I'm leaving high end audio...

Michaels HiFi said:
I agree 1000% with this.

Of all the systems at all the price points in all the world I have heard, the one that sets my heart afire are my Tobian horn speakers with my 3.5 watt Aric Audio 2A3 amp or my Alan Eaton 45 mono blocks at only 1.6 watts..
Click to expand...
Many ways to get emotionally involved with the music. At times, I felt my car stereo topped the list.
 
Kingrex said:
I would like to know more. You're not disappearing from forums are you?

I have been waiting on Van Zyl to launch his horn. I feel he's spending a little too much time trying to make it too perfect. I believe it's a hobby,passion build for him. But he seems to know what he's doing. He understands computer modeling, and he has cnc to cut his wood. And the feedback, and praise from people who have heard his prototypes is very high.

As soon as he has one ready, I will probably get it.

That will oddly make me a little sad at not having my Pure Audio Project speakers to customize. Just last night, I was investigating ways to get something such as silicone pad to sandwich, butyl tape between and use that between the frame and baffles.
Click to expand...

Hi Kingrex — not leaving at all. More like re-focusing.

For me forums (except this one) and Facebook groups have become a huge waste of time when a small number of loud nitwits ruin it for everyone.

W hidden financial relationships, sponsorships, politics, and other behind-the-scenes considerations affect the groups in an uneven and biased way, I think it brings out the worst in this hobby.

So I’m going back to basics and focusing on the things I actually love:

  • Tubes and tube gear
  • Horn speakers
  • HiFi tweaks and experimenting
  • Vintage restorations
  • And sharing music and artists I love
Somewhere along the way I think I lost the plot a bit. This was always supposed to be fun. Instead, I let myself get dragged into too much of the HiFi B.S.

This is why I’m so opposed to ever turning this into a career. For me it's super simple: then it becomes a JOB.

Once money, views, sponsors, deadlines, and expectations enter the picture, it changes everything. And IMO not for the better.

I don’t want that.

If I feel like making a video about something I love, great. If I don’t, nobody cares as there was no financial agreements.

I’m not trying to be an influencer or some HiFi personality. Just some guy sharing my love and passion. And I feel like I lost that.

The best thing out of my channel has been the friends I’ve made. I LOVE talking with people about THEIR systems, THEIR music, and THEIR opinions far more than talking about me.

going forward I'm going to be more selective about what gear I talk about. I want to focus on boutique, interesting stuff that doesn’t already have 50 videos and 200 forum threads about it.

That’s what interests me.

Hopefully that doesn’t sound snobby. I’m just at a point where I want this hobby to be fun again.

If people enjoy coming along for the ride, awesome. If they don’t, that’s okay too.

I’ve stopped caring about everything else as I've realized it's all B.S.

And strangely enough, that has been incredibly freeing.
 
Kingrex said:
@Michaels HiFi
Sorry to have twisted your thread from the personal picture on how the industry has impacted you.

Your a friend of Johan Van Zyle, correct?

Have you heard his horns?
Click to expand...

No worries. I don't feel like you twisted anything. It's all good.

I have - he is a great guy and the sound he has gotten out of "regular" components and lamp cord speaker wire is very impressive.

It's easy to say "oh I would tweak this or that". But when you realize how basic the gear is (I mean that as a compliment, not a negative) it's really impressive.
 
Guys - I have to tell you how refreshing it is that we have all been able to share different points of views on this thread while being respectful.

I don't want this to sound condescending because I don't mean it that way, but well done.

THIS is what hifi should be about!
 
This crazy prizing all started from Magico M9. When Magico M9 came out for 500k, I knew it was going to be bad news for high end. Used to be the most expensive speakers only selling for 200k. But now all speakers manufactuers like Wilson, Gobel, Marten all follow Magico selling their flagship speakers north of 500k. I predict Magico will come out their next flagship speaker selling 1M.
 
Adyc said:
This crazy prizing all started from Magico M9. When Magico M9 came out for 500k, I knew it was going to be bad news for high end. Used to be the most expensive speakers only selling for 200k. But now all speakers manufactuers like Wilson, Gobel, Marten all follow Magico selling their flagship speakers north of 500k. I predict Magico will come out their next flagship speaker selling 1M.
Click to expand...

Interesting point. Thanks for sharing.

I think for me I'm ok if a company offers a halo product that is super high end.

It's when they completely drop / ignore / raise their nose at the "normal market" and the 'normal' customers that I find sad.

Their attitudes and looking down on many of their potential customers is curious at best.
 
Adyc said:
This crazy prizing all started from Magico M9. When Magico M9 came out for 500k, I knew it was going to be bad news for high end. Used to be the most expensive speakers only selling for 200k. But now all speakers manufactuers like Wilson, Gobel, Marten all follow Magico selling their flagship speakers north of 500k. I predict Magico will come out their next flagship speaker selling 1M.
Click to expand...
Wrong.

The M9 debuted at $750,000. The price remains unchanged. And wasn’t it Wilson who started with the WAMM Master Chronosonic at $685,000 in December 2016 and now sells for $970,000?

The M9 debuted in June 2020 at $750,000 and is still $750,000.
 
that proves my point. the prices have gone crazy. It is naive to think that maunfactuers price their flagship gears at astronomical prices have no impact on their second tier or third tier gears or other manufactuer prices. Gears are all priced relative to the flagship and competitors gears.

Mike said:
Wrong.

The M9 debuted at $750,000. The price remains unchanged. And wasn’t it Wilson who started with the WAMM Master Chronosonic at $685,000 in December 2016 and now sells for $970,000?

The M9 debuted in June 2020 at $750,000 and is still $750,000.
Click to expand...
 
Michaels HiFi said:
Interesting point. Thanks for sharing.

I think for me I'm ok if a company offers a halo product that is super high end.

It's when they completely drop / ignore / raise their nose at the "normal market" and the 'normal' customers that I find sad.

Their attitudes and looking down on many of their potential customers is curious at best.
Click to expand...
I don't know there is anything I have seen to back this up. Can you share some insite?
 
For me, it seems obvious that when one hi end company creates a new upper price limit for their flagship, the others follow that this new upper limit is what the market will bear. And consequently, up go their flagship but that's totally anecdotal on my part. Maybe Mike can provide some insight.
 
Last edited:
Kingrex said:
I don't know there is anything I have seen to back this up. Can you share some insite?
Click to expand...
Acura is a great example.

the NSX was a halo car but they still offered cars that performed well closer to real world prices.

Lexus did the same with their LFA.

Certainly companies can focus on what every price point they want. However I like it better when they use the philosophy of having entry level models all the way to super high end. They get you in as a customer and then can cater any price point you'd like to be at.
 
Adyc said:
that proves my point. the prices have gone crazy. It is naive to think that maunfactuers price their flagship gears at astronomical prices have no impact on their second tier or third tier gears or other manufactuer prices. Gears are all priced relative to the flagship and competitors gears.
Click to expand...
The point is, the nearing a million range didn’t start with Magico. It’s important to be factual.
 
ggdudeabides said:
For me, it seems obvious that when one hi end company creates a new upper price limit for their flagship, the others follow that this new upper limit is what the market will bear. And consequently, up go their flagship but that's totally anecdotal on my part. Maybe Mike can provide some insight.
Click to expand...
When we think of the HiFi market globally, we can’t ignore the demands of certain markets (Asia) for manufacturers to keep pushing not only the performance envelope, but the cost envelope. One particular cable company only developed the “gold” line because their regular lines weren’t expensive enough. Young Asian buyers driven to impress drive a lot of the prices we see today.

I have a lot of thoughts on the underlying message of this thread. I often ask why nobody is talking about the golden ear, reference products of only 10-15 years ago.

I hear people bemoaning the prices and I say to myself, “well, what’s wrong with a pair of Stradivari’s from 15 years ago?” Are they shit now? Did one of Franco Serblin’s masterpieces suddenly become the AM radio of speakers? Do you honestly think the ARC REF250’s, which can be had for less than $10k a pair today, just begin sucking because there is a new version costing 6 figures? You do realize, circuit designs don’t change THAT much. I’m sure the new one is great, but if we are chasing value, well…

Is the REF5SE or REF10 suddenly shitty preamps? What about the CJ GAT2? Did the Bryston 28SST2’s suddenly become dog poop? Revel Salon 2, a speaker that was on the class A stereophile list for what? 20 years? Suddenly become unlistenable? A pair of XD Avantgarde’s don’t have the finishing touches of the new version, but since when does the physics of a horn change that much? The coveted Mcintosh 2301’s are garbage now? The best Lumin ever made was the original, and it was just called “The Lumin”, later renamed the A1. I sold one the other day that we took on trade for $1200. Find me another digital product for 10x that price that sounds better. That Wolfson DAC chip was pure gold.

I could go on….but you get the point. NOBODY, and I mean NOBODY but me is talking about these “top dog” items from only 10-15 years ago. Why?
 
Last edited:
Interesting question. The why is that there is no current effort to make the public aware of these great pieces. No advertising, no reviews, no forum discussions, no active dealer interest. Why is there no effort? Very few people, except those like you and a very limited select, well informed folks know how good these pieces were. And if a potential buyer of this gear is interested, how would they know (other than magazine reviews) who to reach out to for reliable information. And buying used gear is always a dubious proposition. Condition, parts availability, lack of warranty and who to contact if service is required are a few of the issues any diligent buyer would need to resolve before purchase. Bottom line. I agree there is great sounding gear made in the past but very few people are interested in taking the risk (ending up with the proverbial expensive boat anchor) and buying.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top