Impedance Mismatch(?) Help

[mep]

Mark

It's not an impedance mismatch, probably something a whole lot simpler.

Jack-If you read up, you would see that I know it can't be an impedance mismatch with a SS pre and tube power amp. SS preamps typically have a very low output impedance and tube amps typically have a very high input impedance which is a match made in heaven.

 

[puroagave]

Wow...this thread has really turned into a cluster. First of all...it sounds like half the participants, can't even really follow it (or follow links for that matter: post 18...that means 1 page back my man ). Second...I think I made it pretty clear, I'm no EE; and so maybe my terms were incorrect...by implying "Impedance". But I'm surprised that some of you, didn't get the gist.

I mean, will anyone sit and tell me to my face; some pre-amp/amp combinations, require you to go higher on the volume dial...to get the same output? See...this is why I didn't want to name brands; because it might sound like I'm denigrating either of the pieces involved. I'm not.

The CP-700 is a dynamite piece! It worked lovely with the CA-2200 (and I didn't seem to have any trouble "setting it up correctly" then; nor after I put it back in the second time ). But...when I first set it up, with the VT-50 (which is also a lovely piece); I had this "issue". Then...even when I solved the "issue", with that combo; I had to go to like 3 o'clock on the Classe, to get what I consider pretty good, moderately-loud volume.

By contrast, I get to about the same place with the C-J ET3-SE; at about 12 o'clock. Well you say, sure...Blackdog is right; duh...the Classe has only 6db of gain, and the C-J has 25. OK...then why do I only need to go, to about 10 o'clock; to get the same volume with the STP-SE...which Face claims has 6db of gain as well?

Look...I don't really care. Obviously I touched a real nerve...ONCE I NAMED BRANDS; because all the owners and dealers, became indignant that I was somehow knocking their product. I wasn't. Call it gain "mismatch", mistakenly call it Impedance mismatch (though that's what I've always heard, was to blame...when you have too little or too much, volume range); all I know, is I have to really crank the CP-700 with the VT-50...whereas I don't have to really crank the C-J or Wyred, with the VT-50. And I don't have to really crank the CP-700, with the CA-2200. I call that a "mismatch", that's all.

Jeez...you'd think I was the first guy, to ever say "this piece didn't play particularly well, with that piece". Hell...AFAIC; we've built a whole hobby around it.

I have to say; this one surprised and disappointed me Sharks. :S

I don't understand your tone, you come on looking for help and then hold everyone in contempt for trying to help you. they have meds for your condition i worked with someone that was bipolar - look into it.

Did you read the manual? Pg 24 shows you how to program the volume control to meet your specific requirements and/or differences in gain matching. your 'problem' has nothing to do with impedance miss match.

 

[mep]

I don't understand your tone, you come on looking for help and then hold everyone in contempt for trying to help you. they have meds for your condition i worked with someone that was bipolar - look into it.

Did you read the manual? Pg 24 shows you how to program the volume control to meet your specific requirements and/or differences in gain matching. your problem has nothing to do with impedance miss match.

Rob-Thanks for giving me my first laugh of the day for wire brushing CDLehner. This has to be one of the weirdest calls for help I have ever seen in a thread. And he is disappointed with the people who were trying to help him??

 

[CDLehner]

I don't understand your tone, you come on looking for help and then hold everyone in contempt for trying to help you. they have meds for your condition i worked with someone that was bipolar - look into it.

Did you read the manual? Pg 24 shows you how to program the volume control to meet your specific requirements and/or differences in gain matching. your 'problem' has nothing to do with impedance miss match.

Rob-Thanks for giving me my first laugh of the day for wire brushing CDLehner. This has to be one of the weirdest calls for help I have ever seen in a thread. And he is disappointed with the people who were trying to help him??

Yeah, I am...and continue to be. I think a lot of you, have comprehension issues.

That link doesn't work for me.

Work just fine here.

I did here http://www.audioshark.org/showthread.php?t=8527&page=2&p=147327&viewfull=1#post147327 (post 18)

MEP...you see those crazy little numbers, in the upper right-hand corners of the posts? We call those "post numbers". So when I say "I listed that in post 18"; even if the link doesn't work for you(???)...just page back, and Viola

I have no idea what you've written here, not following your troubleshooting steps. Did you solve the problem or not?

The next day, I just "redid" everything...right down the line; from Aurender, to DAC, to CP-700, to VT-50...and things were "normal" again.

7 posts earlier

As for the so-called "help" I received; seriously. If you want...I can go back, and quote every single post to you. Most...if not ALL of them, were along the lines of: you probably hooked something up wrong...you probably did something wrong...try a few less beers next time. Sorry, that I should hold such reverent advice in contempt.

Did you read the manual? Pg 24 shows you how to program the volume control to meet your specific requirements and/or differences in gain matching. your 'problem' has nothing to do with impedance miss match.

The only one, who really even came close to real help here; was purogave, with the above suggestion. Yes...I know the CP-700 has lots of options, for how quickly the volume will increase, volume limiting; I think I did forget about gain offset, etc. Believe it or not, I don't just push a play button...and pick songs. But even PGs advice, was a day-late, and a dollar-short (and...he implied I'm bi-polar, or I'm the one with the problem, in the process. And for the record...you've just got to send me a picture, of this Miss Match).

I would say I mean no offense, but I do mean offense; but I guess instead I would say, I bear no grudge...and would end with this. Even in the f-ing title of the thread: I put Impedance Mismatch(?) Help; like...I'm not sure if that's what it is, or if that's what it's called. But again...I guess that was just too subtle, for most of the comprehension level on display here.

 

[CDLehner]

I just think this was a CP-700 panel assignment error. I found this interesting article about the volume in the CP-700, one highlight that might of occurred in the setup.

[FONT=&]"" Among the multitude of options are the ability to set the name, volume offset and [/FONT]

[FONT=&]balance setting for each input. If you name an input ‘SSP’, it becomes a unity gain input; in [/FONT]
[FONT=&]other words, it bypasses the volume control. [/FONT]
[FONT=&]This is useful when integrating a home cinema system into the hi-fi, but dangerous in the [/FONT]
[FONT=&]wrong hands.[/FONT]

[FONT=&]You can also adjust the rate that the rotary control changes volume, but the standard speed-sensing setting is logical enough – the faster the knob is turned the greater the volume steps. This did catch us out a few times, though; for instance, when the preamp has ‘gone to sleep’ and turned off its display, one way of awakening it is to turn the knob. This can sometimes send it to 0.0 and be a little reluctant to go back up to the 40-50 range .""[/FONT]


http://www.classeaudio.com/reviews/reviews-pdfs/CP700_CAM400-HiFiChoice_May07.pdf

Sorry...CPP, this was also; probably, along the right path. Likely had something to do with volume offset, and the fact that I had gone from balanced to SE the first time 'round. Thanks

 

[mep]

Geez-You can't figure out how to operate your own gear and we have comprehension problems? Your link didn't work on my computer so that's not my fault. It certainly didn't mean I didn't see your reference to post #18. We all tried to help you and Rob did give you the best advice. Good luck next time getting help from anyone.

 

[jaxwired]

Here's my biased take on this whole thread. Sprinkled throughout the thread is subtle condescension and what I would call "attitude" from some of the replies. It's subtle and it's an undertone but it's there. So then CD gets fed up and calls it out and everyone is like "CD is crazy and has issues". Pretty classic.

 

[CDLehner]

Hey...I'm sorry. The last thing I try to do, is come off "haughty"...or unappreciative. But I do have a short fuse, for being implied I'm some kind of idiot; or that I don't know to hook up gear, when I've owned probably 100 different pieces of it.

Yes, it got my dander up; I went on full blast, and AFAIC...it's done with.

You won't have to offer up help in the future if you don't want; but if you knew me, you'd realize I'm not an idiot, nor an a$$hole :blush:

 

[mep]

Here's my biased take on this whole thread. Sprinkled throughout the thread is subtle condescension and what I would call "attitude" from some of the replies. It's subtle and it's an undertone but it's there. So then CD gets fed up and calls it out and everyone is like "CD is crazy and has issues". Pretty classic.

I couldn't disagree more with every single thing you said. In hindsight, it would have been better if no one had tried to help CD unless/until he told us what the two pieces of gear were that he couldn't get to work correctly. It's like a teacher giving you a math word problem, but they don't tell you enough of the story for you to ever come up with the solution because there are too many variables missing. This thread was doomed from the start because of CD playing secret squirrel with the names and model numbers of the gear he was trying to use for all the wrong reasons. If you have two different pieces of gear from two different manufacturers and they really were electrically incompatible with each other, it's neither one's fault. It doesn't make one "bad" and the other one "good" so there was no valid reason not to tell us what gear he was trying to hook up.

Too much nonsense and defensiveness going on with the OP and yet people were still trying to help him. This is a classic case of "No good deed goes unpunished."

 

[jaxwired]

I couldn't disagree more with every single thing you said. In hindsight, it would have been better if no one had tried to help CD unless/until he told us what the two pieces of gear were that he couldn't get to work correctly. It's like a teacher giving you a math word problem, but they don't tell you enough of the story for you to ever come up with the solution because there are too many variables missing. This thread was doomed from the start because of CD playing secret squirrel with the names and model numbers of the gear he was trying to use for all the wrong reasons. If you have two different pieces of gear from two different manufacturers and they really were electrically incompatible with each other, it's neither one's fault. It doesn't make one "bad" and the other one "good" so there was no valid reason not to tell us what gear he was trying to hook up.

Too much nonsense and defensiveness going on with the OP and yet people were still trying to help him. This is a classic case of "No good deed goes unpunished."

Well as someone that deals a LOT in email I can tell you it's extremely easy to misunderstand intent.

 

[bayou985]

WTF...After reading this thread I don't think I'll ever post again ??

 

[CDLehner]

Well, you know what they say: if you've got to go...you might as well go out, guns blazing. :shooting:

Not to say, that this is a "screw you guys; I'm taking my ball and going home" declaration; but more that I could either remain silent, and maintain the smallest shred of dignity...or say more, and give you guys additional fuel for fire. Yeah...I'm going to do the later.

It's been suggested to me...that perhaps the reason I catch some, as Jax correctly put it "subtle condescension and attitude"; is I change gear, sometimes as often as others might change underwear. If that's the case...it's nothing new; I've gotten eye-rolls, and been considered with disdain and sneers elsewhere too.

I have to say...I just don't get it. I mean...if you knew a guy; who drove a BMW one month, then you noticed a Benz...in his parking pace at work. A few months after that, maybe a Jag; and then later...and Audi, etc. Would you think that guy, was some kind of idiot? I wouldn't; I'd think "man...that guy is an enthusiast, and he likes driving the best, and switching it up".

Now...you would have to think he was an idiot; or just stupidly rich...if your impression was, he was losing thousands, and thousands of dollars...for this "luxury", of swapping and driving some of the world's finest automobiles. Some people are complimentary; they say "wow, I wish I could try as much gear as you do" (to which I always wonder...why don't you?); or "wow...you must be rich; the way you constantly swap gear" (which I can assure you, I'm not). So if that's what this is about; I'm "that guy"...who doesn't know anything, because I change gear a lot. I don't see the connection :huh:

And if it's about the tossing of good money out the window; trust me...I've never lost one, red cent...in all the deals I've made. Buy smart, sell smart. I think the guys, that buy speakers...and keep them for 10/15/20 years; are...let me choose my words carefully. Stodgy!

Aren't you curious about what else is out there? Aren't you curious about what's new? Is there only one good brand, that suits you? I hear some people, who say "I go to audio shows"; you know...as a way of countering, they know about new and other gear. Please; I DON'T go to audio shows (though I will...just so I can confirm what I suspect). I have no doubt they are "fun"; to meet other 'philes, talk shop...see all the shiny and new stuff. But I don't have to have been to one, to know...there is NO way, you are going to properly assess gear; in a room, that is 5 times bigger than yours...sitting shoulder-to-shoulder, with 50 other dudes...listening to some a$$-kicking Lute music, when you like to crank the re-mastered Zep or Van the Man.

So, whatever; think what you want of me. I'd have to check; but I'd be willing to bet, dollars to doughnuts...I've asked for help and/or advice here before (usually having to do with tubes, and my seeming trouble and/or bad luck with them...lol ). Gotten good and helpful advice, and thanked the forum...by saying "Sharks are the best"! I always offer a discount, on any gear I'm moving...through the rotating-door, of my Listening Room. So this whole

I don't understand your tone, you come on looking for help and then hold everyone in contempt for trying to help you.

I find pretty knee-jerk.

they have meds for your condition i worked with someone that was bipolar - look into it.

And for the record PG...and I can't believe I'm admitting to this; but screw it...guns blazing, right. Your lack of punctuation aside...I happen to be bi-polar, and take meds for it. And I do just fine, and it had/has NOTHING...to do with this post, whatsoever. I do perfectly well...and even manage to hold down a steady, decent-paying job; at a little company called Oracle America, Inc.

So...next time you happen to disagree with someone; over something as silly as audio gear. Why don't you be flippant, about them having some kind of brain tumor...or maybe inoperable cancer?

 

[cmalak]

I haven't gone through this thread but clearly some hurt feelings, etc...perhaps a time-out with everyone firing up their stereo systems and taking in some soul-soothing muuuziiik might be in order. Tomorrow is another day and all is good.

 

[CDLehner]

I haven't gone through this thread but clearly some hurt feelings, etc...perhaps a time-out with everyone firing up their stereo systems and taking in some soul-soothing muuuziiik might be in order. Tomorrow is another day and all is good.

Well I would; but I'm not sure, I can hook it up correctly :notreally:

 

[cmalak]

 

[puroagave]

And for the record PG...and I can't believe I'm admitting to this; but screw it...guns blazing, right. Your lack of punctuation aside...I happen to be bi-polar, and take meds for it. And I do just fine, and it had/has NOTHING...to do with this post, whatsoever. I do perfectly well...and even manage to hold down a steady, decent-paying job; at a little company called Oracle America, Inc.

So...next time you happen to disagree with someone; over something as silly as audio gear. Why don't you be flippant, about them having some kind of brain tumor...or maybe inoperable cancer?

Calm down, this is just a hobby not a matter of life and death. sorry about the bipolar comment, I worked with a person who wasn't on meds and the mania was hard to watch.

I never once thought you were an "idiot" or an "asshole" but I cant help but notice how many presuppositions you made in your initial posts and subsequent posts. Not wanting to to tell what components were used was your first mistake. I could care less how fat your wallet is, the make and model of car you drive or the pedigree of your audio system. you asked for objectivity but its hard to comply with so much pussy footing going on.

 

[mep]

 

[MikeCh]

Wow, what a train wreck.

 

[CDLehner]

Sorry about the bipolar comment, I worked with a person who wasn't on meds and the mania was hard to watch.

I apologize as well. Hell...I wasn't really offended; half the country, or better...is probably "unbalanced", and just not diagnosed.

I just played the BP card, to make you feel bad. Sorry. Squashed, OK?

You asked for objectivity but its hard to comply with so much pussy footing going on.

Fair enough. I had my reasons...and they weren't about being cute or coy. But maybe someone should have said "it's hard to offer advice, without knowing what we're dealing with". Maybe it seems like common sense; but honestly...aren't the numbers, the numbers. Whether you're talking ARC, BAT, or C-J??

And with posts like this; I'm the one accused, of being the trouble-maker?

I figured out, where the red and white thingees go; so I'm out.

 

[CDLehner]

Did you read the manual? Pg 24 shows you how to program the volume control to meet your specific requirements and/or differences in gain matching. your 'problem' has nothing to do with impedance miss match.

We all tried to help you and Rob did give you the best advice. Good luck next time getting help from anyone.

Just for the official record; the section on volume...page 24 and beyond. Has NOTHING to do, with gain mismatches or offsets. It has nothing to do with gain at all. Simply, how sensitive you want the volume, to increase or decrease...where do you want it to reset to, when you turn the unit on; that kind of thing.

http://www.classeaudio.com/pdfs/Owners_manuals/Discontinued/CP-700_ENG_1-8.pdf