In search of a quality FM Antenna, even a DIY solution...

[chops]

So tell me, do any of you guys have experience with DIY antennas?

As I mentioned in the tuner thread, I'm just using a simple folded dipole "T", and in fact just ordered another one that will be here this Friday along with the new to me Yamaha TX-1000 which is also arriving Friday. Yes, I ordered another one of these simple dipoles for now, but this one that I just ordered has the PAL F-connector built onto it. I was going to buy a 300 to 75 ohm adapter at RatShack which costs $6.99 + tax. I ordered the entire antenna on Amazon with free shipping for $5.99, and no tax! Yes, it's only one dollar, but it's also one less connection required.

Anyway, I'm getting sidetracked here...

For starters, the wall I have the dipole on faces north and south which is a good thing, as the two major cities the radio stations are coming from are to the east and west of me (Tampa & Orlando), and since these dipoles are directional, that works out to my advantage as my town in equal distance between the two, about 50 miles each way. Plus the fact of being roughly 25' above ground, being on the 3rd floor also helps.

The reason I'm asking about DIY antennas is because even though some of these stations come in strong and clear, some of them come in strong but with a bit of static. Two of which come to mind, both in Tampa and not too far from each other either, as in literally right down the street from each other. Probably just a mile or two. One is 88.5 WMNF, with radiated power of 6,650 watts and elevation of 1539 feet. I get a full strength signal and it comes in crystal clear. Then right next to it is 89.7 WUSF with a radiated power of 69,000 watts and an elevation of 1033 feet. Again, a full strength signal, but with a bit of static.

I'm guessing that maybe because my tuner (Yamaha TX-540) has no way of de-tuning and/or attenuating the signal, it's overloading the poor thing and causing distortion and such. I know for a fact it does that on a few of the other stations, but I could care less about them because they are only rap and hip-hop. Then again, since this is actually hiss/static and not distortion, I'm not too sure what the cause is.

I eventually want something better than these standard, cheap dipoles, and possibly with a little gain without the use of amplification. I was considering the Magnum Dynalab ST-2, but I keep getting mixed reviews about it. It's omni-directional, so automatically it has less gain than the dipole. A lot of people say they get better results with the folded dipoles!

I'm looking into something like a full bandwidth loop antenna, or even a cubical quad antenna, both of which can have an average gain of 3+ dB. That's supposed to be the equivalent of double the radiated power output of the station. This is good since an even stronger signal is a quieter signal in theory, and the TX-1000 has very high overload rejection. Plus, it has the ability to de-tune and/or attenuate the signal. Building one of these types of antennas would also help me pull in a couple of desirable yet weak stations that I used to listen to a long time ago. Oddly enough, I can pick them up in my car fairly decently, so I know they still play good music.

BTW, being in an apartment, there's no option for an external antenna as much as I'd like one.

So, if anyone has any suggestions, please feel free to pitch in!

 

[Mrppv]

When I had my tuner set up (a restored Sansui TU-717), I first used the dipole T. I switched to one of those aluminum FM / TV antennas that are normally installed on a rooftop, but kept it indoors; the room had a high ceiling, so basically, it was like installing the antenna in the equivalent of an attic space.

It had no gain, but I rigged it so that it could be turned, which made it directional, and that definitely helped with some stations. Other than that it wasn't a ton better than the "T". Just mentioning it because although you said you can't install an external antenna, it is possible to use one indoors (if you have the height and don't mind the looks).

 

[Jim Smith]

Chops,

I was a Magnum Dynalab dealer back in the 80s. Their antenna was a mixed bag, at best. So was the Terk IIRC, although it was marginally better than the MD at the time.

Never heard any indoor antenna that really got the job done.

Back in the 70s, I was a tuner junkie, and had several high-end tuners and an antenna with rotors. On Sunday nights, the local PBS station would broadcast 15 ips copies of my master tapes and my LPs. I made the copies on my ReVox 15 ips half-track machine. The engineer was a friend/client of mine, and he carefully bypassed the compressors and gain riding circuits for that weekly broadcast.

It was really interesting to compare various antennae & high-end tuners reproducing the broadcast of a source that I had in my listening room.

Back then, the best antenna overall was probably the FM-4.

Don't think it's available now.

You might want to visit this page:

http://www.pnwvhfs.org/articles/beyondfm/beyond_fm4.html

While they focus on outdoor antennae, they are super knowledgeable about FM and one of their other articles may help.

I had the apartment issue once, and was fortunate enough to get my FM-4 antenna mounted on the roof and the cable down several floors into to my apt. Couldn't rotate it, though....

Good Luck!

Jim

 

[Randy Myers]

Hey Charles, I am trying to find a good in door antenna choice myself. I tried a basic Terk, not good enough... a Magnum Dynalab SR100... pulled station ok, but was weird.. sharp wire strip edges, center rod had to be adjusted, but most importantly, really cheaply built... then I tried the Terk FM50, their top FM antenna. Works fine, but bulky, BIG, and will be hard to hide. Works fine behind window shad, but no place to put in new house. A Godar is suppose to arrive todäy, , maybe tomorrow... Dan and others rated it well in the past, but we will see. They advertise it as a top notch in doors antenna. We will see...

 

[chops]

Yeah, that probably wouldn't go over too well with my other half. Then again, I wouldn't like it much either myself. Even if we do have a 12' tall vaulted ceiling. Don't think that the thought hasn't crossed my mine at least once though. Haha

When I had my tuner set up (a restored Sansui TU-717), I first used the dipole T. I switched to one of those aluminum FM / TV antennas that are normally installed on a rooftop, but kept it indoors; the room had a high ceiling, so basically, it was like installing the antenna in the equivalent of an attic space.

It had no gain, but I rigged it so that it could be turned, which made it directional, and that definitely helped with some stations. Other than that it wasn't a ton better than the "T". Just mentioning it because although you said you can't install an external antenna, it is possible to use one indoors (if you have the height and don't mind the looks).

Jim, that's similar to what my father used to do when we lived up in East Hartford, CT. An NPR station up there (don't know where it was located) used to broadcast a show called Pipedreams, which of course all they played was pipe organ music from all around the world. At the time he had a Technics ST-8077 tuner and their broadcast quality was excellent, so he used to record them on his one of several Nakamichi 680DX or 682DX cassette decks. To this day, I still listen to those cassettes, and they still sound excellent, like they were recorded off of vinyl. And there's well over 50 of those tapes, all Maxell UD XL II's.

I'll look into that site and see if there's anything of any value towards what I want to do. Thanks!

Chops,

I was a Magnum Dynalab dealer back in the 80s. Their antenna was a mixed bag, at best. So was the Terk IIRC, although it was marginally better than the MD at the time.

Never heard any indoor antenna that really got the job done.

Back in the 70s, I was a tuner junkie, and had several high-end tuners and an antenna with rotors. On Sunday nights, the local PBS station would broadcast 15 ips copies of my master tapes and my LPs. I made the copies on my ReVox 15 ips half-track machine. The engineer was a friend/client of mine, and he carefully bypassed the compressors and gain riding circuits for that weekly broadcast.

It was really interesting to compare various antennae & high-end tuners reproducing the broadcast of a source that I had in my listening room.

Back then, the best antenna overall was probably the FM-4.

Don't think it's available now.

You might want to visit this page:

http://www.pnwvhfs.org/articles/beyondfm/beyond_fm4.html

While they focus on outdoor antennae, they are super knowledgeable about FM and one of their other articles may help.

I had the apartment issue once, and was fortunate enough to get my FM-4 antenna mounted on the roof and the cable down several floors into to my apt. Couldn't rotate it, though....

Good Luck!

Jim

One of my brothers had a Parsec LS4 on his Carver TX-11a tuner. One of my other brothers had a BSR 16/2 which was basically a rebadged Parsec for his old Pioneer VSX-4400 receiver. And my other brother had a a Magnum Dynalab SR100 for his Sansui TU-D99x tuner. Throughout the entire time, my father on the other hand only used a very basic "T" dipole thumb tacked to the back of this stereo cabinet. None of them seemed to outperform the other.

Oh, I almost forgot to mention, as all of this took place back in the mid to late 80's, I too was in on the game. At the time, I had my oldest brother's hand-me-down Technics SA-5170 receiver. Since I didn't have an antenna when I was handed that receiver, I found an old 15' white extension cord, cut both ends off, split it about half way down the middle and tacked it up on the wall, stripped the other end and connected them to the receiver. I obviously didn't have a clue what I was doing but figured that if it was bigger, it was going to be better. I was only 10 or 12 at the time... What did I know?! LOL

Hey Charles, I am trying to find a good in door antenna choice myself. I tried a basic Terk, not good enough... a Magnum Dynalab SR100... pulled station ok, but was weird.. sharp wire strip edges, center rod had to be adjusted, but most importantly, really cheaply built... then I tried the Terk FM50, their top FM antenna. Works fine, but bulky, BIG, and will be hard to hide. Works fine behind window shad, but no place to put in new house. A Godar is suppose to arrive todäy, , maybe tomorrow... Dan and others rated it well in the past, but we will see. They advertise it as a top notch in doors antenna. We will see...

 

[Randy Myers]

So the Godar FM-1A arrived. Within a few minutes it was obvious that it is not going to work . Way too directional, to a point where it is hard to get stations I have been receiving. AD taking it back no questions asked of course ... but dang i wanted it to work. No one seems to have the ST-2 in stock, or the Fanfare for that matter.... may have to try the Godar version of this type of antenna...

 

[Randy Myers]

With help of friends and research determined that Metz Communications builds the ST-2. I was able to order their model 288 which appears to be the same unit as the ST-2 with the Metz name on it

 

[surrounded by sound]

I use the T antennas from CCrane Co. They cost $39.99. I use them on my Rotel tuner from the 90s and a McIntosh MAC6700 receiver. I get great reception. I live in metro Detroit so I get stations from Detroit, Toledo, Windsor, and out laying stations in Canada with no problem.

 

[chops]

I'm going back on a couple things here...

First off, a correction. My oldest brother that had the Carver tuner, I said it was the TX-11a. Actually, it was just the TX-11, bought new in 1983 at the PX when he was stationed in Germany. However, I now have a mint TX-11a showing up this Friday! :exciting:


Secondly, even though I said the Magnum Dynalab ST-2 gets mixed reviews, I still ordered one anyway, which will also be here this Friday!


Lastly, I ordered just a few minutes ago not one, but two C.Crane FM Reflect antennas. They seem to get pretty good reviews plus C.Crane is running a special on them for 43% off, making them $19.99 each! So why not?! LOL

 

[Randy Myers]

I have seen fairly much universal praise for the ST-2.

 

[chops]

The C.Crane FM Reflect antennas came in, and I got them temporarily installed. They look tacky with the tape holding them up! LOL

With that said, I put the first one up on the front wall, just above the standard folded dipole so I could get some direct comparisons of the two.

Even with the C.Crane antenna being nearly a full 12" shorter, the results are pretty good. More so than I was expecting!

Here's a few samples...

And here's where I have the other antenna placed. It definitely helps in a big was on two or three stations where the one up front seems to not do too well.

And the Yamaha in its final resting place.

 

[Randy Myers]

Nice.... glad it seems to be helping.... I assume your wife will string you up if you have tape and antenna hanging all over the wall like that. My wife would definitely want it changed ....

hopefully my ST-2 will be arriving tomorrow! Then hopefully this antenna thing can be put to bed.

 

[chops]

She has all of her weird pictures and art that she hangs up everywhere else, and she knows how I am with stereo equipment and music, so she usually leaves me be. Granted, I don't even like the way this looks, so it will be tweaked. The important thing is, they work! And being that dipoles are somewhat directional, they may end up performing better than the ST-2. I guess I'll find that out Friday evening.

Nice.... glad it seems to be helping.... I assume your wife will string you up if you have tape and antenna hanging all over the wall like that. My wife would definitely want it changed ....

hopefully my ST-2 will be arriving tomorrow! Then hopefully this antenna thing can be put to bed.

 

[Randy Myers]

Cool beans.... let me know. I know the Godar that I have and am returning when the label arrives is directional. I do not like it because I had to constantly fiddle with it. I am hoping that the ST-2 pull in all I want at a high signal without having to mess with it. That is what everybody seems to say about it, so i guess we will see ....

 

[chops]

I was doing a little "DXing" about an hour ago, and picked up a country station (92.7 WAVW) which is 140 miles away in Stuart, FL! :shocking:

Granted, it was in mono with a little bit of static, but it would occasionally flicker the first segment on the meter. That was on antenna "A" which is the one that faces north/south over the sliding glass doors.

 

[Randy Myers]

You are trying to get me to pick up a TM-1 and have two tuners with different antennas, aren't you .... That is very cool Charles... sounds like you are having fun with it... nice seeing you back into your audio... was starting to think those exhaust fumes were getting to you ...

 

[jdandy]

Charles.......The differences in signal strength between the standard throw-away dipole antenna and the C. Crane FM Reflect antenna is substantial and impressive, especially on the 104.7 station. Every comparison clearly shows a superior antenna in use. I am going to order the C. Crane FM Reflect antenna for my Tandberg 3011A tuner in the vintage system. Now you have me buying stuff. . :coolbroguy:

 

[Randy Myers]

Nice job Charles....

 

[chops]

Randy, I didn't even know what a TM-1 was until just a minute ago. Thank you, Google! Haha

That's pretty cool that you can add another tuner module like that. All I've gotta say is, it couldn't hurt. As for being back into my system, I guess I was content with it for a bit as I had just bought the Z, which I was spending money and time on... And things still aren't installed on the darn thing.

You are trying to get me to pick up a TM-1 and have two tuners with different antennas, aren't you .... That is very cool Charles... sounds like you are having fun with it... nice seeing you back into your audio... was starting to think those exhaust fumes were getting to you ...

Dan, the FM Reflect definitely is substantial and impressive. It doesn't make that big off an improvement on already strong stations, but stations that are moderately strong, the FM Reflect pulls them in for the win.

I don't know what station 104.7 is up where you are, but here it's in Tampa (WRBQ - Q105), and I'm supposed to be well within the local range of it. I guess what I'm getting is a lot of multipath interference, with the meter swinging back and forth quite a bit. And when a song gets louder and louder, the signal gets weaker to the point of dropping to mono.

Charles.......The differences in signal strength between the standard throw-away dipole antenna and the C. Crane FM Reflect antenna is substantial and impressive, especially on the 104.7 station. Every comparison clearly shows a superior antenna in use. I am going to order the C. Crane FM Reflect antenna for my Tandberg 3011A tuner in the vintage system. Now you have me buying stuff. . :coolbroguy:

 

[chops]

The only thing I don't particularly care for with these C.Crane antennas is that they are 54" long whereas the cheap dipole that I pulled down was about 64" long, if not a little more. So right now, 88.5 and 89.7 aren't as strong as they are with the cheap dipole. I mean, at least it's still in stereo and there's still no hiss, but the signal is going no higher than about 20 on the meter.

And yes, I know the meter on the TX-1000 is a "signal quality" meter, but it still shows strength.