I'm leaving high end audio...

[Michaels HiFi]

I also understand, sort of, that there is an undercurrent between certain dealers on some of the forums. If some participants accept undisclosed goodies as a quid pro quo for favorable posts, that's reprehensible in my book and I hope its exposed and names are called.

We've been naming some of the names lately.

It sad/comical/head scratching that those lately screaming and lecturing others about transparency are among those charging (and making demonstrably false accusations/implications about others) while refusing to disclose how much they have made.

It's like they are busy trying to distract people from their own behavior while pushing false narratives about others.

To compound it, they take very public stances on gear and hifi issues without any disclosure in those posts / videos referencing they are accepting money from those they are talking about.

I'n NOT saying accepting money/gear/whatever automatically means they won't be honest or are bought opinions. I am saying simply be transparent and then people can decide for themselves.

 

[Randy Myers]

I don't really understand all the angst over ultra high priced gear. If someone wants to make it and someone wants to buy it, doesn't impact me and its not my business. I've heard some of the half million dollar speakers and $300k dacs, etc., and I think they sound great. But the delta in sound quality between my system and the ultra gear is very small relative to the delta in price, so I'm happy. It also seems that there are more choices in high quality, lower cost gear than ever before. Its not like the ultra gear is replacing lower cost offerings. I was at the Toronto show recently. Saw a handful of near million dollar rooms, but many more filled with relatively affordable gear that , to my ears, was quite impressive. And the Canadian dealers were great to visit with-living up to the Canadian reputation for friendliness. I'm betting the same will be true of CAF.

I've not experienced dealers or reviewers insisting that I have to pay what a house costs to get a good system, but if I did, I can choose as I see fit. Even the big magazines devote considerable effort to covering lower cost gear. They deserve a lot of criticism for how conflicts of interest are treated-as do lots of YouTubers-but its a bum rap to suggest they only cover ultra priced gear.

I also understand, sort of, that there is an undercurrent between certain dealers on some of the forums. If some participants accept undisclosed goodies as a quid pro quo for favorable posts, that's reprehensible in my book and I hope its exposed and names are called. A bigger problem for me is the incivility often found on forums. Keyboard courage can be tempting to us all but casually referring to someone as an "idiot" or a "nitwit" says much more about the accuser than the target. None of us are perfect-I'm certainly not-but this should be easily solved by the application of basic manners. That stuff destroys reasonable discussion and I wish forum moderators had zero tolerance for it, but the folks who own the forums have every right to run them as they see fit-participation is not mandatory. Even the ASR types, who can be very difficult, are just people who have a different opinion about audio. Doesn't make them evil.

Of what has been discussed, I do lament the disappearance of brick and mortar stores. Makes it tough for those of us who live in audio deserts and makes the shows really important for many of us. Looking forward to CAF and the chance to listen to great gear and visit people who have climbed down the same rabbit whole as me.

Just my thoughts.

I subscribe to two of the biggest and longest standing audio magazines. To me there are very few reviews on lower models. Almost all reviews are on top models and/or extremely expensive models. There are a few reviews thrown in, mostly feels like throwing a bone so to speak, of lower-level gear.

Someone new to the hobby would come away thinking that a good system costs as much as a decent entry level house. We all know that this is not true. There is lower price, great sounding gear, but this is definitely not apparent looking through audio magazines and attending most audio shows.

I do wish that other shows would model themselves after the Canadian shows that you describe.

 

[Kramer64]

I completely agree that if someone makes an effort to influence opinion on a particular piece of gear or a particular brand, they are honor bound to disclose any sort of financial entanglement, whether it’s cash, paid expenses, long-term loans, discounts not available to the general public, whatever. If it’s disclosed, we can decide for ourselves. Maybe their opinion will be so compelling that the conflict of interest won’t matter, or maybe not..

For me, the “As the world turns” nature of how some of these elaborate systems evolve in a very public way on the forums is incredibly boring. So, I ignore that stuff. I understand, however, that some find that to be entertaining or maybe even educational, good for them, we are all different.

 

[Kramer64]

I subscribe to two of the biggest and longest standing audio magazines. To me there are very few reviews on lower models. Almost all reviews are on top models and/or extremely expensive models. There are a few reviews thrown in, mostly feels like throwing a bone so to speak, of lower-level gear.

Someone new to the hobby would come away thinking that a good system costs as much as a decent entry level house. We all know that this is not true. There is lower price, great sounding gear, but this is definitely not apparent looking through audio magazines and attending most audio shows.

I do wish that other shows would model themselves after the Canadian shows that you describe.

I subscribe to the same magazines, and I just read it a little differently. Maybe it’s a matter of how we defined the price ranges, but I see lots of coverage of gear way below the ultra-expensive stuff.
There really are a lot of choices out there. If you just look at the Suncoast website, you could very quickly spend a couple of million dollars building a fabulous system without ever leaving that site. On the other hand, I think you could build a fine system that most people would consider very pleasing for under $20,000, probably under $10,000.

 

[Kramer64]

I subscribe to two of the biggest and longest standing audio magazines. To me there are very few reviews on lower models. Almost all reviews are on top models and/or extremely expensive models. There are a few reviews thrown in, mostly feels like throwing a bone so to speak, of lower-level gear.

Someone new to the hobby would come away thinking that a good system costs as much as a decent entry level house. We all know that this is not true. There is lower price, great sounding gear, but this is definitely not apparent looking through audio magazines and attending most audio shows.

I do wish that other shows would model themselves after the Canadian shows that you describe.

I just happened to be in the Toronto area for other matters and spent a day at the show. It’s a smaller, more relaxed show. What I really enjoyed was the opportunity to actually have a fairly in-depth discussion with several of the dealers who seemed to be more than happy to engage. I suppose maybe that’s harder at the bigger, busier shows

 

[W9TR]

If I were a reviewer, I would want to experience the best of the best, not some mid-fi vinyl-covered fiberboard speaker with off-the-shelf drivers. Been there done that. So I totally get the focus on more expensive statement components. All the paper rags and online stuff is all entertainment anyway.

I remember RMAF had rooms set up at different price points. I thought that was a great way to show the ‘what for what’ tradeoffs. My B&M retailer does the same thing. Multiple rooms built around certain price points and gear capabilities.

I hopped off the upgrade merry-go-round a few years ago. Just not really interested in new stuff. Well those MBL 101E MKII’s are still calling…….

 

[Randy Myers]

I subscribe to the same magazines, and I just read it a little differently. Maybe it’s a matter of how we defined the price ranges, but I see lots of coverage of gear way below the ultra-expensive stuff.
There really are a lot of choices out there. If you just look at the Suncoast website, you could very quickly spend a couple of million dollars building a fabulous system without ever leaving that site. On the other hand, I think you could build a fine system that most people would consider very pleasing for under $20,000, probably under $10,000.

It probably is how we define expensive. I have always been someone who is very good at puting myself in the other persons shoes, so to speak. Maybe this is why I was always very good at designing software that was considered very user friendly.

This is why I believe when looking through a magazine and two thirds or more of the items being talked about (and about 90% of the gear the reviewers list as their systems) cost more than a luxury automobile. Working people, as a whole, can not afford to buy systems which will equate to two or three luxury automobiles.

Yes, I have worked hard throughout my life and have been able to afford some decent gear, however knowing a lot of people over the years that also work hard and make a decent living simply could not afford anything being reviewed in magazines, and shown at shows.

I know from being able to put myself in their shoes that many say the heck with it and listen to their cheapo iPhone music through ear buds and never experience a "nice" system in their homes. They believe going into it that there is no way they can afford to because then are never shown that getting into this hobby is not as hard as their only references make it seem.

Back in the day the local audio store was their link to realize that they could enjoy a good system and understand the ability to grow with the system. This is no longer the case and the industry as a whole is missing out. That initial link is missing. The companies and shows may not have changes all that much, but the entry point sure has. And this is where the hobby as a whole is shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Kramer64]

I agree that the now missing link in the chain for potentially new entrants to the hobby are B&M stores that carry affordable, entry level gear. Not many "new" customers are going to start with a $50k system, and if they believe that's the price of admission they will pass. It seems that many of the B&M stores that remain focus on higher priced gear, appointment only auditions, etc., which is likely a sound business decision. So a new person might be left to figure it out from the internet, or, God forbid, Best Buy.

 

[Kingrex]

Best Buy.

 

[Mr Peabody]

It probably is how we define expensive. I have always been someone who is very good at puting myself in the other persons shoes, so to speak. Maybe this is why I was always very good at designing software that was considered very user friendly.

This is why I believe when looking through a magazine and two thirds or more of the items being talked about (and about 90% of the gear the reviewers list as their systems) cost more than a luxury automobile. Working people, as a whole, can not afford to buy systems which will equate to two or three luxury automobiles.

Yes, I have worked hard throughout my life and have been able to afford some decent gear, however knowing a lot of people over the years that also work hard and make a decent living simply could not afford anything being reviewed in magazines, and shown at shows.

I know from being able to put myself in their shoes that many say the heck with it and listen to their cheapo iPhone music through ear buds and never experience a "nice" system in their homes. They believe going into it that there is no way they can afford to because then are never shown that getting into this hobby is not as hard as their only references make it seem.

Back in the day the local audio store was their link to realize that they could enjoy a good system and understand the ability to grow with the system. This is no longer the case and the industry as a whole is missing out. That initial link is missing. The companies and shows may not have changes all that much, but the entry point sure has. And this is where the hobby as a whole is shooting themselves in the foot.

Randy have you been to a show before? I think you give the wrong impression of them. My only reference so far is only Axpona. I may not be able to afford some of the stuff I sure do geek out on it though. Not really my point. My point I also see a fair amount of what I'd call more affordable gear, Cambridge as mentioned is always there, Advanced Paris, NAD, Arcam, Schiit typically has a syste set up and there are brands new to me that are entering the affordable area. It also depends on what we are calling affordable I've seen some brands like Cyrus, Triode who had an integrated SET in the $3k range. Affordable is there they probably just aren't paying someone to come in and write about them as wanting to keep expense down. A local store shows Atoll as their ambassador there. I forgot Rogue who is typically there as well as Odyssey Audio. And I'm sure I've forgot some, especially the direct to consumer.

We all wish there were more B&M stores I doubt if that is going to change in any meaningful way.