Interesting info re: digital cable "deniers"

[Spock]

I presume this person would fit your description of a "denier". (?)

No. To me, those are the real "audio fools"!

Does a person go in to the "denier" category if they are skeptical of even one thing you believe in?

It´s not a personal question but if this person denies what I say that I hear just because he doesn't listen, then, Yes!
I have never seen an UFO. Should i go to an UFO forum and tell anyone who has seen one that they are wrong and paranoid?
Even if only one person sees a “phenomenon” it does not mean that it is not true.

…and for things like cables..DEPENDING

There are lots of guys on you tube who guarantee that cables do not make any difference (AC cables by the way) but they never heard them. They just measured!! :disbelief:

…but I'm quite open to good evidence for them.

What have you made to search that "good evidence"? Do you try to listen our just read some white paper?

I have a feeling you might see people like Amir from the ASR forum as a "denier."

Yes. His "science" can´t make me have better sound so, i´m not interested!

While you may only see a negative if someone is skeptical of something you believe in, very often these people have good technical chops and offer plenty of positive information as to how electronics really work.

Yes and no. They surely know a lot about electronics, but they don´t know nothing about "audio". What they do is to fit the "phenomenon" in their knowledge. They don´t try to find if the phenomenon is real. Since they have no explanation, they simply denie that possibility. The opposite of what real science (should) do.

Unless you recognize these facts, you will never understand objections to some audiophile/high-end marketing claims.

That is another question. I have no doubt that there is a lot of snake oil in (some) marketing claims.

I hope I'm wrong, though.

Me too, I hope you are wrong.
And I hope that all we live enough to "see" real science discover the truth behind these strange things on audio.

Mike,
A highly resolving system can indeed show the differences in cables. Even an expensive high capacitance cable Vs an expensive low capacitance cable can have dramatic differences. Silver Vs copper. Silver/gold Vs pure silver. Solid core Vs stranded. On and on and on.

Of course. So easy to listen!

Mike,
If you believe this is a good idea….

External transmission line project? :lol:

why waste your time with deniers if you are sure about your own experience?

To prevent this hobby from dying. At least for now because I think it will only be a matter of time. The deniers like to have the last word and leave the statement of their principles in the air and this misleads many more people (namely new people). Although we live in a hypercomplex society, it is clear that people are trying to simplify everything. From politics to everything else. Contrary to true scientific thinking and true knowledge, each person asserts his truth as finished and unassailable. Science is elevated to the place of God, but a lesser God who explains nothing because he knows nothing. Nietzsche said that everything was up for debate, even taste! Today, no way because everything has to be parameterized and according to the rules or it is considered deviant. Minimal thought.

Remember that "What we know is a drop, what we don´t know is an ocean!"


Cheers to all of you!

 

[AJ Soundfield]

I thought you and MottTheHoople were both members of the Amir fan club known as ASR. Aren't you both singing from the same sheet of music?

Wow, you're dinosaur aging yourself there Mark, MottTheHoople!, haven't heard that one in a while. Nope, I've invited Amir several times to attend audio shows where I was exhibiting, but he said I scared him. Go figure.

 

[a.wayne]

Thats strange , you’re a big class D fan like Amir , matching technical prowess scares him I guess ..!

 

[rbbert]

...
The flip side is that I've personally heard hundreds of audiophile systems. Folks who can hear everything under the sun, but not out of phase speakers, non functional drivers, booming bass modes, distortions, hiss, snap, crackle, pop, etc. etc. If that makes me a Denier, guilty as charged!
...
AJ

Back when I was a frequent audio show visitor I would notice some of these problems in exhibitors' systems (only a few, but really there shouldn't have been any). To be fair, even if the exhibitor hadn't noticed it prior to my mentioning a problem, he/she was usually quick to identify the source of the problem and correct it. As to why other attendees hadn't already noticed and commented on whatever the problem was I have no idea (but I'll bet AJ does )

 

[rbbert]

Wow, you're dinosaur aging yourself there Mark, MottTheHoople!, haven't heard that one in a while. Nope, I've invited Amir several times to attend audio shows where I was exhibiting, but he said I scared him. Go figure.

It's because Amir has poor audio processing abilities, unlike you. As a related question, who here would buy a system from Amir (realizing that his focus is on A/V rather than pure audio)?

Please remember that despite its name, ASR doesn't actually involve science, only measurements (which are meaningful only when compared to other measurements; there is nothing scientific about this)

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Evidently my talking about the difference in sound between $30 mass market switches and which of the $10 ethernet cables sounded the best is STILL too much for these people:

 

[Mike]

Evidently my talking about the difference in sound between $30 mass market switches and which of the $10 ethernet cables sounded the best is STILL too much for these people:

View attachment 32057

Let’s see his system and see him list his experience A/B’ing different switches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Audio 1]

Evidently my talking about the difference in sound between $30 mass market switches and which of the $10 ethernet cables sounded the best is STILL too much for these people:

View attachment 32057

What is the penalty for violating the audiophile code of ethics? Where do people even dream up this rhetoric?

 

[Michaels HiFi]

What is the penalty for violating the audiophile code of ethics? Where do people even dream up this rhetoric?

I know, right?

It's OK if they can't hear a difference. But notice how they act - that people with hearing / high end system are evil scammers and need to be called out.

They can never live their lives in peace and respect other opinions. Instead they go around trying to pick fights. Typically they won't leave one comment - they will then go bomb with 10, 12, and 15 comments on the vids within 2 minutes.

And they will never, ever stop until you admit you are wrong but they do it in the name of being "open minded". If they were so open minded, why can't they just leave us alone and respect our opinions instead of having their own crusade of self righteousness?

 

[Puma Cat]

Who cares what Robert Pedroza thinks?

“Tranquility…comes when you stop caring what they say. Or think, or do. Only what you do.” - Marcus Aurelius

We covered this ground yesterday. Let's move on to more productive actions e.g. seeking new data (Data. NOT supposition or opinions), appropriate analysis of said data, and thus, obtain INSIGHT about ACTIONS we can take to achieve our AIMS.

 

[Michaels HiFi]

Who cares what Robert Pedroza thinks?

“Tranquility…comes when you stop caring what they say. Or think, or do. Only what you do.” - Marcus Aurelius

We covered this ground yesterday. Let's move on to more productive actions e.g. seeking new data (Data. NOT supposition or opinions), appropriate analysis of said data, and thus, obtain INSIGHT about ACTIONS we can take to achieve our AIMS.

Simply an observation that it's not about 'price' in their daily crusade as they so often claim but just even the concept in general. No worries - I deleted the 14 messages he sent.