Is there solid state gear that gives the depth and 3D of tubes?

My 2 cents.. I'm a long time tube guy (20+ years). who has recently, gone over to the dark side of SS. There are a number of mega buck SS amps that would qualify, some of which are seldom discussed here. Gryphon, Viola, Analog Domain would be my top 3.

But I'd like to direct your attention elsewhere Joe. Both the Absolare Passion and Ypsilon Phaethon are hybrid integrated that may get you extremely close to your Holy Grail without mortgaging the farm.......
 
If price isn't an issue.

The new Dag M400s have incredible 3d soundstage, some of the best I've heard from any amp. Although I must admit - I've only listened to them in my room with the Raidho D5s which have an incredible soundstage themselves. So maybe with other speakers the M400s would be more in the normal range of 3d.

In a more reasonable but still quite expensive amp range - the Ayre KXR20/MXR20 combo has great 3d and soundstage.
 
puroagave said:
we can stay up all night talking about SS gear that have the je ne sais quoi of tubes but its never exactly the same. IMO the only substitute for tube gear is other tube gear:snicker:
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If you are looking for a certain sonic signature , Yes !

IMO the only toob gear unmatched for realism by top notch SS is a SET, a good SET does "they are here" better than any, but does require a matched speaker system to make it possible. Well made SS exceeds the best none SET toobs in my opinion , with possibly a Hybrid setup being the best compromise.


Since most Audiophile systems are under powered to begin with , most of what audiophiles like in an amplifier is their clipping characteristics and here is where toobs win out, their higher head room and soft clipping characteristics are more preferable than the typical hard clipping characteristics of SS amplfiers.

Class-D ...!

It's the big dynamic headroom of high powered Class-D amplifiers is what gets most into class-D , well made class-D have very good jump factor ( speed) but fails to coddle with there glassy 2 dim sound , they are impedance sensitive ( speculating due to their output inductors) and as such have issues with timbre, this of course will vary from speaker to speaker. I may also add , most amps do , but Class-D more so than other SS designs..


Regards...
 
Well I am sure it will seem silly to post this here being that so many extreme expense level equipment is being talked about, but you may be doing yourself a huge favor to listen to the Wyred equipment.

The pre-amp is so unique in that it is a hybrid passive/active pre. The volume control section maybe one of the most unique ever designed. If you recall, the thing that I keep saying over and over breaking in the amplifier was I could not believe the separation and sound stage. This is the one area that it stomped the Job in my opinion. It surprised the crap out of me. With the new pre and amp just around the corner they may be worth at the very least listening to.

Unfortunately, a quick listen, as you know, usually does not tell all because of how many hours of break in this equipment requires.
 
Many years ago I bought a Pass Aleph 3, when I was trying to get the SET sound at a reasonable price. It did a pretty good job, but nothing like a real SET.

Larry
 
I think some Pass gear can give a tube like sound. I have a friend that has a pair of Nuforce Model 9se v3 monoblocks and they give a 3D liquid sound which is very tube like.
 
My Nords w/ the Sparkos does a really great job.

I truly miss my Pass XA60.5's.

Jock, I am thinking Dagostino Momentum S250 if I can sell my Bryston amps.

I want to hear the Lamm 1.2M monos.

I'd love to try the Nagra Classic stereo amp too.
 
Jfboynton said:
Never heard them but Wells Audio Innamorata amps have gotten some high praise for sounding tube like.
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Wells Audios receives great reviews.

annapolis Raider said:
My 2 cents.. I'm a long time tube guy (20+ years). who has recently, gone over to the dark side of SS. There are a number of mega buck SS amps that would qualify, some of which are seldom discussed here. Gryphon, Viola, Analog Domain would be my top 3.

But I'd like to direct your attention elsewhere Joe. Both the Absolare Passion and Ypsilon Phaethon are hybrid integrated that may get you extremely close to your Holy Grail without mortgaging the farm.......
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Hmmmm. Very interesting. I liked the Asbolare 845's, I bet the Passion would be nice.
 
joeinid said:
Wells Audios receives great reviews.



Hmmmm. Very interesting. I liked the Asbolare 845's, I bet the Passion would be nice.
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ya baby , $35k nice and man do they sound sweet but of course they were supported by $10's of thousands of dollars of equipment. . Heard them at CES 2013. Only if I could win the lottery:skeptical: or if I knew a guy . :signhere:
 
IMO, yes, although those attributes wouldn't be the right ones to help me make a decision.

Nor would I be looking for a tube-like sound, in the sense that it is usually discussed.

YMMV... :)
 
I'd like to compare the Nagra Classic to my Dartzeel although the PP 300B is really the one I want to try. It won't sound classically "tubey" in the least I'd bet but has the linearity of 300B.

Back to tubes vs ss differences, problem with most SS amps to me is they truncate the "whole note." That's the first thing I notice on anything Class D as well. Your Ayre gets that part right. I found the Dart to do this better than Dagostino in my experience as well - it probably depends on the speaker though.
 
With SS, what is really necessary is sufficient Class-A bias at the load and SPL you are driving, when an SS amp slides into class-B too early ( soft passages or moderate SPL) is when most will notice a thinness of sound and this could lead to the truncation of notes you are describing.
 
I want to try the Nagra too

joeinid said:
My Nords w/ the Sparkos does a really great job.

I truly miss my Pass XA60.5's.

Jock, I am thinking Dagostino Momentum S250 if I can sell my Bryston amps.

I want to hear the Lamm 1.2M monos.

I'd love to try the Nagra Classic stereo amp too.
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KeithR said:
Back to tubes vs ss differences, problem with most SS amps to me is they truncate the "whole note." That's the first thing I notice on anything Class D as well. Your Ayre gets that part right. I found the Dart to do this better than Dagostino in my experience as well - it probably depends on the speaker though.
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Agreed on the Ayre, even though I own the ASR Emitter II... :happy:

We probably agree on the difference between SS & tube amps as well, but from different viewpoints.

I've always felt that most tube amps produced a slight lingering quality to the sound. I've wondered if is microphonics at a very small level. I've thought it was why most tube dampers are thought to "overdamp" the tubes (make them less pleasant to hear).

If ss is compared to to this lingering sound (which I admit to enjoying), then it will sound truncated.

This slight lingering quality is pleasant to hear, and contributes to the illusion of space.

I say this as a lifelong fan of tube amps, even before my days at ARC.

For the most part, SS amps sounded unpleasant, and some still don't produce my "Big Three."

As always, IMO...
 
Joe, since you said the "depth and 3D of tubes", I imagine you're referring to sound stage and imaging, and not actually the mellow and warm "tube" sound. If that's the case, I believe that the type of speaker and speaker/listener position makes the bigger impression on depth and 3D than the gear upstream. Of course, the electronics has a lot to do with it as well, but speakers and location make the biggest difference.

In my system, I went from Sonus bookshelf speakers to these huge Martin Logan's, everything else remaining the same. Once I got the ML's situated and tweaked into their proper placement, they throw out a very convincing holographic sound stage with plenty of depth and 3D placement of instruments and singers when the recording has it to offer. This is exactly what I loved and missed with my old Magnepan's that I sold back in the early 2000's.

Granted, my system isn't built-up with gear from MBL, Esoteric, Audio Research, Burmester and the likes, but it's still good gear that is all well known for performing well above its price point, and with the right speakers dialed in properly, it performs rather well. Then again, I've also tweaked this system farther than any of my past systems, so I'm sure that all adds up as well. I've heard systems that cost many times more than mine, and I wasn't that impressed. Some of them were just flat, bland sounding with no dynamics. Just lifeless.
 
Hi Charles,

When I said "depth and 3D of tubes", I meant without making any changes other than from SS to tube amps, the sound stage went from the speaker to what felt like 15' back. It was more noticeable on the JBL's as compared to my Strads. My Strads have always imaged well and yes, tubes excel on them too for my taste.

I had only swapped SS amps until one night I felt it was time for the McIntosh MC-75's. I honestly did not think the MC-75's were "good enough" for the JBL's. Boy was I wrong. I thought that because the MC-75's are not as layered or have the same depth as my ART monos for example. I love my MC-75 and feel guilty for kind of dismissing them on a speaker without even trying them. Maybe is was a predisposed bias but I will never dismiss something again until I try it and get a great feel for it. Even my Jolida 3502 does an amazing job with a big, wide open sound. The Jolida feels a little more energetic and powerful, a different flavor for sure.

Don't get me wrong. I love the SS amps that I have and just wanted to see what you guys think. My stereo is on 10-15 hours a day and playing tubes seems like a waste for those times I just want some background music. I hate swapping gear in and out constantly but there is no denying that tubes have some special quality over SS.
 
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