Is asking for discount pricing disgraceful?

[MusicDirector]

To me, hunting for the lowest price or bargain is an entirely different thing from betrayal of a dealer relationship. That is assuming or provided one is hunting for the lowest price first and only before contacting a dealer which leaves the dealer relationship out of the equation, therefore no betrayal can occur since said dealer was never contacted and engaged except the one of chosen purchase and by then it’s a done deal anyway. If only hunting lowest price of bargain in my opinion it is not polite to be calling dealers asking for price. One should stick to looking on their own and if the price is not listed on the website or in the store, then move on, don’t waste a dealer’s time when he or she could be making an actual sale or at least working with a potential promising customer of some level.

For me personally, it all boils down to honesty of all parties. I think honesty gets the best discount, bargain, deal, whatever. First of all, if it’s something that doesn’t require a dealer then I don’t bother and just use self-service. If it’s something that requires a dealer then as a consumer/customer I find that being flat honest with any dealer I contact yields the best deal and service. When I contact a dealer, I am honest about everything. While of course, I tend not to contact a dealer until just about ready to purchase within a short time or right away: For example, if I’m not prepared to purchase just yet (perhaps I find I need another month or two to save the final bit in course of conversation or finishing up some research perhaps), I flat out tell the dealer from the beginning that I need some extra time and am not quite ready to purchase that day or week. I’m also honest about my frequency of purchasing gear and my position in life. I tell them in the very beginning that I do not often purchase gear as I am not of means to support such an activity on a frequent basis. I tell them it could be as much as a year to 5 or 6 years or more before I need to and am in a position to purchase another piece, etc. etc.

I have never been rejected or brushed off or anything. In fact, by being that painfully honest I have been treated very well by the dealers I have engaged. I have been shown the same level of service as a “buy right now” customer and have had nice discussions based on honesty with the dealers I have come across. The only reason why I can think that happens is because perhaps they appreciate that type of honesty, I don’t know.

As was already mentioned by a couple of folks here, good dealers want repeat customers and will do what they can to make that happen in an honest way. I think it best to put all the cards on the table and let the dealer decide what they want to do. There are some items where the margin is tiny and not a lot of room to do much of anything, while other items have more room to play. Plus dealers have full discretion to do whatever type of deal they want as long as it is not questionable or putting their relationship with the manufacture at risk or their business at risk.

Then there is service. My personal take on this from me as a customer point of view is that good dealers offer good service, but I recognize that it comes at a cost. If the dealer is driving out to your place to set up your turntable or speakers or something, the dealer is taking time with you and possibly sacrificing other potential sales opportunities.
I personally, believe that if I am purchasing an item such as a turntable or speakers, etc. I should at least know the basics of set-up at the minimum or be able to follow instructions or a dealer’s instructions over the phone or something, otherwise I don’t have any business purchasing such things. I personally believe it is my responsibility to do my homework and know how to do certain things.
Most dealers I’ve ever dealt with always tell me to call them if I need any help or have questions and that is the only time I call. That’s just me though. Some people require more I guess. Although I also need to take into account the fact that most dealers I’ve ever interacted with are thousands of miles away, so they can’t hop in the car and come over. Like I said though, I don’t expect levels of service like that anyway.

Just my personal view.

 

[a.wayne]

Discount ...?

It depends on the sale, if i did all the leg work , know what i want and the only thing involved is for the dealer to run my card, then its fair to ask for a discount, free shipping or paying the TAX at the very least. If the dealer did all the leg work, by auditioning, supplying Loaners, etc , then i dont think its fair to ask for a discount, then and in my Books the purchaser is being a Jerk...





Regards

 

[MusicDirector]

Discount ...?

It depends on the sale, if i did all the leg work , know what i want and the only thing involved is for the dealer to run my card, then its fair to ask for a discount, free shipping or paying the TAX at the very least. If the dealer did all the leg work, by auditioning, supplying Loaners, etc , then i dont think its fair to ask for a discount, then and in my Books the purchaser is being a Jerk...





Regards

I can see your point. I think it comes down to one's personal expectations and such. For me I prefer to not ask and wait to see if the dealer offers me a discount or deal of some type or something. I just don't feel right asking in such a direct way no matter what level of work I put into it.

Just my opinion

 

[MusicDirector]

Another thought. I think dealers willing to spend time talking with you and such is a good thing because it gives the dealer a chance to sense who he is potentially dealing with and how far he wants to go. On the flip it also gives the potential customer a feel for the dealer's integrity. As a customer, this has always proven to be positive for me.

 

[FlexibleAudio]

This is an interesting topic and to some extent similar to discussions I have had on multiple occasions with my primary dealer. I no longer discuss what I have paid for any product with anyone, not even my closest audio friends who often shop at the same store. (Note: I made one mistake about ~10 years ago that could have cost me two relationships, so I am adamant on this point now).

i don't believe that discussing actual discounts or dealer margins has any place in these forums. ( In that vein I am hoping some edits one of the previous posts in this thread). My dealer and also now a friend and I often debate the issues sites such as this, AA and WBF have on the industry. My position is that Audiogon let the genie out of the bottle and it will never be put back. IMO the secondary market sets the price point that consumers base what is a fair price to pay for gear.

I value the service provided by the two B&M stores I frequent in my area. I can audition any piece of gear they have in stock in my own home. My commitment to them is that I will never abuse this benefit my taking home a piece of gear I have no intention of considering for purchase. They also know that I will not shop around for a better price. In the end both of parties must be comfortable with whatever deal is on the table. There are a couple of people here who know that I had the opportunity to acquire one of my current pieces of gear at a significantly better price than I ended up negotiating with my dealer.

I can see your point. I think it comes down to one's personal expectations and such. For me I prefer to not ask and wait to see if the dealer offers me a discount or deal of some type or something. I just don't feel right asking in such a direct way no matter what level of work I put into it.

Just my opinion

Regarding the two highlighted statements above, I must say I don't understand this line of reasoning either. I must be a crass old goat.

It seams to me we are all big kids and this is just business. In business if you screw some one don't expect future access to the services of that someone. The dealer universe has full authority to weigh every proposal as a unique commercial opportunity and either agree or not. No one is holding a gun to their head. At the same time if a consumer uses the dealer's time and resources and then buys the product from another party based on price, the dealer has every right to make a commercial decision the next time that party shows up at his store to throw him out on his ear or play the game again.

As I said above in Post 38, if a consumer uses the dealer for anything more than taking an order they should agree to the terms of the transaction upfront and honor those terms if they expect to use such services again.

Now, that all said, I believe there are some dealers that will go out of their way to make a customer feel as if they are committing a federal offense for asking about a discount as a means of combating the practice. This too is well within the dealers commercial prerogative, but I simply react to it for what it is.....a business tactic. I would never allow such a thing to impact me personally or emotionally.

 

[mep]

Regarding the two highlighted statements above, I must say I don't understand this line of reasoning either. I must be a crass old goat.

It seams to me we are all big kids and this is just business. In business if you screw some one don't expect future access to the services of that someone. The dealer universe has full authority to weigh every proposal as a unique commercial opportunity and either agree or not. No one is holding a gun to their head. At the same time if a consumer uses the dealer's time and resources and then buys the product from another party based on price, the dealer has every right to make a commercial decision the next time that party shows up at his store to throw him out on his ear or play the game again.

As I said above in Post 38, if a consumer uses the dealer for anything more than taking an order they should agree to the terms of the transaction upfront and honor those terms if they expect to use such services again.

Now, that all said, I believe there are some dealers that will go out of their way to make a customer feel as if they are committing a federal offense for asking about a discount as a means of combating the practice. This too is well within the dealers commercial prerogative, but I simply react to it for what it is.....a business tactic. I would never allow such a thing to impact me personally or emotionally.

Paul-It pains me to say this, but I agree with you. I have never paid full list price for any audio gear I have bought over the last 40 years. I also don't expect to pay anywhere close to MSRP for an automobile. With few exceptions, audio dealers have high margins to work with and they can knock off some money from the list price. This sort of reminds me when I was being trained to sell cars many years ago and the manager who was training me was freaking hilarious. We started all deals at full MSRP and negotiated down from there. My manager told me that some people will get offended when you start off at MSRP. He said to expect some customers will tell you that only an idiot pays MSRP for a car and they will ask you if you think they are an idiot. He said to tell them no, but if you were, I sure wouldn't have wanted to miss you!

 

[still-one]

Regarding the two highlighted statements above, I must say I don't understand this line of reasoning either. I must be a crass old goat.

.

Just because someone has a pretty good idea what the margins are on various products doesn't mean they have to share that information across the forums. As Mike pointed out in his earlier lengthly post many individuals don't understand what those margins have to cover. They think that is XX% profit. On top of that you will have individuals who pay MSRP and will feel ripped off by someone posting they shopped 3 dealers then got a great discount from one of them. He then gets pissed at the dealer when he was happy when he walked out the door.

 

[KingRT10]

I have saved 10's of thousands negotiating , audio gear. The dealers all seemed happy taking payment. Business is business. I have seen dealers selling new equipment on audiogon as used, to just move more gear and make something less than full retail. It's generally not in limited supply.
We are living in a Circus.

PS
Even Best Buy's Magnolia offers deals on their high end line, by throwing equipment in, that translates into a nice discount. Which surprised me!

 

[MusicDirector]

Regarding the two highlighted statements above, I must say I don't understand this line of reasoning either. I must be a crass old goat.

It seams to me we are all big kids and this is just business. In business if you screw some one don't expect future access to the services of that someone. The dealer universe has full authority to weigh every proposal as a unique commercial opportunity and either agree or not. No one is holding a gun to their head. At the same time if a consumer uses the dealer's time and resources and then buys the product from another party based on price, the dealer has every right to make a commercial decision the next time that party shows up at his store to throw him out on his ear or play the game again.

As I said above in Post 38, if a consumer uses the dealer for anything more than taking an order they should agree to the terms of the transaction upfront and honor those terms if they expect to use such services again.

Now, that all said, I believe there are some dealers that will go out of their way to make a customer feel as if they are committing a federal offense for asking about a discount as a means of combating the practice. This too is well within the dealers commercial prerogative, but I simply react to it for what it is.....a business tactic. I would never allow such a thing to impact me personally or emotionally.

I don't find much of an argument with any of that. I just personally don't ask directly, that's just me personally as I am not comfortable with assuming certain things. I like to leave it entirely up to the dealer. As you say, the dealer has full discretion and rightfully so. Like I said with the whole having discussions with said dealer, it helps both parties to better know where they are coming from and usually results in positive things for both parties. In audio world though there is usually very little difference in price from one dealer to the next (at least as I have found), if any, as everything is based off MSRP and goes from there. So in my thinking using up a dealer's time and resources in dishonest fashion is not only a waste of the said dealer's time (which only serves to kill a potentially good relation), but also a fool's errand for the person doing such a thing. That person will find rather quickly that while anyone else who does things in honest fashion will get deals, the dishonest person get's left out in the cold and will have to hunt to find a dealer willing to do business with him and will unlikely get any deals if the dishonest person even finds a willing dealer.
The dealer network can be tighter than one thinks.

 

[MusicDirector]

Just because someone has a pretty good idea what the margins are on various products doesn't mean they have to share that information across the forums. As Mike pointed out in his earlier lengthly post many individuals don't understand what those margins have to cover. They think that is XX% profit. On top of that you will have individuals who pay MSRP and will feel ripped off by someone posting they shopped 3 dealers then got a great discount from one of them. He then gets pissed at the dealer when he was happy when he walked out the door.

That's why rule number two in my book (closely following rule number one which is honesty), is never publicly share any deal you may have received from any dealer you may have worked with.

 

[rockitman]

I never pay full price. There is always room when bought through a retailer.

 

[FlexibleAudio]

Just because someone has a pretty good idea what the margins are on various products doesn't mean they have to share that information across the forums. As Mike pointed out in his earlier lengthly post many individuals don't understand what those margins have to cover. They think that is XX% profit. On top of that you will have individuals who pay MSRP and will feel ripped off by someone posting they shopped 3 dealers then got a great discount from one of them. He then gets pissed at the dealer when he was happy when he walked out the door.

Yes Jim, I think I understand these points.

First Bold: IMO it doesn't matter what the consumer thinks about the dealers profit margin; it matters what the dealer thinks about his profit margins and how he decides to price his services.

Second Bold: So if I understand you, we are not supposed to talk about such matters on an audio forum, the purpose of which is to enlighten members on matters related to audio, for fear another member may benefit from such discussions and avoid paying an above market price. I am having trouble seeing why that should be the case. If the seller took an order and sold at msrp without bringing any additional value, the buyer should be upset; if the seller brought additional value by providing auditions, loaners, advisory services, etc., then the buyers has no one to be angry with but himself.

The counter argument to my position is that for some unexplained reason high-end audio should behave differently than other free markets. In this false market, sellers need to be protected by customers who are obligated to pay a price higher than the seller would have otherwise sold their product at in a free market. Why should this be the case?

Dealers that don't protect themselves from consumers who steal their services will be run out of business by the internet price-only sellers (as they should be). Savvy dealers that find a way to shape their business models so they are compensated for their services will survive as long as the market continues to value those services at levels in excess of the cost of capital it takes to provide them.

 

[Myles B. Astor]

I have a unique perspective on this question. I was a consumer of high end audio equipment for over 35 years before becoming a dealer. To say that I was previously unaware (ignorant?) of the trials and tribulations of being a dealer would be an understatement.

Sitting on the other side of the desk gives one a unique perspective. I had previously assumed it was no big deal to ask, and certainly no big deal to get a nice discount. I mean, something is better than nothing, right? If we assume for a moment that the standard industry markup is X%, then asking for Y% should be no big deal. As an example, 30% and ask for 20% off. The dealer is still making 10%, so who cares? Again, something is better than nothing? Well….not so fast….

From the dealers perspective, they have invested tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of dollars in OBTAINING brands. You don’t think you can just call up good old McIntosh or ARC or whomever and say, “hey, I’m a nice guy, can I sell your product?” HA! What if you were to learn that the dealer must first get the OK from the manufacturer by going through an extensive background check, then second, buy at least $50,000 of “demo” gear (read: not to be sold for X number of years)? How many 10% deals must the dealer make to pay back that initial investment in the line?

Next, what about keeping a manufacturer? Do you think you just do the one buy in of $50,000 and everything is honky dory after that? HA! Think again. When manufacturers come out with new products, they EXPECT/INSIST/STRONGLY ENCOURAGE a dealer to buy that new product as a DEMO too! So the $50,000 easily turns into $100,000 over a number of years.

Next, let’s talk about customer support. If the dealer sells a product which requires a little more hand holding like a Devialet or a Lumin, do you think 10% is going to cover his/her time? It is not uncommon for me to be on the phone with a customer for 8, 10 or more hours over the initial 30 day period….especially with a product like Devialet.

I can just hear people now, “oh, I won’t need support!” HA! Trust me, the ones asking for the biggest discounts are the ones who WILL need the most support.

Next, dealers work closely with manufacturers and distributors and with few exceptions, discounting is HEAVILY discouraged. It’s a lose/lose/lose situation and manufacturers/distributors have plenty of real life examples.

Finally, let’s talk about a dealer selling against himself. Huh? What? What do you mean Mike? By discounting a product heavily, it encourages excessive flipping (yes, yes, this is the pot calling the kettle black, but it's still a fact). The dealer sells product A for $5000 (a 30% discount let’s say). Two months, hell, two weeks later its on Audiogon for $4800. The dealer has a pending sale which he loses to the guy who sees that great deal on Audiogon and buys it used instead.

I had an experienced dealer tell me one time, “I will never discount more than what I earn.” Meaning, if it’s a 30% line, he won’t give 15%. He may only give 10% or 12%, if anything at all.

At the end of the day, it may surprise some audiophiles to learn that there are actually two types of buyers. First, is the audiophile. They think they know everything and want the biggest discount. Second, is the very wealthy customer. They don’t know the difference between an amp and a DAC, but they love love love music, they want the best, they will pay for the best (and rarely ask for a discount), but they EXPECT world-class, white glove service. If something isn’t working, you’re racing to their house as fast as you can to get it fixed. Trust me.

So, what’s the solution? I think both the consumer and the dealer need to work together. Dealers have already been mostly forced out of a B&M situation due to squeezing margins and falling profit margins. At the end of the day, it’s all about relationships. Building a long term relationship between a dealer and a consumer is a win/win for everyone. I myself have tried to be creative. Providing free cables in lieu of a big discount as an example. Taking trades is another. Packaging components together is yet another.

So as long as there are consumers, there will continue to be expectations of a discount. We are all consumers. They are sellers, we are buyers and visa versa. We will all continue to negotiate the best price on whatever we buy - a car, appliances, etc. MSRP is the starting point. But a little perspective may aid in the understanding of the "other side".

You should make that reply a sticky and even expand on that because you only touched the tip of the iceberg here.


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[Myles B. Astor]

I have saved 10's of thousands negotiating , audio gear. The dealers all seemed happy taking payment. Business is business. I have seen dealers selling new equipment on audiogon as used, to just move more gear and make something less than full retail. It's generally not in limited supply.
We are living in a Circus.

PS
Even Best Buy's Magnolia offers deals on their high end line, by throwing equipment in, that translates into a nice discount. Which surprised me!

One will find dealers moving equipment at cost just because they need to 1) show a manufacturer that they are selling that line.; and 2) keep that line. But is that good?


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[Myles B. Astor]

I think one thing that is being missed (and an unmentioned cost) is time is money to a dealer. In the end, the dealer is providing a service and hopefully helping the customer put together the best system possible for the money. And spending time letting their customer listen in the store. (But the internet teaches people otherwise eg. Listen at the brick and mortar and buy online.) But that service can conflict with that customer who comes in with their say Stereophile recommended components list (not to pick on SP).


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[CPP]

I think one thing that is being missed (and an unmentioned cost) is time is money to a dealer. In the end, the dealer is providing a service and hopefully helping the customer put together the best system possible for the money. And spending time letting their customer listen in the store. (But the internet teaches people otherwise eg. Listen at the brick and mortar and buy online.) But that service can conflict with that customer who comes in with their say Stereophile recommended components list (not to pick on SP).


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Myles not sure I agree with you 100% on one point. In most of the stores I have been in, they are usually empty of customers, there is NO swinging door of customer in and out all day where the sale person is busy waiting on 2 chl customers. The two stores I frequent both have a decent longevity in their respective areas and I know these owners personally. This money your talking about ( Time is money), Myles these salesmen / consultants get paid by the hour, most work a 8 hour day and get paid for their labor regardless if a customer comes in or not. Sure it cost a dealer and sales are required to stay in business, pay the rent, utilities, insurance. Sure they take the time ( time is possible money) and assist a 2 chl buyer with in store demo's after all, like the owner told me, "what are we going to do turn the customer away", it ain't going to happen. As a FYI; These stores also had to branch out into HT, not because they wanted to, its because they had to and that is where they are making their money. Families would rather have wize bang custom high dollar HT rooms the whole family and friends can enjoy than a dedicated 2 chl room with a (1) chair and a morgue setting. I asked one store why a few months ago, who has been in business since 1982, "it was either close the business or make money.


And then there are the internet stores, NO customer walk-ins, sure they sell some "high end stuff" that is not usually found in walk-in stores but do they maintain stock of most popular models or just the ones the owner wishes to have at hand to listen to, and sell. Sure you can deduct a % of your utilities, your area of business within your home, your computer and server equipment as they say cost of doing business and you can show a loss for a few years as your business ramps up, but I would rather see it, feel it and hear it. And trying to get service from someone that is 100's or even 1000's of miles away is possible but at times difficult. Sometimes you have no other choice but to listen at a B&M store, unless you can find a internet store that will let you trial a piece of gear for 30 days, but in the end, it all comes down to the customer and the money they are going to spend and the service offer by the seller which drives repeat business and that to the owner is money. Is it correct to purchase from someone else, I say no, but it comes down to the attitude of the seller and the buyer and the confidence the buyer has for service from the seller., be it an internet store or a B&M.

And the Stereophile recommended list, I would bet 99.9 % of the stores in the world can't support the list, so you shop using whatever means is at your disposal.

 

[Steve]

It works differently in Australia.

There is justification to get close to SRRP if the dealer/retailer stocks product, has comprehensive showrooms with current product, has working systems, provide professional installation services.

Paying RRP for any brown goods is atypical and gets down to demographics. Those that can't really afford it usually pay full price or more. Retailers carry minimal stock and imports (almost everything) are JIT demand driven. The real price is usually pegged to the USD. AUD falls, price goes up proportionally plus 15% landing. Retailer gets a deposit, 10-50% or 100% up front for the little player. Product lands in 4-6 weeks. Customer pays balance, walks out with a cardboard box with the product inside. Fingers crossed it is not DOA. 20% of the time it is DOA. Another 4-6 weeks, 5% DOA, third time lucky 4-6 weeks. If the customer needs professional installation services, the project is quoted. Small jobs may be negotiated into the SRRP. Discount is typically already factored into the dealer sell price and often there are two discount tiers. The second tier bites into the dealer margin.

There is cream is in the cables and a change of cable choice generally changes the whole quote.

Even in the large chain stores, Australians don't pay RRP for big brand budget brown goods. It is customary to ask for the best price. If you want additional service, you generally pay more. The chain stores try to make up for it by selling extended warranty insurance and finance. Finance is offered at the RRP strike.

Smart shopper is research savvy, knows what they want and has already factored a strike price.

 

[randrew2]

Here's a question: does sticking hard to MSRP ever make sense?

Food for thought: $1400 Triton 7 speakers. Lugging speakers over to the customers, unboxing them, setting them up, etc. With such a small $ margin already, why would a dealer bother discounting?

Which brings me to another, what I'll call, market approach. One of the things that a dealer has to look at is their target market. There are dealers that sell lower priced products, such as Golden Ear, Integra, Yamaha, Boston Acoustics, Definitive Technology, etc. Then on the flip side are dealers that sell more higher priced gear such as McIntosh, ARC, Magico, Wilson, etc.

The challenge for the lower priced product dealer is the margins are smaller in terms of dollars, making it difficult to give any kind of discount at all - especially when you factor in B&M costs - but, on the plus side, the market potential is bigger. The challenge for the dealer dealing in higher priced items is that there is a larger margin dollar, but the potential buyer market is smaller.

What I found in my research in speaking with over a dozen different dealers was that the lower priced item buyer was much more of a customer service challenge. They wanted the biggest percentage discount and they were more likely to shop your price. All of them indicated there was still a lot of time spent "hand holding". Also, their loyalty was also not as strong. These of course are general statements, but through the experience of these dealers, what they had experienced more often than not. On the flip side, the customer purchasing higher priced gear has a higher level of expectation of service - any time or day. Contrast buying $1400 speakers with $200,000 speakers. How many trips will each dealer make back to the customers to ensure the speakers are placed properly, etc. There is only so much money in a $1400 speaker sale to justify time and trips. Experienced dealers, manufacturers and distributors have all said "don't discount too much, if at all, because there will be after sales service required."

At the end of the day, I strive to provide the best service I can, but my point is back to an understanding of "the other side" and margin dollars, rather than percentages.

I'm the new guy on the block but I'll head to the stage. First of all Mike thanks for AudioShark. This is my own recent personal experience with a speaker purchase. I purchased a pair of speakers on eBay that would classify as a lower priced product. Not Wal-Mart stuff but a well known manufacturer that you would find at shops with the list that Mike wrote. More then $1400 but not 200K. They were sold as "refurbished" This seller we shall call Mary123 has been selling this speaker that was released in 2014 for more then a year that I know of. 10 would be listed, 8 would sell and then the listing was updated back to 10. I watched this for some time as I was interested in the speakers and at 45% off of list that made me even more interested. After a few months I pulled the trigger after seeing dozens if not hundreds of these speakers sell as well as getting good feedback. I received the speakers via Conway trucking. They were packed well on a wood pallet that the delivery guy brought via hand lift from his semi to the front door. He then helped to get the speaker boxes off of the pallet and into the house. Really good service. After unpacking the speakers if they were not new, one would never know. Everything looked as it should, not even a wrinkle in the owners manual. Hooked them up and have been more then satisfied. For me this was an excellent purchase. Now for the part that I found interesting......Of coarse the trucking company provided me with a receipt. The receipt like all of them have a shippers address. Okay, google and google earth is your friend.......The shipper's address was......wait......wait.....it was the address of the speaker manufacturer! So either ebay user Mary123 is the speaker manufacturer or they drop shipped it. Either way the speakers were shipped from the speaker manufacturer. Whatever the case this can not help the sales of their dealer network which is extensive. I did not find the need to mention the real eBay_ID or the speaker manufacture but I wouldn't be surprised if this type of actively is widespread. You can like eBay or not but they can move a lot of product for a company. It's not just the retail buyer/dealer relationship(local or internet) involved in a sale as it appears I either directly or indirectly purchased from the manufacture that has a well known dealer network. Who knows.....Maybe they had a truck accident, train derailment, or manufacturing defect that was fixed that caused them to sell "refurbished" speakers or maybe they are as new as any others. 20 years ago I would have purchased these locally or maybe I'd call 6th avenue electronics in Brooklyn if I was feeling brave. My purchase is one reason why we have one home audio shop in town(not including best buy, Wal-Mart etc.) and not 6 or 7 of them like 30 years ago.

 

[MusicDirector]

Next, let’s talk about customer support. If the dealer sells a product which requires a little more hand holding like a Devialet or a Lumin, do you think 10% is going to cover his/her time? It is not uncommon for me to be on the phone with a customer for 8, 10 or more hours over the initial 30 day period….especially with a product like Devialet.

I can just hear people now, “oh, I won’t need support!” HA! Trust me, the ones asking for the biggest discounts are the ones who WILL need the most support.

At the end of the day, it may surprise some audiophiles to learn that there are actually two types of buyers. First, is the audiophile. They think they know everything and want the biggest discount. Second, is the very wealthy customer. They don’t know the difference between an amp and a DAC, but they love love love music, they want the best, they will pay for the best (and rarely ask for a discount), but they EXPECT world-class, white glove service. If something isn’t working, you’re racing to their house as fast as you can to get it fixed. Trust me.

So, what’s the solution? I think both the consumer and the dealer need to work together. Dealers have already been mostly forced out of a B&M situation due to squeezing margins and falling profit margins. At the end of the day, it’s all about relationships. Building a long term relationship between a dealer and a consumer is a win/win for everyone. I myself have tried to be creative. Providing free cables in lieu of a big discount as an example. Taking trades is another. Packaging components together is yet another.

So as long as there are consumers, there will continue to be expectations of a discount. We are all consumers. They are sellers, we are buyers and visa versa. We will all continue to negotiate the best price on whatever we buy - a car, appliances, etc. MSRP is the starting point. But a little perspective may aid in the understanding of the "other side".

Paragraph #1 = My thought or opinion to that remains like I said, If you can't at least figure out the basics or do some homework or can't follow instructions in the manual (yes, some manuals are not worth the paper they are printed on or CD they are burned to) or instructions from the dealer, then you have no business trying to purchase the item. I mean at least discuss said item with a good dealer who has played with it at least. Doing any of that will only help you and the dealer.

Sentence #2 = I'm sure that happens a lot, but with my statement above, I would imagine that there are those who don't need a ton of hand holding?

Paragraph #3 = I'm neither of those types of buyer and not even an audiophile. So while I understand what you said, I can't relate to it. I hope your not saying those are the only types of buyers, period.

Your solution is a good one and sometimes better than a discount! (I got that type of solution with my RCM and to my mind it was way better than any discount. Except something illogical like 50%, but again, that is illogical).
Yes, as consumers we all appreciate a deal and we appreciate good service (or at least most of us do). For me personally, I choose not to take those for granted.

Just my thoughts on it.

 

[Paul]

You can't ask for a discount on green machine brand. Its against their law