My stereo sound great. No complaints. However I can't stop myself from doing a little more to extract as much as possible. The efforts seem to pay off when I do some back and forth analysis, but after the dust settles I still have a great sounding setup. Nothing added, nothing lost. Kind of makes me wonder why I keep fiddling. I do find satisfaction, but at what cost. Some tweaks are not all the inexpensive.
Click to expand...

Try taking them out and see if you hear a material difference.

Ken
 
I think we are conditioned to hear improvements if we spend the time and money to try something new. I put in some very, very expensive interconnects from my pre to my amps and thought I heard significant improvements; sounds in the music I hadn't noticed before leapt out of my speakers. I was impressed, to say the least. I then put my interconnects back in and listened to the same music, listening for those sounds and lo and behold, they were presented in all their glory.
 
Interconnects are a fuss unto their own. For me they seem to be the least gain for the most money. I spent $2400 (list $3500) on Inakustik NF2404 air and did not hear any significant difference from my $250 Transition audio. That was in the preamp to amp position. I had the same result in the DAC to preamp position. I did have a big shift for improvement with my Genesis in the DAC to preamp position. I have gone back and forth with these changes a few times. I also put the genesis from the pre to the amps. I did not like the Genesis as much as the Inakustik. It was a little too thin or bright. Not sure which. The Inakustik was a little thicker, more tape like. Neither of those multi thousand dollar cables were much different at all than the $250 cable in the pre to amp position. Only the Genesis in the DAC to pre location was there a noticeable shift. Yes the Inakustik is better than the $250 cable. It is more clear and coherent. It's just a lot of money. $3500 on other changes usually yields more result.

I just got the Mojo Audio Mystique V3 DAC. It was a review sample so it was more like $4500. That was a big gain. Even so, a few weeks later and my digital front end sounds great, but I remember it sounding great before. If I put my old DAC back in and booted my server from the Win 7 OS with JRiver, I would defiantly notice a reduction in performance. Same as if I pulled out my Inakustic speaker cables and put the Graditech back in. There is so much more meat and energy in the Inakustic. The Graditech are thin in comparison. Fyi, I have the flagship Inakustic and the entry Graditech. Just to be fair.

To Alpinist, I can make my setup sound bad. That's easy. In all the bulk of my tweaking and fussing, setting up the speakers etc have made my system very pleasant. I guess my only point was each individual step yields a result that if I like I keep. But in a few short days it all blends into the whole and there is no more Ahhhh what a nice improvement.
 
Isn’t the end game for us to get enjoyment out of what our system brings us? As long as you have the bank account for the tweaks and mods I say no harm no foul. And the good side we keep the audio companies in business with our hard earned money.
 
Kingrex said:
I guess my only point was each individual step yields a result that if I like I keep. But in a few short days it all blends into the whole and there is no more Ahhhh what a nice improvement.
Click to expand...

Kingrex.......My experience with various additions and tweaks to my systems tend to produce incremental improvements that become cumulative as I make advances. I try not to make changes or additions haphazardly, preferring to research extensively and converse with people who have made the changes I wish to incorporate into my system. By the time I make a decision I am confident it will be positive. I'm not interested in randomly adding and removing tweaks just to see what happens.

I agree with you that we acclimate relatively quick to improvements in our sound systems. I believe this is primarily because we have short term memory as it relates to sound. Initially we respond to an immediate difference whether positive or negative and react accordingly, but in a short period of time we become accustomed to the performance bar being raised. The new norm becomes common to us. What I notice with my sound systems is the manner in which the music captures my consciousness, holds my complete attention, and allows me to temporarily suspend the reality of sitting in a room for the experience of being transported to the venue of a musical performance. The better my systems have become the easier it is to be lifted to a state of mind where all the tweaks become totally worthwhile yet draw no specific attention to themselves.
 
I was starting to get over-tweaky, and had similar experiences to what you've cited. Finally removed a bunch of tube dampers and HRS damping plates; don't miss 'em one bit. My system has now settled down, and I'm enjoying it far more than ever. I strongly believe that we are the biggest variable in our system, and subtle differences are easy to confuse with our own day-to-day variations. To be fair I have a very high-end rack (CMS Maxxum) housing my turntable/phono/preamp (all tube electronics), and it definitely made a big difference for the turntable at least - so I do realize vibration control can be important.

The maker of my rack now sells some very high end feet, and I was initially interested, but at this point I think I'll pass. Another $1600+ per component (and I have monoblocks, too) with no discount and poor resale value - no thanks.

I do believe cables can make a concrete difference, but it is very much on the subtle side, and there is only a relatively weak correlation between price and sonics. So certainly, they aren't great in the bang-for-buck department, past a certain point of competence. That said, I own some very expensive AQ silver cables that I like very much - it's just that I realize the funds could have been better allocated elsewhere.

I'll say one "tweak" that made a really nice difference: buying a SMARTractor and aligning the hell out of my cartridges!
 
slowgeezr said:
I think we are conditioned to hear improvements if we spend the time and money to try something new. I put in some very, very expensive interconnects from my pre to my amps and thought I heard significant improvements; sounds in the music I hadn't noticed before leapt out of my speakers. I was impressed, to say the least. I then put my interconnects back in and listened to the same music, listening for those sounds and lo and behold, they were presented in all their glory.
Click to expand...

Steve, thanks for stepping up to the plate and admitting to a well know 'subjective bias' that many audiophiles refuse to !
 
I would not buy anything without considerable research, too expensive and never lost not knowing, not to be confused with upgrades and even that I’m super careful.

I do like to play around when something is acquired but only after a length of time; swap the power inputs, move mechanical grounding around to other components and placement under the component itself besides dusting and maintenance - this makes the hobby, a hobby for me at least.

I write down the parts of songs I use for reference to know if there is improvement.




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I got a smart Tractor too. In the end, I hired a professional to come to my house and watched as he aligned everything. I learned a lot. It made a pretty big impact.
mulveling said:
I was starting to get over-tweaky, and had similar experiences to what you've cited. Finally removed a bunch of tube dampers and HRS damping plates; don't miss 'em one bit. My system has now settled down, and I'm enjoying it far more than ever. I strongly believe that we are the biggest variable in our system, and subtle differences are easy to confuse with our own day-to-day variations. To be fair I have a very high-end rack (CMS Maxxum) housing my turntable/phono/preamp (all tube electronics), and it definitely made a big difference for the turntable at least - so I do realize vibration control can be important.

The maker of my rack now sells some very high end feet, and I was initially interested, but at this point I think I'll pass. Another $1600+ per component (and I have monoblocks, too) with no discount and poor resale value - no thanks.

I do believe cables can make a concrete difference, but it is very much on the subtle side, and there is only a relatively weak correlation between price and sonics. So certainly, they aren't great in the bang-for-buck department, past a certain point of competence. That said, I own some very expensive AQ silver cables that I like very much - it's just that I realize the funds could have been better allocated elsewhere.

I'll say one "tweak" that made a really nice difference: buying a SMARTractor and aligning the hell out of my cartridges!
Click to expand...
 
Ed, I'm interested to hear and see how your using grounding. I have a lot of noise that I have done a good job of getting rid of, but have a little ways to go. I think grounding can be a good way to drain EMI, RF out of the power and signal chain and take it away from the system. I want to avoid power conditioning as much as possible. Had to many bad experiences. I do use an Akiko Corelli and it takes a lot of noise from my system. Still, I have some left over.

UltraFast69 said:
I would not buy anything without considerable research, too expensive and never lost not knowing, not to be confused with upgrades and even that I’m super careful.

I do like to play around when something is acquired but only after a length of time; swap the power inputs, move mechanical grounding around to other components and placement under the component itself besides dusting and maintenance - this makes the hobby, a hobby for me at least.

I write down the parts of songs I use for reference to know if there is improvement.




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Click to expand...
 
Kingrex said:
Ed, I'm interested to hear and see how your using grounding. I have a lot of noise that I have done a good job of getting rid of, but have a little ways to go. I think grounding can be a good way to drain EMI, RF out of the power and signal chain and take it away from the system. I want to avoid power conditioning as much as possible. Had to many bad experiences. I do use an Akiko Corelli and it takes a lot of noise from my system. Still, I have some left over.
Click to expand...

Let’s coordinate maybe this weekend - PM a note


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I still notice the improvement that after market power cords made to my system when I play disks that have not been in rotation since before the change. Bass and Detail continue to show as the main improvement.

But you are correct, we do get used to a sound, and change may be more different than better or worse.

I am not about to put all the old crappy PCs back to re-prove it.
 
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