Interesting info re: digital cable "deniers"

MattHooper said:
Not really. It's fairly common on ASR for the opinion of anyone who might buy in to some audiophile "voodoo" to be discounted. This is especially true on the attitude towards purely subjective audio reviews, which are often dismissed on the site. "That nutjob talks up expensive cables" or "believes something idiotic" so "his reviews can be dismissed as poppycock."
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Right, but this is what I responded to you saying
As I've argued over on ASR, even if we presume there are aspects of a system chosen by a purely "subjective" audiophile that may be voo-doo, that doesn't mean the audiophile hasn't a good sense of sound, hasn't paid attention also to what does make sonic differences, and hasn't arrived at a good sounding system.
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Which is not the same thing.
If someone claims that what I bolded doesn't exist, they're an idiot. ASR is full of them, but I've yet to see such a claim. Feel free to link.
Or not. Life is too short to fret over audio silliness.

cheers,

AJ
 
AJ Soundfield said:
Right, but this is what I responded to you saying

Which is not the same thing.
If someone claims that what I bolded doesn't exist, they're an idiot. ASR is full of them, but I've yet to see such a claim. Feel free to link.
Or not. Life is too short to fret over audio silliness.

cheers,

AJ
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I wasn't arguing that the ASR folk don't believe a purely subjectivist or voodoo-believing audiophile can't somehow arrive at a good sounding system. I bring up that example to remind, or illustrate, that "being subject to bias effects" is not an automatic reason to reject someone's subjective ability to discern real sonic effects. So an audiophile may hear imaginary things between his expensive new AC cable and a stock cable, but he may also be quite perceptive in detecting the qualities of his speaker, it's positioning in the room, how it's working with an amp etc, to still arrive at good sound. It's just an example to make a larger point. I've known audiophiles who think their cable risers change the sound of their system. I'm skeptical. But they have also been bang-on in describing the overall sound of their system, or of describing the sonic characteristics of their speakers, once I heard it. (Not always, but often enough).

Fremer, for instance, is regularly castigated on ASR for propounding B.S. regarding vinyl and other things, so you get "the guy imagines things so I'm going to discount all his opinions and reviews." But that doesn't mean Fremer hasn't been quite perceptive in, for instance, many of his speaker reviews. (I have found him to be so, whenever I've compared what I hear in regards to speakers that he has reviewed).
 
MattHooper said:
As I've argued over on ASR, even if we presume there are aspects of a system chosen by a purely "subjective" audiophile that may be voo-doo, that doesn't mean the audiophile hasn't a good sense of sound, hasn't paid attention also to what does make sonic differences, and hasn't arrived at a good sounding system.


I wasn't arguing that the ASR folk don't believe a purely subjectivist or voodoo-believing audiophile can't somehow arrive at a good sounding system.
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Ok I give up. Let agree on the one audiophile thing we agree on. That Michaels Minute can't be wrong. Good night, Bucs about to kick off.

cheers,

AJ
 
Most of these devices creating interference didn’t even exist 40 years ago, before digital became more mainstream. Now we have to pay attention.

As for the rest of this thread:
TL:DR
 
Indeed modern day homes can have a lot of noise inducing gadgets
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Most of these interference-creating devices didn’t even exist 40 years ago, before digital became more mainstream. Now we have to pay attention.

As for the rest of this thread:
TL : DR
 
Ahhhh....the joys of the angry cable denier on FB and YouTube. I awoke to many messages from this guy upset I suggested there is a difference in sound between cables. . Of course he tried to link to ASR to prove me wrong. LOL.

I asked him what his system was and had he ever actually tried a test for himself - he refused to answer that. Just called us snake oil salesmen.

I can't tell you the number of messages on a daily basis these angry cable deniers send. It's like they wake up every morning in a miserable state just trying to take on the world.
 

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Interesting info re: digital cable "deniers"

MichaelsMinute said:
Ahhhh....the joys of the angry cable denier on FB and YouTube. I awoke to many messages from this guy upset I suggested there is a difference in sound between cables. . Of course he tried to link to ASR to prove me wrong. LOL.

I asked him what his system was and had he ever actually tried a test for himself - he refused to answer that. Just called us snake oil salesmen.

I can't tell you the number of messages on a daily basis these angry cable deniers send. It's like they wake up every morning in a miserable state just trying to take on the world.
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Mike,

If you believe this is a good idea….

5d5938dcd6394b954cd3567c14ca1bf4.jpg


Or your subwoofer looks like this:

37aaf2e79576df5ab565da644bcdf2f3.jpg


Or your system is quite simple like this:

940306a09ad147bcdf58abc44daf72d1.jpg



Then cables don’t matter and you’re busy telling everyone they believe in snake oil.

We have done numerous cable demonstrations changing only one cable and converted all the deniers. A highly resolving system can indeed show the differences in cables. Even an expensive high capacitance cable Vs an expensive low capacitance cable can have dramatic differences. Silver Vs copper. Silver/gold Vs pure silver. Solid core Vs stranded. On and on and on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro on
 
Re: Interesting info re: digital cable "deniers"

Mike said:
Mike,

If you believe this is a good idea….

5d5938dcd6394b954cd3567c14ca1bf4.jpg


Or your subwoofer looks like this:

37aaf2e79576df5ab565da644bcdf2f3.jpg


Or your system is quite simple like this:

940306a09ad147bcdf58abc44daf72d1.jpg



Then cables don’t matter and you’re busy telling everyone they believe in snake oil.

We have done numerous cable demonstrations changing only one cable and converted all the deniers. A highly resolving system can indeed show the differences in cables. Even an expensive high capacitance cable Vs an expensive low capacitance cable can have dramatic differences. Silver Vs copper. Silver/gold Vs pure silver. Solid core Vs stranded. On and on and on.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro on
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These people are definitely a unique breed of angry birds.
 
u-sound said:
why waste your time with deniers if you are sure about your own experience?
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They seek out vids and posts they believe spreads the "evil snake oil" and that we are "forcing people to buy products that don't work" then send their repeated nasty and derogatory messages and posts. The stuff they send in the messages frankly shows the mentality of these people.

I've learned there is no talking with them and to just block them from the start. These people who send these message (not the ones who have a normal adult conversation whom I respect their differing opinion) get REALLY angry at these vids posts and are convinced they are somehow victims.
 
This guy thinks me liking a $30 switch is an expensive ripoff.

They don't even watch the vids - the cable denying trolls are just out to spread misery and anger.

Screen Shot 2023-01-17 at 10.32.10 AM.png
 
u-sound said:
why waste your time with deniers if you are sure about your own experience?
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Deep insecurity fearing it all unravels when "Trust ears, just listen" of course.
Btw, like Mike, I've done my own analog cable test on believers (unbeknownst to them), though probably on a much larger scale. Same results. Fun stuff.😊
Pretty sure the thread was about Digital cables though, presumably not broken.
 
Puma Cat said:
“Tranquility…comes when you stop caring what they say. Or think, or do. Only what you do.” - Marcus Aurelius, advocate of Stoicism.
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i think you get the most fun when you enjoy what they say and laugh about.
take it as entertainement
 
Puma Cat said:
“Tranquility…comes when you stop caring what they say. Or think, or do. Only what you do.” - Marcus Aurelius, advocate of Stoicism.
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For sure. I couldn't care less what they or the snark-bots on forums think (gotta love the block feature).

I post it as an interesting footnote on the anger of these deniers and how they seek out conflict as trolls.
 
well michael, you are posting videos with strange content to the public, so what do you expect?
(strange content to thouse who didnt try or do not care or generally are against anything)

also, whatever you say will find pro and contra people. you could have said there is no difference for example
 
u-sound said:
why waste your time with deniers if you are sure about your own experience?
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I guess one may as well ask the question "Why be open minded?"

Personally, I'm never so sure of my own experience (or expertise) to think I can't be wrong. Nor do I want to close myself off from alternative viewpoints. Otherwise we are practicing a form of dogmatism, right? We can end up retreating to echo-chambers were our beliefs will only be re-enforced.

I mean, that certainly is a common human inclination. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's a good one. :-)
 
MattHooper said:
Personally, I'm never so sure of my own experience (or expertise) to think I can't be wrong.
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I know a place you can go to correct that.
Btw, as I linked earlier, it also possible for both "sides" to be both right and both wrong at the same time. But just lack ability to understand why.
Since you're new here, I actually advocate for audiophiles to buy whatever cables, amps, lifters, DACs, etc that pleases them most, regardless of price, ridiculousness, contentiousness, "street cred", etc, etc.
Because in the end, we don't "just listen/trust ears" when we sit back and queue up that tune. Under those circumstances, all senses must be pleased. By all means, do. The science is unequivocal there.

cheers,

AJ
 
I thought you and MottTheHoople were both members of the Amir fan club known as ASR. Aren't you both singing from the same sheet of music?
 
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