I'm leaving high end audio...

Kramer64 said:
I agree with the substance of what you say, but that was not the point I was making. My approach to system building, as anyone would see from my system, is substantially different from the objectivists. I'm arguing for basic civility in our discussions. The fact that we have differences of opinion about a hobby does not make either side stupid or idiots or nitwits. It just means we have different opinions. Once we start calling each other names, the meaningful discussion is over which, to my understanding, is the whole point of a forum. I think that sort of thing also inhibits folks who are newer to the hobby from participating. Just my thought and I'm not and I know there are times that I need to take my own advice. There is a basic rule of advocacy-if you are debating an issue, attack the substance, not the person. Of course, its the internet and everyone is free to say whatever they please.
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While I generally agree with you, there are some people that are just nitwits and deserve to be called nitwits.

An example, I had someone post on my photo I identified as my work bench "that may have originally been your workbench but don't lie to people, that has definitely gone through a layer of stolen fake Al slop treatments. We aren't stupid."

I called him a nitwit and posted the original photo before I boosted the colors to adjust for shadows and colors to prove I don't lie and the photo's I claim I took are real.

While it sounds good in make-believe world to never call someone an idiot. Sometimes that is the right response.

Original and the one I adjusted colors on below as reference:

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Greek Audio Geek Restoration Workshop.png
 
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Michaels HiFi said:
While I generally agree with you, there are some people that are just nitwits and deserve to be called nitwits.

An example, I had someone post on my photo I identified as my work bench "that may have originally been your workbench but don't lie to people, that has definitely gone through a layer of stolen fake Al slop treatments. We aren't stupid."

I called him a nitwit and posted the original photo before I boosted the colors to adjust for shadows and colors to prove I don't like and the photo's I claim I took are real.

While it sounds good in make-believe world to never call someone an idiot. Sometimes that is the right response.

Original and the one I adjusted colors on below as reference:

View attachment 36404

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Some people are just flipping stupid sometimes. Why would anyone fake their work bench? That is just idiotic on it's basic level to accuse someone of.
 
Randy Myers said:
Some people are just flipping stupid sometimes. Why would anyone fake their work bench? That is just idiotic on it's basic level to accuse someone of.
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And to make it even more stupid, he was one of those people who when you check their profile have as there 'about' some crap about how we all need to be nice to people. LOL
 
2FarGone said:
While I agree that such a position betrays ignorance on the part of those who deny the efficacy of components such as ICs, PCs, dacs (and even amps? Are you kidding?) to those who actually have considerable real-world experience and who recognize just how myopic that entire ideology really is, I have to wonder why you’d bother to contest the point with that crowd. It strikes me as akin to preaching non-violence at the Coliseum when Caesar and the spectators just want to see someone get eaten.
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Because I can't stand to see false information given to people asking for help choosing gear as they have no experience. There was one guy who upgraded to a $2000 TT and was asking about phono preamps and another guy said a Schiit Skoll F is all you need and that above the $400 price point there is no difference in phono preamps. He said that has been proven, LOL. I called him out and he became snarky, belittling, and was posting all this data to support him. He was an ASR guy of course. He said the differences I heard with my Gold Note PH-10, Darlington Labs MP8B and my Vista phono 2 were all in my head and expectation bias and my ears were wrong. Where the FK do these guys come from.
 
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Kramer64 said:
I have a different approach to audio than the ASR folks. I definitely hear a difference between dacs and amps, etc. But it’s just a difference of opinion. they have as much right to their point of view as we do. No reason to make it personal. It’s just listening to music.
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ASR consistently derides and insults those who claim they can hear differences regardless of measurements. If they refuse to use their hearing to assist them in discovering potential sonic differences and demean and call those people that do dillusionary, what is the basis for their point of view?

Oh I get it. Their eyes, using measurement devices, are better than their ears in determing sound quality. Everyone knows you hear by using your eyes.

Definition of "stupid". Lacking intelligence, common sense, or clear thinking judgement.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
ASR consistently derides and insults those who claim they can hear differences regardless of measurements. If they refuse to use their hearing to assist them in discovering potential sonic differences and demean and call those people that do dillusionary, what is the basis for their point of view?

Oh I get it. Their eyes, using measurement devices, are better than their ears in determing sound quality. Everyone knows you hear by using your eyes.

Definition of "stupid". Lacking intelligence, common sense, or clear thinking judgement.
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I understand and have been on the receiving end of some of the ASR stuff. I'd just say that I made a living arguing cases for 40 plus yeas and learned early on that ad hominem attacks, even if responding in kind, never makes you right, never makes you sound smarter and always degrades the discussion. It can make you feel better in the moment-I'm as susceptible to that as the next guy. And I understand that hoping for civility on internet forums is a lot like trying to walk between rain drops, but maybe Rodney King had a point. Just a shallow thought.
 
Kramer64 said:
I understand and have been on the receiving end of some of the ASR stuff. I'd just say that I made a living arguing cases for 40 plus yeas and learned early on that ad hominem attacks, even if responding in kind, never makes you right, never makes you sound smarter and always degrades the discussion.
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I called them stupid. Words ASR has consistently used this word (or equivalent) when dicussing those who use their ears versus measuremenrts to judge sound quality on the subjective / objective discussion. And ASR is not going to change their position.

I trust / hope you are not condoning understanding and neutrality regarding the Rodney King incident. If you are, I have nothing to say. I am way too angry. Remember the riot in Los Angeles in 1992 caused by the trial verdict.

And you are not trying to walk between rain drops. Try a hailstorm.
 
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ggdudeabides said:
I called them stupid. Words ASR has used this word when dicussing those who use their ears versus measuremenrts to judge sound quality on the subjective / objective discussion. And ASR is not going to change their position

I trust / hope you are not condoning understanding and neutrality regarding the Rodney King incident. If you are, I have nothing to say. I am way too angry.

And you are not trying to walk between rain drops. Try a hailstorm.
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Im just suggesting that the forum experience might be better with a little more civility. Particularly for newcomers. Nothing more than that.

Not trying to trigger your anger. You are free to disagree, and it seems that you do. As I said, I realize that hoping for civility on the internet is a lost cause.
 
Kramer64 said:
Im just suggesting that the forum experience might be better with a little more civility. Particularly for newcomers. Nothing more than that.

Not trying to trigger your anger. You are free to disagree, and it seems that you do. As I said, I realize that hoping for civility on the internet is a lost cause.
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The dude doesn't abide.
 
Hi Kramer64. Thanks for your civility efforts. Sounds like you want unlimited dialogue with everyone understanding the other sides perspective regardless of how wrong the other person's opinions are. At some point, one has to say no, you are wrong. The polite phrase is something like "I respectfully disagree with your opinion". World discourse is not a venue for perpetual arbitration. Great thought but you are asking for total civility and respect. Given human nature, It may be the ideal but is impossible to attain be it a forum or anywhere else where competing points of view exist.
 
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