Is the Problem with Digital Perfect Timing

Kingrex

Kingrex

Active member
Joined
Dec 17, 2017
Messages
1,187
Location
Seattle Washington USA
I have bounced back and forth with which medium I prefer in my system. Digital or my TT. I have better and bettered both. Both perform at a pretty high level. Right now my digital is more warm thick and harmonic. The Vinyl is a little thin, but has wonderful reproduction of instruments such as violin. Very natural. A little more toe tapping . The digital is lacking a bit of Ahhhhh.

As I go back and forth in my system, and hear of people at the highest levels say the analog is better than digital. What is the chance part of the potential issue with digital is it's perfect timing. Sure it is reflecting the imperfections in the original performance, but the actual signal is of perfect timing. What else in the world can you point to that has perfect timing. Especially in the domain of hearing. Maybe that artifact is unnatural to us and causes some Hmmmm in our perception of the music.

Just musing. Any thoughts.
 
Is it possible for an audiophile to have a purely subjective preference, without any need for a iffy objective crutch?
IOW, just prefer something because you do. Just curious.

cheers,

AJ
 
Ultimate timing depends on the clock (in digital). Ultimate timing in analog depends on the stability and consistency of the motor and the power going to that motor. A bad setup can also affect timing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Kingrex said:
I have bounced back and forth with which medium I prefer in my system. Digital or my TT. I have better and bettered both. Both perform at a pretty high level. Right now my digital is more warm thick and harmonic. The Vinyl is a little thin, but has wonderful reproduction of instruments such as violin. Very natural. A little more toe tapping . The digital is lacking a bit of Ahhhhh.

As I go back and forth in my system, and hear of people at the highest levels say the analog is better than digital. What is the chance part of the potential issue with digital is it's perfect timing. Sure it is reflecting the imperfections in the original performance, but the actual signal is of perfect timing. What else in the world can you point to that has perfect timing. Especially in the domain of hearing. Maybe that artifact is unnatural to us and causes some Hmmmm in our perception of the music.

Just musing. Any thoughts.
Click to expand...


King try running that 103 with an SUT .....
 
What I am wondering is are the clocks in digital devices so accurate they might sound a little unnatural to us. We are not use to perfection. Maybe our tapes and vinyl are a touch more real because of the timing modulation.
 
Kingrex said:
What I am wondering is are the clocks in digital devices so accurate they might sound a little unnatural to us. We are not use to perfection. Maybe our tapes and vinyl are a touch more real because of the timing modulation.
Click to expand...

Nature's timing is perfect. Why should reproduction's timing strive/accept to be any different?
 
Very hard to pin point between Digital and Analog with so many variables in ones environment to make or deter improvements.

What a Hobby!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
UltraFast69 said:
Very hard to pin point between Digital and Analog with so many variables in ones environment to make or deter improvements.
Click to expand...

Not really. I can listen to digital uninterrupted for hours. Maybe 20 minutes with vinyl. I rarely have to clean the digital system. Vinyl needs to be constantly cleaned. Digital is the latest technology, digital is old, obsolete technology. Not much of a choice here. :)
 
BlueFox said:
Not really. I can listen to digital uninterrupted for hours. Maybe 20 minutes with vinyl. I rarely have to clean the digital system. Vinyl needs to be constantly cleaned. Digital is the latest technology, digital is old, obsolete technology. Not much of a choice here. :)
Click to expand...

I’m talking more of sonic dynamics emitted between the two assuming the physical readiness analog requires is in play.

I look at cleaning vinyl as part of the hobby and agree digital voids this part of the process making things a lot easier, and digital has come a long way especially with Suncoast Mike sporting and tempting me with MSB [emoji28]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
 
Kingrex said:
What I am wondering is are the clocks in digital devices so accurate they might sound a little unnatural to us. We are not use to perfection. Maybe our tapes and vinyl are a touch more real because of the timing modulation.
Click to expand...
I'm no shrink, but could be why some audiophiles prefer vinyl, etc. Their "reference" is mistimed analog reproduction, rather than real life instruments, whose timing will be correctly relayed via digital reproduction. Actually, that would be in full agreement with what JG Holt was saying.
Or it could be that some folks, for whatever reason, need some sort of objective reason for why they subjectively prefer something. Unease, uncertainty, comfort, etc, etc? In that scenario, sure, why not "timing".
Out of curiosity, have you ever compared analog, say vinyl, to a "digitized" version of itself, level matched and quick switched in real time? Makes for an interesting experience.
 
AJ Soundfield said:
I'm no shrink, but could be why some audiophiles prefer vinyl, etc. Their "reference" is mistimed analog reproduction, rather than real life instruments, whose timing will be correctly relayed via digital reproduction. Actually, that would be in full agreement with what JG Holt was saying.
Or it could be that some folks, for whatever reason, need some sort of objective reason for why they subjectively prefer something. Unease, uncertainty, comfort, etc, etc? In that scenario, sure, why not "timing".
Out of curiosity, have you ever compared analog, say vinyl, to a "digitized" version of itself, level matched and quick switched in real time? Makes for an interesting experience.
Click to expand...


maybe those lacking experience enjoy timing clocks , er, maybe a sort of preference, Yes thats it ....

:)
 
a.wayne said:
maybe those lacking experience enjoy timing clocks , er, maybe a sort of preference, Yes thats it ....

:)
Click to expand...
Red Herrings are limited only by the imagination in the echo chamber. Heck, free of shrinks, folks are "hearing" dither in there.
Btw, you ready for Youtube stardom after the above vinyl vs "digital" version "trust your ears" test? It's coming...:)
 
Out of curiosity, have you ever compared analog, say vinyl, to a "digitized" version of itself, level matched and quick switched in real time? Makes for an interesting experience.[/QUOTE]

I do this all the time. I find a digital copy and compare it to a vinyl copy. Most of the time, to get a digital copy of the same label, year etc I have to go to Tidal. My NAS plays better than Tidal. Maybe some of the haze is there. It is much tougher to hear differences between my NAS and Tidal. The gap there is not quite as big.

At this time I am uninterested in spending $ on vinyl. It's good. I want the digital to better it.
 
Kingrex said:
I do this all the time. I find a digital copy and compare it to a vinyl copy. Most of the time, to get a digital copy of the same label, year etc I have to go to Tidal.
Click to expand...
I don't think you quite understand what I will be putting on Youtube with Mr Wayne.
Whatever vinyl you have, is played on a TT that feeds a dual output phono preamplifier, that then feeds 2 separate inputs on the main preamp. You switch between these 2 inputs, one of them is a straight throughput, the other goes (loops) through an ADC/DAC "digitizer", then into the 2nd input of the preamp. I highly doubt you've ever done that before. The levels of both are voltage matched, so there is no difference in volume as a "tell". You hear every snap, crackle, pop, rumble, wow, flutter, noise, crosstalk, etc, etc, etc on BOTH.
Then Mr Wayne will identify the one with the "timing", "smearing", "chopping", "dither", etc, etc. as he can easily do when seeing/knowing digital playback. It will all be posted to Youtube, all hues and colors, facial expressions, etc.
Lot's of fun await ;)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top