Isolation Feet for Avantgarde - IsoAcoustics Gaia or bFLY Talis Pro

[Hear Here]

My new Avantgarde Duo speakers have arrived, but I find they are too tall ! The Manual suggests they should be tilted so one can just see the top of the bass enclosure. This requires much more tilt than I want from an aesthetic point of view.

The design includes rather fancy adjustable-height spikes, but these can be easily removed and replaced with soft vibration-absorbing feet, although surprisingly this is not recommended by Avantgarde. For me the advantages of soft feet are that the height can be reduced and unwanted vibration and noise to my downstairs neighbours can be minimised - and importantly they may sound better. My floors are timber boards on screed on concrete.

OK - the choice for these 100 Kg speakers is:

IsoAcoustic Gaia Titan Theis (or Gaia I). These would allow a 2-3 cm reduction in height and it's a well respected technology. I have Gaia II feet under my old Duos and I much prefer these over spikes, sound-wise.

OR - bFLY Audio Talis Pro L feet. These are German made and new to me, but I stumbled across them recently and they could be a better solution as it would allow a 5-6 cm heigt reduction. This would probably eliminate the need for any forward tilt, but what about the sound?

Has anyone any experience of the Talis Pro feet? Or can you suggest a further alternative that may better either of these? Thanks Peter

PS Does anyone believe that Gaias sound better with their name logo facing forward rather than randomly tightening them up wherever the logo ends up?

Links:

Avantgarde support frame - see photo

Gaia Titan - GAIA-Titan | IsoAcoustics

Talis Pro - Luxury Speaker supports

 

[Jim Smith]

Symposium Svelte Plus shelves/platforms, directly beneath frame mounts - no cones - we won Best Sound at Show awards using this technique - at about 80% of shows we entered in the Avantgarde-USA years.

 

[Hear Here]

Symposium Svelte Plus shelves/platforms, directly beneath frame mounts - no cones - we won Best Sound at Show awards using this technique - at about 80% of shows we entered in the Avantgarde-USA years.

Thanks Jim - I'm in touch with Symphosium to decide on the best size for the new Duos that have cast aluminium frames and outriggers for the (unwanted) spikes. Peter

 

[Anil Kalagatla]

Hi Peter: I'm curious in which direction you ended up going. I have a similar issue with my Trio XDs with the tweeter a little higher than recommended. I'm especially curious if you ended up using the Symposium platforms and if that helped. I'm also noticing that the frame seems a little wobbly with spikes and am wondering if just using a flat platform addresses that.

Jim: In your experience, did you also have to angle the speakers to get the right ear/tweeter alignment and if so, how did you manage that with Symposium platforms?

Thanks
Anil

 

[Hear Here]

Hi Peter: I'm curious in which direction you ended up going. I have a similar issue with my Trio XDs with the tweeter a little higher than recommended. I'm especially curious if you ended up using the Symposium platforms and if that helped. I'm also noticing that the frame seems a little wobbly with spikes and am wondering if just using a flat platform addresses that.

Jim: In your experience, did you also have to angle the speakers to get the right ear/tweeter alignment and if so, how did you manage that with Symposium platforms?

Thanks
Anil

Hi Anil

Firstly the problem with tilt requirement only applies to the latest Duo XD as earlier Duos (the ones Jim handled in US) are appreciably less tall as they had no base frame and much more modest spikes.

I notice the latest Trios are also taller than earlier ones as a result of the new spikes - by 2" / 50 mm or so

I wasn't very keen on getting the Symposium platforms quite yet for 2 reasons. There aren't any Svelte Plus platforms in the UK (or even used in Europe according to HiFiShark), so I can't check them out before parting with something like £1600. Secondly, this appears relatively ancient technology compared with the likes of Gaia, although I'm not suggesting the latter is any better.

The Gaia IIs that I have under my old 65 kg Duos make a big difference but I'd need Gaia I or Gaia Titan Theis for the 95 kg weight of the XDs. These Gaias are over 5 cm in height so would not get round the problem of the Duos being too tall.

Meanwhile I did find some bFLY Talis Pro L feet that I've now fitted. They reduce the height appreciably as that are only 2 cm high, but I'm not convinced of their technology. They have the advantage that the speakers can easily be moved so I’ll keep them at least until I’ve found the ideal location, toe-in, etc.

The other solution may be Arya Revopods that I've heard work well - in fact one forum user found them appreciably better than Gaias. They may be good with the XDs are they are only 3.2 cm high.

It galls me that Avantgarde has chosen to increase the height of the bass enclosure so much and at the same time reduced the depth compared with earlier models - from 22" to 16". When changing from 10" drivers to 12", the enclosure volume obviously had to be increased, but there seems no good reason for increasing their height to the extent that ungainly forward tilt is required. This is even worse for owners with carpets who wish to stand the speakers on stone slabs!

I’ll keep you posted on my setting up results that I should be able to concentrate on when I get my Dirac Live room analysis equipment. I hope this will provide pointers to tuning the speakers using the XD software. Again, it disappoints me that Avantgarde supply their fancy XD DSP software, yet they don’t provide a calibrated mic so one can see where adjustments should be made to correct for room anomalies! Peter

 

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks Peter, the lack of easy availability does make it harder, though I'm not sure if I would worry too much about the age of the design given that it has been tested (few other isolation platforms have been selling for that long). I'm actually inclined to try it if I can find the right size - even the largest standard model seems to be just a tad too small for the Trio XD footprint. If I can figure out the tilt situation with the platform...

Anil

 

[Jim Smith]

Hi Peter: I'm curious in which direction you ended up going. I have a similar issue with my Trio XDs with the tweeter a little higher than recommended. I'm especially curious if you ended up using the Symposium platforms and if that helped. I'm also noticing that the frame seems a little wobbly with spikes and am wondering if just using a flat platform addresses that.

Jim: In your experience, did you also have to angle the speakers to get the right ear/tweeter alignment and if so, how did you manage that with Symposium platforms?

Thanks
Anil

Anil,

Sometimes tilting them could be necessary if the listener's seat height seemed off a bit - typically too low in regard to the loudspeaker.

We always did this with the Symposium Ultra platforms, because the additional height of the platform changed the time alignment of the mid-to-tweeter horns.

We found it most effective to accomplish the tilt with metal shims directly at the outside rear corners of the platform, not under the speaker itself. If the Svelte shelf is used, it may or may not require tilting forward ever so slightly.

Please note that Symposium can usually build the shelves/platforms to the size that you need.

Best,

Jim

 

[Hear Here]

Anil and Jim

I think size is a difficult choice with these Symposium platforms. Looking at my Duo XDs, do I measure the size of the base frame including the spike "wings" (about 16" x 23") or just the central rectangular frame (about 13" x 18")? Stock sizes would be 19 x 24 or 14 x 19.

Neither would look great, but I suspect the smaller size may be the better option per Jim's earlier recommendation of maximum contact area, although these platforms would leave the spike wings sticking out and looking stupid! With the larger platform, the spike wings have plates about 3 mm thick that seem non-removable (see photo at top of thread), so these would be the only contact area with the platform, contrary to Jim's recommendation.

I've asked the UK distributor (who maintains nil stock and can't offer demo units or sale-or-return) for prices.

These platforms would offer a good solution if height is an important factor as they are only 3 cm high. This is similar to Revopods that would certainly look better! Tilting is not acceptable in my room as the speakers are in the middle of the room and the tilt is obvious and unattractive from the side. Or do I get a bar stool for my listening! Why has AG not kept their earlier concept where Uno and Duo horns can be set at 5 different heights? Progress ?!? Peter

 

[Anil Kalagatla]

Thanks Jim, this is very helpful. I like the idea of using metal shims. I will reach out to Symposium to get rates for the custom sizes.

Anil

Anil,

Sometimes tilting them could be necessary if the listener's seat height seemed off a bit - typically too low in regard to the loudspeaker.

We always did this with the Symposium Ultra platforms, because the additional height of the platform changed the time alignment of the mid-to-tweeter horns.

We found it most effective to accomplish the tilt with metal shims directly at the outside rear corners of the platform, not under the speaker itself. If the Svelte shelf is used, it may or may not require tilting forward ever so slightly.

Please note that Symposium can usually build the shelves/platforms to the size that you need.

Best,

Jim